subsea Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Niko, why do you suspect your methods of reef keeping are not working. What about your system indiucates a problem to you? Aside from talking about about other peoples methods, what is your goal in reefkeeping and where are you at this time. In my opinion, five months does not make a cycled tank. Patrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Regardless, it is up to each member to determine the value and legitimacy of advice they receive both here and in the real world. Personally I like to gather as many opinions about a subject as I feel necessary to draw my own conclusions. There are some opinions I come to respect and trust more than others. Shane has some tremendous knowledge and has been very successful with his reefing. In no way am I bashing him or his business. Im sure we could all learn a lot from him. However, like someone else said here, not in so many words, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I like seeing everyone's perspective and learning something from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko's Reef Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 Subsea, I don't really have a goal with this tank. Just trying to keep healthy fish and corals in this tank and awesome water parameters. Really dont want to add anything else to it. Im in the process of setting up another tank for seahorses. That 1 will only have a goal of keeping healthy seahorses. I'm just concerned about the rise of my nitrates in that 1 tank because corals. It's gotten as high as 20, but lately has been around 10. Thats a pretty big increase from 0 where i had been for 4 months. When i started this post i was just concerned about that. I was just confused, because I got a file fish and tested a businesses water and the reading were 80-100 ppm on my kit. I just purchased this kit 2 months ago. Something isn't adding up. I'm really have been kind of busy lately, so I wasn't able to get a new kit. Had to get a marriage license today and my bachelor party is Sat. So the earliest I can get a kit would be Sunday. Hopefully I won't lose my mind till then worrying about the Nitrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I think ur worrying about it too much. Give it time , don't add anymore fish, use that start smart, and let ur system catch up with ur bio load. Coral doesn't increase your bio load, fish do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua-Dome Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Guess we have to post the facts again. Posted 16 July 2011 - 10:55 AM I’m sorry that some people try to translate things that may seem logical to them into fact, without doing any research. There are two basic types of “LIVE” bacteria products on the market for establishing beneficial bacteria in aquaria. They are both called live because they are NOT DEAD. But they are quite different in production, storage, shelf life, transportation requirements, etc. One form, which for the sake of explanation I will call LIVE live, is found in products like Fritzyme 360/460, Dr. Tims, formerly Biospira (I say formerly because after Marineland was sold I can not speak with certainty of BioSpira at this time). LIVE live cultures of nitrifying bacteria are active cultures in liquid form, they have a much shorter shelf life measured in months, keeping them refrigerated maximizes their shelf life. These products are sensitive to temperature extremes, and must be kept cool and shipped cool. The other form I will call DORMANT live. This is the form found in all non-refrigerated products that claim to cotain beneficial nitrifying bacteria, such as Stabilty, Cycle, Fritzyme 7/9, and I believe TLC, and Live sand/substrate products. They are products in which the live bacteria are kept in a dormant stage for the very purpose of maintaining efficacy over longer periods of time, over wider temperature ranges, by companies well versed in the transportation issues of distance, climates, truck temperatures, and such. Live sand is viable in the bag for at least 2 years, and temperatures into the 130’s. Although it is true that prolonged exposure to temperatures above 130 will in effect pasteurize the product, these extreme conditions are not reached in the normal course of a wholesaler’s deliveries to a retailer. I have no reservations about selling DORMANT live products, I trust most of the companies that produce nitrifying bacterial products, and I trust all the ones we carry, including live substrates. Gary - Austin Aqua-Dome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 The other thing that hasn't been addressed is the water from Shane's being higher in nitrates than your water. That was probably a correct test on your part of his Livestock tanks water. Fish only tanks can run with higher nitrates than reef tanks. Either way don't ever put lfs or shipping water into your tank just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko's Reef Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 Thanks Gary and Rory for those 2 answers. Those are 2 specific questions that I was still in limbo about. Dave, after reading some of the post I have an understanding of the situation. I totally agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Subsea, I don't really have a goal with this tank. Just trying to keep healthy fish and corals in this tank and awesome water parameters. Really dont want to add anything else to it. Im in the process of setting up another tank for seahorses. That 1 will only have a goal of keeping healthy seahorses. I'm just concerned about the rise of my nitrates in that 1 tank because corals. It's gotten as high as 20, but lately has been around 10. Thats a pretty big increase from 0 where i had been for 4 months. When i started this post i was just concerned about that. I was just confused, because I got a file fish and tested a businesses water and the reading were 80-100 ppm on my kit. I just purchased this kit 2 months ago. Something isn't adding up. I'm really have been kind of busy lately, so I wasn't able to get a new kit. Had to get a marriage license today and my bachelor party is Sat. So the earliest I can get a kit would be Sunday. Hopefully I won't lose my mind till then worrying about the Nitrates. Get married and pass a good honeymoon. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cMidd Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 IMO, 20ppm nitrates won't hurt anything. don't worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dapettit Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Regarding testing I use Elose and Seachem as well as API. I've been happy with API and the times I've compared it to other test kits haven't had a difference in readings, I do not hang on to any of my kits for years generally replacing them every year - year 1/2. As far as frequency I also use the ol' eyeball test quite a bit but in an established tank corals can aclimate to conditions that a new coral might not be able to deal with so it's a good idea to test regularly. How long typically does a test kit last i.e. Seachem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 How long typically does a test kit last i.e. Seachem? I don't know? My test kits usually ride around in my van so are subjected to a wide range of temperatures so I don't expect the reagents to last as long as they would if maintanied in an air conditioned room. I know I've seen expiration dates on some kits but it's been so long since I looked I couldn't say and right now I'm not setting down my coffee and getting up to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko's Reef Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Thanks all for the input. Going to purchase a new testing kit within the next few days, hopefully tomorrow. If it still reads high, I'm going to try the method Patrick posted. Everyone has been a huge help on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michae52 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I have purchased most of my live stock from shane. He might not have the largest selection of livestock or drygoods, but everything that he has, he uses and his livestock survives. As far as ARC is concerned ask him why he doesn't care for it and then make up your mind. He has good points. To be honest with you, we talk all the time and he really doesn't care about this site, but who does everyone want to drill their tank or build a sump for them. The man hears the same stories all the time you can take his advice or not on how to fix them. People are upset that he doesn't give discounts, why should he, he is trying to make a living and besides it gets old everyone wants an education, but doesn't want to pay the tuition. Buy things at his store and make it worth his time to talk to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Corals and fish are considered "fragile".....I dont believe this. I do agree that constant "shifting" of their living area makes them frail and die. However, gradual increase in all the "forbiden" levels of parameters means nothing. They adjust well and learn to adapt to their surroundings. They may change in color, or may not do what you want, but at the end of the day, they survive just like we do. You have to ask yourself, "what do corals eat?"....what makes them tick? Thats when you will be successful. Not what you need to prevent, but what you need to increase. A tank with some nitrates but a low nutrient content can grow some of the best SPS as long as its STABLE. Not a roller coaster. If they are used to NO nitrates then yes at the first sign of them they will appear a lot different and not look so happy. This is not the opportunity to freak out and TINKER/ADJUST everything. Leave it be, let it level out and let them adjust. They will make it just fine. No different than you do when 35 is stand still and your used to rolling 70mph down the corridor. You just learn to deal with it. Or you move north of the weird place....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko's Reef Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Well, don't know what caused the nitrates to go down, but I'm back at 0 . Maybe it was my Bachelor Party .. Everything looks great. I did add a file fish and a dose of smart start. Last week I did a water change and changed the socks, carbon, pads, and media out of the filters as well. Maybe it just took time to adjust? Want to add 2 peppermint shrimp this week. Thanks for all those who advised to go with the flow and ride it out, and listened to me cry yall a river . Luckily my schedule was busy enough to make me keep my hands off. Having the draft and playofffs start had the majority of my free time tied up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I have purchased most of my live stock from shane. He might not have the largest selection of livestock or drygoods, but everything that he has, he uses and his livestock survives. As far as ARC is concerned ask him why he doesn't care for it and then make up your mind. He has good points. To be honest with you, we talk all the time and he really doesn't care about this site, but who does everyone want to drill their tank or build a sump for them. The man hears the same stories all the time you can take his advice or not on how to fix them. People are upset that he doesn't give discounts, why should he, he is trying to make a living and besides it gets old everyone wants an education, but doesn't want to pay the tuition. Buy things at his store and make it worth his time to talk to you. Per the admins, we should probably just let this conversation die. Everyone has an opinion, and people can vote with their dollars if they so choose. May the best reef store win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Per the admins, we should probably just let this conversation die. Everyone has an opinion, and people can vote with their dollars if they so choose. May the best reef store win. I hope they all win. I like having options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 How long have you been in the hobby? When I first started I tested all the time and always freaked about my nitrates. After a while I started being able to tell if my nitrates were getting high by looking at a specific coral. As some folks have mentioned already, the tests are highly variable and easy to mess up. I am still waiting for one of the Hanna Checkers to be a Nitrate test. It is true about the filter media. If you have it in there, it will trap stuff and cause nitrates to build up. That's why you clean your filters though. As long as you keep up with it, it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe its not the best method or it's the sometimes "too late" method, but I also rely on my tank inhabitants to let me know what's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Per the admins, we should probably just let this conversation die. Everyone has an opinion, and people can vote with their dollars if they so choose. May the best reef store win. I hope they all win. I like having options. I've seen quite a few of them come and go in my short existence on this planet. Perhaps we need a nostalgia thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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