FarmerTy's 215 gallon - No Water Changes SPS Tank

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

Just now, FarmerTy said:

I didn't stick with the SOP, it only ended up being a step dipping process. I blame the little guy for always rushing me.

That's when you sub out existing work to third party vendors to complete the work more safely. Come on Ty! You haven't been out of the industry THAT long

[fightinghippo]

Oh, I guess I should update when I have a chance.

So, got marine velvet from a frag last month. Didn't realize that .......

Sorry about the fish loss Ty [emoji20]. Atleast I get attached to fish more than corals.

I have only been doing Bayer dips so far for corals. Does this do anything for velvet or other common known diseases that can pass through coral frags?

[jolt]

4 hours ago, FarmerTy said:

Whoa! He's alive and also comes bearing safe advice!  Thanks bud!

Thanks Jolt!  So you are able to accomplish this with only 1 gate valve?  Or did you add a gate valve to both other drains?

I have gate valves on primary and secondary, not on emergency.  Honestly, they are tuned wide open and I just adjusted the height of the standpipes and elbows inside the overflow and the GPH of my vectra return pumps to get things where I wanted them

[jolt]

Really sorry about your fish, I know they were your pets.  

I know someone else who definitely introduced ich via a new frag. Been thinking a lot about the pros/cons of running my frag tank permanently fishless for coral quarantine.  And then never transferring ANYTHING from the frag tank except coral flesh glued to a fresh plug all dipped in bayer, interceptor, and flatworm exit.

These days I cringe even adding clean up crew.  And I won't buy any CUC that I see in a holding tank with fish.  And I've been running 6 weeks QT with full prazi and copper regimens on EVERY fish.   It's exhausting and very difficult on the fish, but what else can you do these days?

 

[Good Greef]

1 hour ago, FarmerTy said:

Absolutely.  It really is down to the reefer and how they want to handle their system.  Its all about risk mitigation.

For my thousands of dollars of livestock, its worth it to QT, and if I had QTed the frag, I wouldn't have dead fish right now.  So in my book, it makes even more of a point to QT. 

I think those that don't QT are playing Russian roulette personally.  With the velvet epidemic at the wholesaler level and its increased presence in this hobby, the old methods of just tossing fish in are not as relevant now as they were before.

Changes are even being made at the LFS level with the velvet epidemic.  More are choosing to start treatment at the store level now as they are seeing its occurrence increased over the last couple of years. Its the only way to keep fish alive to even have any to sell.

I get what you're saying and QT is obviously considered the "gold" standard in reefing. 

My final thought is merely that one can spend an inordinate amount of time like you have, on setting up a proper QT and not enjoying your display tank. But even then, its almost likely that at some point there is human error, laziness, or frankly things you cant control that may introduce ich.

Having a family and kids are one of those main things we cant control. Also, id be willing to say that doing a QT is also playing russian roulette. You're betting that youll never cut a corner for yrs, youre betting that putting 5 tangs in a tub for months wont stress them to death.

Sorry. Not trying to argue anything its just such an intriguing concept with such vast opinions.

 

[Jen_McG]

9 hours ago, FarmerTy said:

Oh, I guess I should update when I have a chance.

So, got marine velvet from a frag last month. Didn't realize that was what it was immediately as I haven't added fish for 7-8 months at that point so just figured ich from the stress of moving. I had already moved my fish out for ich 2 months ago and they were sitting in the tub.

I had put 5 fish back into the DT to test it. They immediately got velvet which I misdiagnosed as ich. Seeing them get spots so quickly, I figured the tank was still crawling with too much ich so I pulled them back out and put them back in the tub, unknowingly spreading the velvet to the rest of the fish in the tub.

Lo and behold, all fish had velvet at that point and before I realized what was happening (velvet can kill in a matter of days), I lost 3/4 of my fish stock, including most of my angels.

So, I'm left with 6 now. Small baby regal, blonde naso tang, 2 clownfish (they survive everything, including the first velvet attack 3 years ago), flame angel, and flame hawkfish.

I lost my emperor angel, majestic angel, flame wrasse and pyramid butterfly fish. I had previously lost all my purple Anthias in the move, lost my powder blue tang and potter's angel to ich, and lost my yellow sided fairy wrasse and midas blenny to my sea cucumber nuking the tank.

So... Its been a rough fish transition with the tank move.

Fortunately, the corals are growing gangbusters so once I get the all clear on velvet, there will be a huge frag sale as I try to build up funds for a fish restocking party.

What's left...

So sorry about your fish Ty, I'll make sure to participate in your frag sale to help with your restocking party ?

[Reburn]

I'll make sure to bring fish for cash to restocking party.  Let's start with some cross hatches :).  Don't worry Ty I have your back your green benjis are good enough for me.

[enginerd]

Sorry about your livestock loss Ty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[+BobcatReefer]

7 hours ago, jolt said:

I have gate valves on primary and secondary, not on emergency.  Honestly, they are tuned wide open and I just adjusted the height of the standpipes and elbows inside the overflow and the GPH of my vectra return pumps to get things where I wanted them

Curious about the mechanics here.  Do you cut several standpipes, maybe 1/8"-1/4" difference and then just swap them out til one works like you want it?  I find it impossible to trim anything under about 3/4"-1" w/ any kind of clean cut. 

[+BobcatReefer]

8 hours ago, FarmerTy said:

At the end of the day, I can always blame the union! 

[Reburn]

13 minutes ago, BobcatReefer said:

Curious about the mechanics here.  Do you cut several standpipes, maybe 1/8"-1/4" difference and then just swap them out til one works like you want it?  I find it impossible to trim anything under about 3/4"-1" w/ any kind of clean cut. 

Use a chop saw.  Take a saw blade off a time. Saw blade thickness is 1/8"

[+BobcatReefer]

Well, I guess I'll put one of those on the Santa list...  

[jolt]

11 hours ago, Reburn said:

Use a chop saw.  Take a saw blade off a time. Saw blade thickness is 1/8"

I have an old fashioned mitre box.it has a clamp.  I can do 1/4" at a time.  Reburn laughs at me because its 35 years old hardware ...  But I love it. Its like this one on "Old Tool heaven":  http://oldtoolheaven.com/miter-boxes/miter-boxes.htm

[Reburn]

9 minutes ago, jolt said:

I have an old fashioned mitre box.it has a clamp.  I can do 1/4" at a time.  Reburn laughs at me because its 35 years old hardware ...  But I love it. Its like this one on "Old Tool heaven":  http://oldtoolheaven.com/miter-boxes/miter-boxes.htm

I don't laugh at you exactly

my miter box just happens to have a motor on the blade.

[FarmerTy]

21 hours ago, Gig 'em @ NDstructible said:

That's when you sub out existing work to third party vendors to complete the work more safely. Come on Ty! You haven't been out of the industry THAT long

I would have but the 3rd party vendor is always traveling!

21 hours ago, fightinghippo said:

 

Sorry about the fish loss Ty . Atleast I get attached to fish more than corals.

I have only been doing Bayer dips so far for corals. Does this do anything for velvet or other common known diseases that can pass through coral frags?

 

 

Thanks Raj!  I really can't say, as I Bayer dipped the frag, but it didn't work for me at least.  It could have been a freak accident though.

20 hours ago, jolt said:

I have gate valves on primary and secondary, not on emergency.  Honestly, they are tuned wide open and I just adjusted the height of the standpipes and elbows inside the overflow and the GPH of my vectra return pumps to get things where I wanted them

Thanks for the tip Jolt!

20 hours ago, jolt said:

Really sorry about your fish, I know they were your pets.  

I know someone else who definitely introduced ich via a new frag. Been thinking a lot about the pros/cons of running my frag tank permanently fishless for coral quarantine.  And then never transferring ANYTHING from the frag tank except coral flesh glued to a fresh plug all dipped in bayer, interceptor, and flatworm exit.

These days I cringe even adding clean up crew.  And I won't buy any CUC that I see in a holding tank with fish.  And I've been running 6 weeks QT with full prazi and copper regimens on EVERY fish.   It's exhausting and very difficult on the fish, but what else can you do these days?

 

It truly is exhausting but when you have fish stock like yours, it would be terrible if they died from velvet or something else you could have prevented.  So I feel your pain and with you on the journey.

14 hours ago, Jen_h said:

So sorry about your fish Ty, I'll make sure to participate in your frag sale to help with your restocking party ?

Woohoo!  Any excuse for a party!  Even if it's a restocking party!

13 hours ago, Reburn said:

I'll make sure to bring fish for cash to restocking party.  Let's start with some cross hatches :).  Don't worry Ty I have your back your green benjis are good enough for me.

Don't peddle your fish at me!  I'm too poor!  Unless you take dirty diapers and spit up as payment!

13 hours ago, enginerd said:

Sorry about your livestock loss Ty.


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Thanks Francis!

[FarmerTy]

I get what you're saying and QT is obviously considered the "gold" standard in reefing. 

My final thought is merely that one can spend an inordinate amount of time like you have, on setting up a proper QT and not enjoying your display tank. But even then, its almost likely that at some point there is human error, laziness, or frankly things you cant control that may introduce ich.

Having a family and kids are one of those main things we cant control. Also, id be willing to say that doing a QT is also playing russian roulette. You're betting that youll never cut a corner for yrs, youre betting that putting 5 tangs in a tub for months wont stress them to death.

Sorry. Not trying to argue anything its just such an intriguing concept with such vast opinions.

 

I think it helps to summarize my thoughts after a couple years of disease management through the years.

 

First 10 years in the hobby, buy a healthy looking fish, make sure it eats at the local fish store, acclimate it to my tank, and toss it in.

 

Next 2 years... Let's try more expensive fish which are sometimes either a tad more sensitive or territorial in nature.  Oh wait, these tangs will fight if I introduce them in this order, or these tangs have no resistance to ich, or these angels will eat softies, etc.

 

Last 2 years... Whoa, can't keep Achilles or powder blue tangs other than going ich free.  Let's go ich free!

 

Summary of my thoughts during this whole process.

 

1) What I did the first 10 years is out the window.  Disease at distribution wholesalers where all LFS get their fish has had major disease issues lately.  The simply throw it in has a much higher chance of introducing disease now.

 

2) Ich free is not worth it and neither is keeping a powder blue and Achilles together in a densely populated tank.

 

3) Ich is not a disease I'm worried about.  I'm deathly afraid of velvet, brook, and bacterial infections, all which can wipe out a healthy population of fish in a matter of days.

 

4) LFSs use either chloroquine phosphate or copper in their tanks, it helps pretreat but the flipside of that is unless the fish is in the medication for the correct amount of time, it will not get rid of the disease and will simply mask it so that when you bring it home and don't medicate, it will rear its ugly head at that time.

 

I don't follow the analogy of playing Russian roulette with QT.  If for instance, I get the "bullet" and slip on my QT once, at worst, I'll be at the position of everyone who doesn't QT at all.  That doesn't mean instant death for all fish, it just means one made it through improperly.  That still leaves me with 90%+ of my fish that were QTed properly.  Its like... Would I want to walk into a room with 100 people and 90% of them have tuberculosis, or would I want to walk into a room where 1 person out of 100 has tuberculosis.  I don't see how the 1 person is playing with fire... There's still risk but much, much lower.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your use of the analogy.  In any case, it is always safer to QT.

 

Perhaps you are just applying it in the scenario of ich free, which I don't wish to attain anymore.  That is just too regimented and I don't want to lose sleep at night wondering if I let a drop of anything in my tank that could have ich.  My QT now is to prevent plagues of velvet, brook, and bacterial infections.  Acclimate, observe, treat if necessary, add to the tank.  It is quite simple actually, throw the fish in the tank, watch it and get it to eat.  If something doesn't look right, treat it.  If it is fine after 4 weeks, toss it in.

 

The main lesson I learned from this is I need a coral QT too, which is simple to setup as well.  And maybe go back to the FarmerTy 13 dip extravaganza for frags.  Haha.

 

 

[Good Greef]

Always glad to hear your thoughts. You are right, all my comments were pertaining to the 100% "ich free" scenario. Didnt know you believed there was a gray area in the process, and that either its no drops of water or bust.

 

I will also be using a 40g "intro tank" before I introduce any new fish to my new build to make sure they are eating, etc. And ill bayer dip all frags i add like I have been. But if I see a spot of ich in my display, I probably am not gonna catch all my fish and go fallow. Ill just feed alot.

 

[+brian.srock]

So walk into a room with 99 sick people or walk into a room with just 1 blood thirsty zombie either way the 99 were infected as well and the virus is airborne. You need to now QT yourself.

[FarmerTy]

29 minutes ago, brian.srock said:

So walk into a room with 99 sick people or walk into a room with just 1 blood thirsty zombie either way the 99 were infected as well and the virus is airborne. You need to now QT yourself.

I'll start piking zombies in the head and then look for a nice island I can roam when I turn.  Something with a beautiful fringe reef.

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

I'm glad you're adopting the hippie wholistic QT process of fish like me [emoji1] I still don't believe in proactive treatment of diseases that may or may not be ailing the fish, that only stresses a fish in the acclimation process that has already gone through a ton of stress. We don't walk into a hospital or emergency room and automatically get chemo treatment, a handful of antibiotics, and steroids shoved down our throats just because other people have come into the hospital needing that. No! You bring them in, observe, and if treatment is needed then treat them. No use in bombarding fish with all kinds of chemicals and compounds that stress them out when it's not necessary. Just my two cents

[FarmerTy]

2 hours ago, Gig 'em @ NDstructible said:

I'm glad you're adopting the hippie wholistic QT process of fish like me I still don't believe in proactive treatment of diseases that may or may not be ailing the fish, that only stresses a fish in the acclimation process that has already gone through a ton of stress. We don't walk into a hospital or emergency room and automatically get chemo treatment, a handful of antibiotics, and steroids shoved down our throats just because other people have come into the hospital needing that. No! You bring them in, observe, and if treatment is needed then treat them. No use in bombarding fish with all kinds of chemicals and compounds that stress them out when it's not necessary. Just my two cents

Well, somewhere in between hippie and the anal QTer I was.  Prazipro and TTM weren't really invasive but I can see your point to just let the fish be and acclimate a bit before going into the tank.

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

Well, somewhere in between hippie and the anal QTer I was.  Prazipro and TTM weren't really invasive but I can see your point to just let the fish be and acclimate a bit before going into the tank.

Yeah, TTM isn't, maybe just stressful from movement. I do usually treat my fish with prazipro when they come in, the symptoms aren't as easy to identify and like you said not as stressful on the fish as copper or other mess can be.

[FarmerTy]

Big week. After losing so many fish to velvet, my wonderful wife watched the little guy as much as she could to give me time to get the tank in order.

I plumbed the frag tank finally into the display.






I hung mounts for the lighting, which I'll be using my old LED/T5 light combo that used to be on the main tank for the frag tank. After running it yesterday with just the Ocean Revive LEDs, I think I'll ditch the T5s for simplicity.


Randomly, my ATI fixture wouldn't fire up two bulbs. Whenever I tried to mess with the bulbs, smoke would start coming out of the fixture. I took it down and fortunately for me, my DIY retrofit T5 setup on the old light setup has ATI ballasts on it so it was a straight swap to get me back up and running.

[FarmerTy]

Hooray frag tank! [emoji4]




Captive-raised long tentacle fungia plate


Some coral shots in the display

[FarmerTy]

Fungia mother colony pre-haircut

 

Post haircut

 

Baby fungia plates are the best!