Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hi I'm planning on converting my 14g Biocube to sw. I'm a little overwhelmed on where to start; I am taking the fish to a shop in NW Austin who offered to buy them on Friday. Other than that though I'm not sure where to start. Do I use the water that I already have and add salt, then start its cycle, or do I completely scrap the water and buy/mix more? Do I wait till a certain point in the cycle to put live rock in or put it in right in the beginning? What substrate would you recommend? My future plans for it are mexican turbo or nerite snails, hermit crabs, emerald crabs, scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp and eventually a pair of ocellaris and and an anemone... and of course coral! Pictures of the setup are posted below; let me know if ya'll have any ideas for changes to the setup or livestock lineup; also the middle compartment contains bioballs if that makes a difference to anyone. Thanks for any input! Gonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Scrap the water in the tank. Starting out I would probably just buy premix from the LFS and take some time to research which directin you want to go with salts (which brand, do you want to use an RODI unit, etc.)Take everything out of the tank and give it a good rinse. You can put the LR in right away. There are a ton of opinions on substrate, but just about everything will work with caveats (too fine and it blows around, too course and there are some animals that won't thrive). PC lights will be OK for most simple corals (zoas, toadstools, etc), but you may have some difficulty with an anemone. PCs also tend to put out a pretty good amount of heat for light, so you may want to consider a lighting change if you're going to get more serious about corals/anemones. I removed the bioballs in my BC29, they just trap too much crud and aren't easy to clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 I'm sorry if this is obnoxious, but I'm not familiar with the lingo yet. what does "LFS, LR, RODI and PC" mean? Also I am planning on switching them out pretty soon just still figuring out what direction to go. I think they should be fine for the cycle stage right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Welcome. Reef keeping has more acronyms than the government. Here's a pretty comprehensive list list: http://www.austinreefclub.com/page/FAQ/_/saltwater-101/reef-keeping-acronymns-r12 You'll get familiar with them really quick since most people won't type everything out. Most likely you'll want to scrap everything in the tank and add some type of aragonite sand and either live or dry rock. Water is one of the most important parts of SW tanks. Most of us won't dare use tap water for any part of it. We use RO/DI with is reverse osmosis / deionized water for mixing salt and for replacing evaporated water. With your tank size, depending on stocking, you would be looking at changing anywhere from about 5 - 10 gallons per month. Typically you would do weekly or bi-weekly changes. You wont need to do changes at all until the tank is cycled though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 What's yall's opinions on LiveSand? My friend who convinced me to go SW thinks its overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Also when ya'll are talking about scrubbing everything, do ya'll just mean bare scrubbing with a brush or finding a aquarium safe soap to really wash it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Live sand is probably unnecessary but it saves a ton of time in washing dry sand. In my current tank I rinsed dry sand for more than an hour and I still had enough dust that I couldn't see anything in the tank for a few days. For such a small tank, I'd grab a bag of arag alive special grade sand and just be done with it. Rinse and scrub with pad that wont scratch the glass and I would think you'd be fine. You could add vinegar and let it soak for a day or two if there's any gunk that's tough to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Adding live rock and the arag would be the first thing i would do....Then seed tank with something that will start a cycle going(look up seeding a new SW tank on google and you will find hundreds of examples) but i just use a raw shrimp and a bottle of bacteria.....Test, test, test...until there are no traces of ammonia, or nitrite.....add some snails and a few things for your clean up crew... watch to make sure ammonia or nitrites dont build back up...Then add your first fish and test your parameters everyday or so to make sure your system is keeping up with your bioload( ex. no ammonia or nitrite spikes showing) In my opinion i would wait at least a month if not more to let your system mature and balance out... then add a second addition...I wouldnt put more then a pair of clowns and mabe a small goby in a 14g but that is my opinion...i didnt clean anything except the algae when switching my tank from FW to SW Edited February 4, 2014 by kingjames420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gonzo, With everything there are competing theories. I tend to prattle on a bit because i try to offer ideas behind methods and usually on both sides. i lack experience, so much of it is from research with an aspect of common sense. So take it or leave, i ain't gonna be offended or go into toldya sos. Water: Most people, including water you by from the LFS (local fish store), will be RO/DI or equivalent. Basically, distilled water. But, there are many people that have been using tap water successfully. I used RO/DIish water for the first 6 months. Then I got lazy. Most of the concerns with tap water is what comes in with it. once you get your biological filter set up, any ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and phosphates may be eliminated naturally. while i have been using tap water for a few months, i recently had a macro algae die off (went sexual to try to save itself) because i had too few nitrates and phosphates. of course, there will also be a concern about heavy metals and poisons. i don't think i have a biological method for fixing that, so it is just a calculated risk. 10 years of FW tanks w/o poisoning from water + inherent operator laziness = let's risk it. but, i think i am in the minority. Live Rock: Here's the deal. Live Rock will come with all the bacteria to help speed up the cycle. But, it is also going to come with other more sensitive life (which some are bad, so there is a risk equation there too). If live rock is added immediately you will get a faster cycle, but the ammonia/nitrite spikes may kill off these added guys. So, if you put it in immediately you may kill off some of the hitchhikers. it's a trade off. i got some starter rock from a club member and put it in within the first week. the only hitchhiker i could see is a brittle star of some sort. Live Sand: live sand is great. there are two types. there is the expensive stuff you buy in bags. i have heard, and common sense seems to back up, that you bag wet sand and sit it on a shelf for an extended period of time, most of what you are paying extra for is now dead. i'd go with dry sand and get various club members to share/trade you scoops of sand to get your dry sand seeded. or sometimes people forum selling off tanks will sell their live sand that you can go pick up. i would offer you a scoop of my sand, but i am starting to think it is a bit barren and plan on trying to get some scoops to readd life to it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grog Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 "live sand" from the shelf is not so good. "live sand" from a diver is great and really live but you will pay for air freight. Two very different products. If you don't want to spend the $, get dry. Don't waste your money on the off the shelf "live sand". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As you may have surmised, ARC is not short on methods of how to operate a reef. Be careful of mixing methods and advice. They are not all compatible. 1. Do you want your tank to be a showpiece that wins The Tank of The Month contest. It comes with a price tag, both money and time. 2. Do you want to relax and enjoy the undersea world of Jacques Cousteau with minimal expense of time and money? I choose #2 and after more than 40 years in the hobby, I have not regretted my decision. To illustrate my point, let us return to your question about which water to use. As you live in San Marcus, your municipal water supply is most Iikely ground water from the Trinity Aquifier. Get a water analysis and you will find that it is very similar to limewater, which is high in calcium and magnesium. These minerals are used up by the inhabitants of the reef tank. From my perspective, why remove them with an expensive RO/DI unit, then add salt mix to bring up the mineral content of the water. It does not make cents to me. Before you make a commitement of time and money, go look at different systems and talk with the owners about how they maintain there systems. I live fairly close to you, come visit and chat. While the details have not been finalized by Mike Frame, ARC is initiating a subforum of Mentored Reefkeeping. I have been told by some that I make a good mentor. In anycase, I enjoy conversation and meeting people. Laissez la bonne temps roulee, Patrick Castille, Mgr, Aquaculture Ranch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 No reason a low tech lagoonal tank couldn't be tank of the month. I think it comes down to scaping as much as anything. I'd vote for something like this all day long: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Is that an Amano tank ? Really well scaped, but if it's Amano I doubt it's low tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Is that an Amano tank ? Really well scaped, but if it's Amano I doubt it's low tech I don't think it is. Trying to find the original thread. Definitely has the look though. Definitely going to be some trimming required to keep it in that shape. Would hate to see what happens if all the caulerpa goes sexual in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Looks like I have another subject to be researching! lagoon tanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 There are plenty low tech lagoons that look better than the one illustrated. Go to reef central and look at display macro lagoons. Paul B. has operated the same macro lagoon tank for 44 years. His low tech system will win Tank of the Month on any hobbiest forum. John Tullock as a PhD Marine Biologist got my attention with his book, The Natural Reef Aquarium. His advice was less technology/more biology. There is a lot of advice that is self serving to promote equipment and sales of equipment. Enjoy the ride. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 To give the less vocal minority a voice, here is the most recent tank of the month on Reef Central. http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/142-tank-of-the-month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 To give the less vocal minority a voice, here is the most recent tank of the month on Reef Central. http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/142-tank-of-the-month Less vocal? Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Laissez la bonne temps roulee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 UPDATE! Had an exciting weekend! Made it to the RCA first Friday sale and picked some arag and a few lbs of live rock rubble. Missed the Niko's grand opening but stopped by Aquadome today and picked up some premixed saltwater. That, mixed with the DR and testing supplies given to me by Planeden and the tank water, sand scoop and cheato by Bluemoon means that the tank is off to a great start! Cleaned the FW tank on Friday with some vinegar and water, let it sit for a few days and placed the sand bed, and dry rock a few hours ago . Tank is still a little murky but will still post pics. Majority of the LRR is in the sump on top of some bioballs. Thanks for all the help! Advice is welcome. Gonzo (Sorry about the re-post, accidentally posted this in welcome thread first) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Déjà vu. Exciting start. Just want to mention that you may not want to have the rock leaned against the glass back there. It just makes it a pain to clean around or grab things that fall. Glad that big rock fit in there, though. It looks good. Much better than it did in my closet. I'm sure it's happy to be wet again, too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Here it is after the silt settled and with full light. Can't wait till all chemicals are balanced and I can get my cleaner crew! (Don't know why the pictures are sideways) Edited February 10, 2014 by Gonzo59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Déjà vu. Exciting start. Just want to mention that you may not want to have the rock leaned against the glass back there. It just makes it a pain to clean around or grab things that fall. Glad that big rock fit in there, though. It looks good. Much better than it did in my closet. I'm sure it's happy to be wet again, too . It's actually not leaning on the glass but the plastic partition from the tank and sump. I never had a problem with algae growing there when it was FW but I was using a algae inhibitor that I won't be using anymore. Do you still think I should move it? I don't mind moving it, I would just need to find a way to glue the rocks together because the wall is helping to wedge them together right now. Edited February 10, 2014 by Gonzo59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Déjà vu. Exciting start. Just want to mention that you may not want to have the rock leaned against the glass back there. It just makes it a pain to clean around or grab things that fall. Glad that big rock fit in there, though. It looks good. Much better than it did in my closet. I'm sure it's happy to be wet again, too . It's actually not leaning on the glass but the plastic partition from the tank and sump. I never had a problem with algae growing there when it was FW but I was using a algae inhibitor that I won't be using anymore. Do you still think I should move it? I don't mind moving it, I would just need to find a way to glue the rocks together because the wall is helping to wedge them together right now. it's up to you, really. whether it is glass or plastic, algae covered or not (personally, i'm not too concerned with algae on non-viewing panels), it still just makes maintenance hard there. getting flow around it can also be tricky so you may end up collecting crud back there. do i think you should move it? shrug...it's your tank. i don't think it will be detrimental to your tank, but it may make things a little tricky. it would bug me not to be able to get a gravel vac back there, even though i rarely use them. but, i also make sure that all my walkways are at least 1 vacuum cleaner wide...maybe it's just habit. hopefully, someone with more experience will chime in here. as with everything, i'm sure there are a variety of opinions on this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just took my first readings of water, it goes as follows: Salinity- 1.0195 (probably due to rinsing sand and having a small system) PH- Around 8.1 (due to low salinity?) Ammonia- Little less than 1 ppm Nitrite- 0 ppm Nitrate- Little More than 5 ppm Topping of with RO/DI saltwater until salinity gets higher Is it weird that I have Ammonia and Nitrate and no Nitrite? Isn't Ammonia broken down into Nitrite which in turn is broken down to Nitrate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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