Hot Pink Lobo in trouble

[julespinkyd]

I need some help/recommendations. I have had this Lobo for a few years now. It was originally two heads and now has five heads. I just done a water change on Saturaday and today, I have noticed a couple of the heads with the bone showing. I believe it may be dying. I really like it and can not figure out what is wrong. I have had the tank for about 9 years and never tested the water or anything. I am thinking that it may be too high in calcium. The reason for it is because I recently started dosing it with calcium and iodide which I believe one of these to be the culprit. Does anyone have any experience with Lobo care. Can too much calcium kill coral. I have been doing research and the few people that have had issues like this have had all of there parameters to be normal but no one looks at the calcium levels when they have the issue. May someone please provide some insight. Thank you...

Edited July 8, 2013 by julespinkyd

[Robb in Austin]

I think I see the problem.

It's upside down. I suspect, based on this, that your lobo is Australian. I'd recommend returning it to its natural location and see if that doesn't perk it up.

In all seriousness, stop dosing. Too much Ca probably wont hurt. Iodine on the other hand can cause problems.

I'd do a water change, snap off the bad heads, and hope.

[victoly]

I need some help/recommendations. I have had this Lobo for a few years now. It was originally two heads and now has five heads. I just done a water change on Saturaday and today, I have noticed a couple of the heads with the bone showing. I believe it may be dying. I really like it and can not figure out what is wrong. I have had the tank for about 9 years and never tested the water or anything. I am thinking that it may be too high in calcium. The reason for it is because I recently started dosing it with calcium and iodide which I believe one of these to be the culprit. Does anyone have any experience with Lobo care. Can too much calcium kill coral. I have been doing research and the few people that have had issues like this have had all of there parameters to be normal but no one looks at the calcium levels when they have the issue. May someone please provide some insight. Thank you...

I really have doubts that calcium is the issue. Basically the worst thing that happens when you overdose calcium is that you can no longer dissolve any in the water column and it begins to "snow" or precipitate out of the water.

I don't know much about "iodide dosing" (iodine?), but if I had to guess, I'd first check your salinity and alkalinity. Since you don't test, you won't know if it was an alkalinity swing that caused your coral to be unhappy, but you could see if it's in spec. How big of a water change did you do?

How is the rest of the tank doing?

[Neon Reefer]

I really have doubts that calcium is the issue. Basically the worst thing that happens when you overdose calcium is that you can no longer dissolve any in the water column and it begins to "snow" or precipitate out of the water.

I don't know much about "iodide dosing" (iodine?), but if I had to guess, I'd first check your salinity and alkalinity. Since you don't test, you won't know if it was an alkalinity swing that caused your coral to be unhappy, but you could see if it's in spec. How big of a water change did you do?

How is the rest of the tank doing?

+1 on what Victoly said.

I would never dose without testing first. but I always test anyway and maybe you should as well at least for the foundation elements on a monthly basis at minimum. Only way i dose Iodide is in extremely low doses way below the recommended amount for my shrimp.. And he is right when he suggests looking at the rest of the corals, especially the LPS or brain corals if you have them, to see how the tank is in general doing. .

[julespinkyd]

I

I need some help/recommendations. I have had this Lobo for a few years now. It was originally two heads and now has five heads. I just done a water change on Saturaday and today, I have noticed a couple of the heads with the bone showing. I believe it may be dying. I really like it and can not figure out what is wrong. I have had the tank for about 9 years and never tested the water or anything. I am thinking that it may be too high in calcium. The reason for it is because I recently started dosing it with calcium and iodide which I believe one of these to be the culprit. Does anyone have any experience with Lobo care. Can too much calcium kill coral. I have been doing research and the few people that have had issues like this have had all of there parameters to be normal but no one looks at the calcium levels when they have the issue. May someone please provide some insight. Thank you...

I really have doubts that calcium is the issue. Basically the worst thing that happens when you overdose calcium is that you can no longer dissolve any in the water column and it begins to "snow" or precipitate out of the water.

I don't know much about "iodide dosing" (iodine?), but if I had to guess, I'd first check your salinity and alkalinity. Since you don't test, you won't know if it was an alkalinity swing that caused your coral to be unhappy, but you could see if it's in spec. How big of a water change did you do?

How is the rest of the tank doing?

I do about 15 gallon change every week on a 90G. The rest of the tank looks happy/healthy. I've added a picture of the tank to the top. Edited July 8, 2013 by julespinkyd

[julespinkyd]

Thanks for all of the recommendations. On one note, would doing a second water change so soon cause any issues? I typically do it once a week to a week and a half.

[victoly]

Thanks for all of the recommendations. On one note, would doing a second water change so soon cause any issues? I typically do it once a week to a week and a half.

You water change didn't seem drastic. If it were me, I'd measure salinity and alkalinity and see where you're at. Those are the #1 and #2 water quality offenders for coral health. Have you changed carbon lately? It doesn't look like there is anything next to it to sting it, and its been growing for a long time..... So I'd stake my claim on alk/salinity being the culprit.

CH

[julespinkyd]

Well my salinity is at 1.020 which is where I like to keep it. I typically keep it between 1.019 and 1.021.

[julespinkyd]

OK, I've just done a 10g water change. I am going to watch the progress or decline from here on.

[Timfish]

What are your phosphates?

[+etannert]

Check mag as well. LPS are Mag sinks.

[Wade]

That salinity seems awful low to me. Shouldn't it be closer to 1.024?

[victoly]

It's definitely on the low side of what must people shoot for. The issue there is that often times if you run your salinity low, your alk and cal will also be low unless you supplement with dosing.

Not really a whole lot we can do to diagnose if parameters arent measured.

[Wade]

It's definitely on the low side of what must people shoot for. The issue there is that often times if you run your salinity low, your alk and cal will also be low unless you supplement with dosing.

Not really a whole lot we can do to diagnose if parameters arent measured.

True enough.

@julespinkyd: What prompted you to start dosing Iodine and calcium? Was there something going on?

[julespinkyd]

It's definitely on the low side of what must people shoot for. The issue there is that often times if you run your salinity low, your alk and cal will also be low unless you supplement with dosing.

Not really a whole lot we can do to diagnose if parameters arent measured.

True enough.

@julespinkyd: What prompted you to start dosing Iodine and calcium? Was there something going on?

Thank you all for the input. I am grateful to have so many people that like to provide feedback/info. Well the only reason that I started dosing is because now I am beginning to truly think the LFS owner that I went to was trying to sell me something and I suckered into it. I will not mention names for respect but my tank had been fine until now.

In any case, I was not aware that my salinity should be as high as 1.024. When I first got into the hobby in San Antonio (13 years ago), a Petco rep recommended that I keep the salinity at 1.019 because that would allow the water to have more oxygen. I always thought that it was on the low side myself which is why I've kept it closer to the 1.021 range for so many years. I am glad that you guys mentioned this. I will begin to slowly increase it.

[Neon Reefer]

1.020 SG is fine for FO tanks but a reef tank needs are different and should be closer to natural sea water. Minimum would be the requirements of your inverts snails ect... which are 1.025, but most reef tankers like their SG ~ 1.026 or 35ppm.

[victoly]

Uhhhhh. Most reefers ? I suspect an ARC poll would disagree.

[Bpb]

I've kept mine at 1.024 for the past year or so an just supplement calcium and alk. I may bump it up to 1.025-1.026 though and see if that improves some coloration

[Planeden]

Uhhhhh. Most reefers ? I suspect an ARC poll would disagree.

no doubt. i have heard most reefers anywhere from 1.022 to 1.027. but, i've also heard 1.027 is WAY too high and heard that 1.022 is WAY too low.

shrug...wanna setup a poll and get the "offical" ARC most reefer?

[Neon Reefer]

Uhhhhh. Most reefers ? I suspect an ARC poll would disagree.

I can't say what an ARC poll would say or what SG most ARC members keep their "reef tanks" at. But I can say the rest of the world pretty much acknowleges that being close to or at the world's avg NSW SG of 1.026 SG is the best salinity level for a reef tank.

So let's get these numbers rolling in here. What do you keep your's at Victoly? I keep mine at 1.0255 -1.0260 SG.

[victoly]

Uhhhhh. Most reefers ? I suspect an ARC poll would disagree.

no doubt. i have heard most reefers anywhere from 1.022 to 1.027. but, i've also heard 1.027 is WAY too high and heard that 1.022 is WAY too low.

shrug...wanna setup a poll and get the "offical" ARC most reefer?

I'm on tapatalk and I dont know how to set upa poll. But is much rather do an actual poll than derail this thread.

[mFrame]

poll here.

Now back to our thread's topic.

[Neon Reefer]

I love the LPS corals and have probably studied them more than others by a 3X margin. The lobo is pretty easy w/ needs of moderate + lighting and moderate water flow. Although I have had mine in up 30X tank flow. I am sure none of these things have changed in the time you have been successful w/ your Lobo. I suspect the only thing that has changed is your water chemistry

IMO you have low salinity and therfore probably low foundation elements, and where LPS require for good health stable foundation elements of Ca, Mg and most importantly Alk. they also require good levels of trace elements such as strontium. With these lower SG levels, which by the way are OK if you are considered an expert reekkeeper and can manage these elements easily, make it difficult for the average reek keeper to be sure the levels are within normal ranges. Long periods of time at below needed levels cause corals to metl away. If you are not into testing and proper dosing then i would at least use only high quality salts like Kent Reef Salt or Tropic Marin Pro. Some of these more expensive salts have higher values and doing bigger water changes w/ these guys will help to stabalize higher foundation parameters in your tank. I would suggust 10% a week in this case.

Too expensive, well then i would go w/ at least weekly water changes of 5% and utilize a good all n 1 suppliment like Salifetrt. I use this product and have had good results. I beleive the recommended dosage is 5ml to 25 gal once per week minimum, or X2 weekly if needed or maximum of X3 per week. Without testing i would only dose the minimum. But I suggest to test all foundation elements at least X1 monthly. Let the LFS do it for you. Everyone likes to visit the LFS once a month. Right? Gotta see all the cool stuff. LOL

With that said you also need to look to other nutritional elements, and although symbiotic algae zooxanthellae hosted by the LPS will provide most of ithe needed nutrition through photosynthesis, it is pretty much proven that additional feeding of the LPS benefits it greatly. Foods like plankton or brine shrimp and the Lobo's most accepted food shrimp eggs (nutrimar ova). A good feeding response means your coral is either OK or has the ability to recover. Your corals can be trained to respond to feeding times.

Then there is the big bummer. For unknown reasons to even the most experienced reef keepers, LPS corals seem to just sometimes wither away for no apparent reason. They can go along for long periods of time and then just crash. Unfortunately this is comman with lobos. Even when other LPS in the close proximity stay well and healthy.

I think the best advice in your case has already been given here: 1) Raise your SG, 2) Insure your foundation elements are within normal params, 3) Check the pH, NO3 and PO4. And in addition I would say try to hand feed that bad boy and illicit a response from it. And in the end if a couple of the heads gets bad enouigh, remove them from the colony.

[julespinkyd]

Thanks for all the info. I will definitely be paying close attention to all you hard core reefers.

[julespinkyd]

I wanted to thank everyone that has provided their experience. It has been a few days since my coral was looking bad and after a couple of water changes and increasing my salinity slowly, my Lobo is almost fully healed. There is but a small pinhole that is still showing but seems to have a very thin film of flesh over it. Thanks to all, it looks like my lobo is getting happier.