FarmerTy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm not a chemist, but wouldn't a big swing in mag create some kind of corresponding calcium swing? i.e., the MG is used to help keep higher levels of CA, so a drop in MG would lead to a drop in CA ???I've only encountered that once you start dipping below NSW level Jolt. Not sure the chemistry behind it either but just sharing what I experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'll double check the calcium but last time the mag dropped the calcium didn't seem to be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Calcium is at 470 so pretty much normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 That's good. What I've read is that basically the MG is what allows CA to be in higher than normal solution concentration. And, if MG gets low CA starts to precipitate and supposedly there can be an Alk swing too. Not sure how long it takes things to correct once MG is corrected, and not sure how low MG needs to go before there is an issue. I guess I would not recommend any experiment to measure all that though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yeah, I'd rather not experiment with that. All I know is a few times now when my Mg was below 1300 a few of my SPS were unhappy. They lost color and partially bleached in small areas that were not getting as much light. In the previous times it happened, simply raising the Mg back to around 1400 solved the problem and the SPS colored back up within a few days. This time I had a few SPS lose color, but for some reason the Cali Tort decided to RTN base up. Now, as stated, it's inconclusive that the Mg was for certain the cause... There's many things that could be the cause, but it is on the list of possible causes. The only things I can think of off the top of my head that may be causes: Magnesium swung from 1400ish to 1280 in only a few days after adding new media to the CaRx Alk did drop from 9.5 to 8.8 over a few days prior... Nothing terribly unusual for the system The Monti Undata that is fairly close may have declared a chemical war against it... Unlikely as they have battled a few times, and it always ended with some small spots of tissue death, not massive RTN on the bottom 1.5" of the coral. We dipped 2 of our zoas last night in Furan 2 then Hydrogen Peroxide - It's possible we didn't rinse well enough and that may have put some of those chemicals into the water - Again not likely as we rinsed them in 3 separate baths. Some critter is in there and messed with the coral It gave up on life. So as it stands, the Mg is coming back up (around 1350 this morning), Ca was 470 this morning, Alk was around 8.8 at the time we noticed the problem, it's back at 9.5 now, pH is normal, salinity is normal, temp is normal, ORP normal... Basically everything I can check checks out normal. I made 3 frags out of the coral, we put 1 back close to where it was, and the other 2 in the frag tank. This morning the 2 larger frags are fine, I forgot to check the 3rd. Everything else looked happy so who knows. Part of the fun of the hobby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 How often do you tend to check your alk, Ca, and Mg levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm going to have to go with it gave up on life. Looking at your distorted face through the glass every day can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yeah, I would be a pretty frightful sight! I'm not sure how Meg can take it. I generally try to test Alk and Mag daily, although admittedly I was being lazy on the Mg and didn't check it for a few days. Ca I only check maybe every few weeks when I do a full test on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BobcatReefer Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Que es RTN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Que es RTN?Rapid tissue necrosis. Sps can die really fast, unfortunately, without much warning. There's also STN, slow tissue necrosis, where the line of death just creeps along the coral taking much longer to kill the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 es Tissue Necrosis Rapido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Rapid Tissue Necrosis. It's when a SPS starts loosing tissue very fast, like it will consume the entire coral within 24 hours or less. It's easy to identify - the SPS looked fine yesterday, and today it's got a bunch of tissue missing - usually from the base up - and it's probably sliming / mucusing like crazy. Generally the only ways to stop it is to frag off the remaining good tissue, or use glue/epoxy and put some right where the good and bad tissue meet. I've always just fragged off the remaining good tissue and have a reasonable success rate with that. STN = Slow Tissue Necrosis. That's when a SPS looses tissue slowly, like over quite a few days. This usually isn't quite the emergency as RTN and many times is a precursor to something else being wrong. If it keeps progressing too far, fragging the good tissue or glue can sometimes stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BobcatReefer Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Muchas gracias Señor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 This shows the difference between bleaching and RTN... Click on the pic to get the full size. It's a bit hard to see, but on the Cali Tort it's tissue is completely gone from the encrusting base all the way to just short of where the main trunk starts to branch off. It was fine the day before, with no signs of stress or illness. Thus, RTN. On the tri-color valida in the background, you can see a small patch of bleached tissue on one of the main branches. That tissue is still alive and still there, but it has lost all of it's color which is why it's called bleaching. This coral should fully recover and regain it's color within a few days. I'll try to remember to take a picture once it's recovered so you can see. I suspect that is a direct result of the lower Mag than typical combined with that part of the branch does not get very good light because of the upper branches blocking light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 We introduced the coral beauty back into the tank and the time out seems to have worked! She and the potters are getting along pretty well. Funny enough the tang seemed to interject between a few little spats and has been keeping the peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Boo! One of the Cali Tort frags started to RTN today. So I thought I'd take a few pictures of what to do when this happens. Once out of the tank you can easily see the tissue death. So there was only 1 major branch that had all of its tissue in tact so I fragged off that branch using a pair of bone cutters and gave it a 10 minute dip in coralRx. After the dip I rinsed it in fresh tank water and glued it to a plug. Now we just wait and see if it pulls through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Something to keep an eye out for but I once got 3 mariculture colonies, dipped, and put them in my tank. The next day, all three started to RTN like crazy fast! I fragged what I could to try to save them but it was unstoppable. I ended up losing all of them. That wasn't the terrible part. The terrible part was either they had released a chemical signal into the tank that set off some of my other acros or whatever bacteria/virus that was attacking them and causing them them to RTN so quickly was making its rounds into my tank. It ate up a good portion of my aussie shortcake and a few other acros before it ran itself out. Still wasn't able to identify what it was but perhaps something may have been introduced with your recent maris you got? And maybe cutting them up caused them to be stressed and start this whole chain reaction of random healthy frags RTN'ing? I know I've never experienced RTN from low Mg but then again, my Mg has never dropped that fast either so maybe a moot point. Just wanted to mention just in case. Hope all of this craziness stops for you soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 I had considered that the maricultures could have brought in something... It seems unlikely, but I'm not ruling out anything yet. I'm not too worried as everything else seems happy thus far, but I'm definitely keeping a watchful eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Some videos with the Macro lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Some videos with the Macro lens. https://youtu.be/rC3aZdTR8dY https://youtu.be/Epn6Ai9T_hs Nice! I can't wait to play with the macro lens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BobcatReefer Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 mmmmm...Acro pron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 mmmmm...Acro pron! LOL! I should make a video of all macro shots and put it to some cheesy pron music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 So after about 6 hours of work I managed to buff out the entire front panel of the tank. There were a couple a good scratches that were driving me nuts so I finally decided that I should probably just do the whole thing... I used 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, and 2000 grit directly on the scratches. Then I used 2500, 3000, 5000, 7000, and finally 9000 grit on the entire panel. My arms are tired! Laying out the sandpaper 400 600 800 1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 2000 3000 Done! Accidentally smashed off a frag of my Miyagi Tort. Doh! The skimmer did a great job of quickly pulling out the acrylic particles. Made for some interesting looking skimmate. I may have to look around and touch up with the 5000, 7000, and 9000 but for the most part it looks good as new! Yay acrylic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 That was pretty nerve racking to watch and it wasn't even my tank! The results were stunning though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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