nvrEnuf Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 first just a bit of background: I have a 46 BF and 12 gal sump. 75% of my live rock is from my last tank. Which was "inherited" and of unknown age, but obviously not well taken care of. So, lord knows how much built up PO came with that rock. Ever since setting the new system up I have had problems with red algae. Increased flow, added CUC, added multiple types of macro, did water changes until I had a second bloom, ran the tank for 6 weeks with no fish or feeding, nothing helped. Then I came across the ATS debate...to grow poo or not to grow poo!?!? Well, I ran across a video of a guy who set up an ATS in a bucket of RODI water...and it grew algae with no feeding and @ 0TDS...which convinced me to try it; here is a synopsis of what happened since: Week 1: I seeded the ATS with red and green algae from the overflow; noticed PH became more stable Week 2: Some growth on ATS; no need to kalk this week week 3: more growth, red established, some green. No kalk this week, PH increase from 8.1 (normal) to 8.2 Week 4: signifigant growth, cleaned glass one less time this week, no Macro algae growth, skimmer seems lighter in color, no kalk, PH 8.3 Week 5: ATS almost covered mostly green, increase in pod count possible, did not clean glass this week, skimmer color to light green instead of black for sure, no kalk, PH 8.3 Skimmer reduced to 12 hrs/day Week 6: ATS ready for first cleaning, PH stable, increased pod count for sure, Macro algae all but dead, corals more vivid, wrasse not as aggressive at feeding time, red and green bad algae diminishing from tank. Now, this is a short term experiment, but based on the initial results, I will continue. I have noticed one potential side effect: I have a rock with 2 morphs of zoa that has 75-100 polyps on it. I bought it 7 months ago with 15 polyps. As of a week ago (when algal growth stopped everywhere but the ATS) it started showing signs of distress, and as of right now has 30% of it's polyps closed for 48 hrs or more. all other zoa's and pally's seem to be fine, but even the frags of this rock in other areas of the tank are distressed. I can only hypothosize that the cleaner water is not thier cup of tea. At this point I am going to set the ATS from 24 hrs of light to 18. I eaxpect over the next month the cyno and etc will be erradicated from the tank completely. I had always planned on having a macro or two growing in the display for a tang eventually, but I guess I am okay with Nori instead. Cleaning my glass only every other week is AWESOME! Here is what I am unclear on: why does the ATS promote such high pod populations? when I turn my flow off they litteraly "ooze" out of the ATS to get into the sump. Is it the high O2? any input appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 prime breeding grounds, lots of algae to ingest, with minimal predator threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I thought that, but don't understand how that is different than my sump. There is still plenty of algae and no predators in my sump. Yet, I have noticed a migration of population from the sump resivor (which always had seemingly plenty f pods) to the ATS... why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What is ATS? I also have persisting red algae in my tank and have to clean my glass often. Would love to rid myself of it. Can you share some links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I believe it is an algal turf scrubber. You can probably Google it for some good examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks Jeeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks Jeeper. Here's one someone sent me. Seemed like more trouble than I wanted to do at the time. But, maybe I should have . not as much as changing all the rock and sand, though. http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1687-The-new-Upflow-Algae-Scrubber-(UAS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What model are you using or did you do a DIY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 mine is a simple DIY: I was lucky enough to have three holes in the bowfront I bought, so I took the second overflow line and made it the scrubber line.<br /><br />1: add ball valve<br />2. cut 1/2" return line at desired height and splice in 1/2" to 1/4" elbow.<br />3. cut 1/4 PVC to length<br />4. cut and insert mesh (as seen on you tube)<br />5. assemble and run!<br /><br />currently I only have one side lit. If the skimmer is pretty much rendered useless then I will probably redesign the entire sump and make it such that all overflow water is scrubbed (if I can that is, it's a pretty big feat) as well as light the screen on both sides.<br /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Do you have before and after phosphate readings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I thought that, but don't understand how that is different than my sump. There is still plenty of algae and no predators in my sump. Yet, I have noticed a migration of population from the sump resivor (which always had seemingly plenty f pods) to the ATS... why? well it really boils down the the rapid growth rate of your algae. Small sprouts of algae are going to be easier for the pods to ingest. Your scrubber is likely more dense than the sump as well. But it could also be as simple as a more stable breeding ground for them. I know on my sumpless system, I have pods like CRAZY on the 'DIY' scrubber i have built into my HOB. WAY more than in my sump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grog Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 prime breeding grounds, lots of algae to ingest, with minimal predator threats. Areas in my system where there are crazy algae growth (overflow teeth, etc.) pods are equally crazy. When I clean the teeth I usually shake the pods off into my DT. Maybe not the best practice but I find it fun. My point is I'd agree with esacjack here. Safe spot and a ton of food = pod population boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 So, in an effort not to hyjack JeeperTy's build thread I am posting an update on my ATS to this thread. It's been another few weeks and I think I have the picture thing down so this should serve to answer questions I am being asked on Jeeper's thread... Since Jeeper would like to try and ATS of his own I offered to seed a pad for him. Since there was further interest I decided to document a cleaning session and start a large enough seed pad to be able to take multiple cuttings. Here are the pics: The FTS was taken awhile back. Notice the algae on the gorgonians. My wife bought me this HUGE sea fan as a present not having the first clue what she was getting me in to (nice thought, hap hazard choice) Thus began the true algae war. I thought for sure I would loose the piece but relish a challange so I figgured I would do my best. I cranked up the skimmer, loaded up the GFO reactor, reduced photoperiod and feeding to a minimum and still saw little results (probably because the tank is still young and okay I didn't rinse the crushed coral substrate enough I've got it!) Anyway I installed the ATS. About two months later now and you'll have to wait another hour or so to see the FTS but the algae is GONE. So much so that I have lost my largest emerald crab and the remaining two fight over the tiny bits of algae that try to grow in a soft spot of current here and there. So, without further adue PICTURES!!!!: FTS three to 4 weeks ago Current ATS set up Algae Growth notice the polyp extension now! This guy pretty much stays like this 24-7. I don't feed anything, my mandarin seems to keep enough detritus suspended to satisfy the gorg's. FTS to come in a few hours when lights are on and everything is open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 perhaps an obvious answer, but you have a hole in the pvc (more than one hole?) to let water trickle down the mesh? is the flow slow enough that you don't get any splashing? i wonder if i can come up with an inefficient enough one that i can have some macro in the tank and fuge but no hair algae . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 I cut a slit down the PVC with a dremel, at this point hair algae lives in the slit and makes for nice even flow. I tried drilling holes first, but there wasn't enough pressure to make it to the last few holes. The slit is much more even flow across the length. Here is the FTS from today. you can see no algae on the gorgs in the back corners, and I really can't remember the last time I cleaned my glass...I think it really says something when I need to clean my glass more from barnacles than algae!!! I still have a bit of algae in the sump, but it is slower growing and tougher variety...dragons breath and grape caulerpa mostly...mainly to disipate flowand help keep the miracle mud in the sump. I haven't noticed ANY growth lately and have succomb to the fact I am going to have to have another tank to keep Tang food in! BTW, I haven't dosed for alk in over a month...I am at 8.3 for the first time ever without chems. MG and CA uptake seem to have leveled out some as my post dose measures are now perfectly consistant also for the first time. I dunno if this is just the tank coming into being now almost a year old, or if it has to do with the ATS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Here's a build thread I did for an ATS back in 2009. It's all built but was never plumbed into my system because I just couldn't find a way to do it at the time. It's still sitting on the shelf in my garage, may be time to finally plug it in. Thought you'd appreciate the design. http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/7348-my-turf-scrubber/?hl=turf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 That design is great! The exact reason I am thinking about rebuilding my sump! want to create something more enclosed, and that doesn't ploute as much light. My major complaint is that too much light comes from the back of the cabinet at night. I've adjusted to photoperiod to make it better, but I am picky! Thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 So after reading about the ATS and wondering, refugium. is this a smaller version or am I missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 So after reading about the ATS and wondering, refugium. is this a smaller version or am I missing something. Self contained, light/noise/splashing are limited, and the idea was to use actual "turf" algae versus the range of common macros like chaeto that people often use in refugium. While a refugium can provide "refuge" to all sorts of critters, the turf scrubber is dedicated to scrubbing and thereby producing algae that is easily harvested. But yes, in short, an ATS is sort of a specialized refugium as discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 That's a good article thogh I don't agree with thier sizing...my scrubber (along with everyone I have ever seen) is NO WHERE near the same size as the display! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grog Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Water column looks much cleaner now too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 In an effort to rid myself of the red hair algae and generate some pod growth, I put together a quick DIY upflow scrubber for the fuge as an experiment. I'm more interested in the pod breeding to feed my mandarin. Installed it about an hour ago. I used a simple bubble wand, but may need to get a larger stone type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Did you run the light 24/7 until it seeded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 yeah, 18 hrs now. your scrubber looks good! I think you'd like something to dissipate the bubbles, but then I can't see the rest of your sump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So I don't get bubbles in the DT? I'll have to keep an eye on that. Maybe put a piece of plastic canvas where the water overflows into the return chamber? How do you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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