Best way to water change?

[victoly]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

[subsea]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Absolute zero of nitrate is different than the average nitrate test kit reading zero. All coral require nitrate. Patrick

[ckyuv]

....as soon as you can, add a protein skimmer.

I didn't think I'd ever see you recommend this Patrick lol

[subsea]

....as soon as you can, add a protein skimmer.

I didn't think I'd ever see you recommend this Patrick lol

I agree with Victoly on this. It is a tool. I felt it applied for the specific circumstances. I had incorrectly assumed a large fish load combined with constant nitrate between 20-40. Macroalgae would also accomplish the same. However, the foot print of a protein skimmer is negligible compared to the volumn required by a macro filter.

Patrick

[victoly]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Absolute zero of nitrate is different than the average nitrate test kit reading zero. All coral require nitrate. Patrick

Ok fine, I've had measurable nitrates at zero, with the next increment on my test kit being 0.25 mg/l. Effectively zero.

[subsea]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Absolute zero of nitrate is different than the average nitrate test kit reading zero. All coral require nitrate. Patrick

Ok fine, I've had measurable nitrates at zero, with the next increment on my test kit being 0.25 mg/l. Effectively zero.

When you added the last sentence of effectively zero, you muddled up the point. The point is that hobby test kits are not accurate on the low end of the scale. However, the real point is that nitrate is required by symbiotic algae within the coral to produce food for the animal part of the coral to exist. The biology can not be separated.

ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.

Patrick

[Bpb]

My nitrates are also always reading zero. Granted I've not ever used a high resolution tester. Just three different brand new API testers and then the crummy dip sticks at the petco. I do have a large and diverse cleanup crew, filter socks, and display macro. For me, everything improved in color and growth within a couple months of reducing nitrates down from about 20ppm down to under 5 ppm. I attribute the zero reading to the testers margin of error as I only do about 15% water change a month and feed daily. Surely there's nitrate even if in a small concentration

[Planeden]

from what i understand, after failing chemistry several times, if you let the tests run for longer then the color will change if there is nitrate (or whatever you are testing for) present. if there is absolutely zero nitrate then you can sit the test on the counter overnight and the next day it will still be 0. but if it has changed color then there is nitrate, just not much. not sure why it matters, though. if everything is healthy, then everything clearly has enough of what it needs regardless of what the tests read.

[victoly]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Absolute zero of nitrate is different than the average nitrate test kit reading zero. All coral require nitrate. Patrick

Ok fine, I've had measurable nitrates at zero, with the next increment on my test kit being 0.25 mg/l. Effectively zero.

When you added the last sentence of effectively zero, you muddled up the point. The point is that hobby test kits are not accurate on the low end of the scale. However, the real point is that nitrate is required by symbiotic algae within the coral to produce food for the animal part of the coral to exist. The biology can not be separated.

ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.

Patrick

Would you prefer all intents and purposes over effectively? The accuracy of the Red Sea nitrate test kit is 0.125 mg/l, which for our purposes is very, very low. I'd say that the accuracy of this kit, at the low end, is very good.

The takeaway from your point is that some nitrate is necessary. The takeaway from my point is that while some exceptionally small quantity of nitrate may be necessary, less is almost always better than more. You get better color from just about everything when you get that nitrate down as low as possible.

[subsea]

As in everything, generalizations are best qualified. I have seen extradinars colors on many soft corals with excess of 5 ppm of nitrate.

Patrick

[subsea]

At present, nitrates are 45 ppm in this 75G Jaubert Plenumn with mud filter on bottom. I am behind on gravel vac with too many tanks coming on line. Some beginning cyno bacteria indicate phosphate in gravel. I have no other nuisance microalgae in this tank even at 45 ppm nitrate.

Patrick

PS

In this picture, the bright green colors on the GSP and Green Sinularia as well as the blue clam says tank health and vibrant colors does not necessarily correlate with nitrates below 1 ppm.

[Bpb]

That clam does look pretty killer.

[victoly]

Th

At present, nitrates are 45 ppm in this 75G Jaubert Plenumn with mud filter on bottom. I am behind on gravel vac with too many tanks coming on line. Some beginning cyno bacteria indicate phosphate in gravel. I have no other nuisance microalgae in this tank even at 45 ppm nitrate.
Patrick

PS
In this picture, the bright green colors on the GSP and Green Sinularia as well as the blue clam says tank health and vibrant colors does not necessarily correlate with nitrates below 1 ppm.

Not everyone is keeping just lps and soft corals. Many SPS, especially the pickier acros, are likely going to brown out at 45 mg/l nitrate.

[subsea]

Th

At present, nitrates are 45 ppm in this 75G Jaubert Plenumn with mud filter on bottom. I am behind on gravel vac with too many tanks coming on line. Some beginning cyno bacteria indicate phosphate in gravel. I have no other nuisance microalgae in this tank even at 45 ppm nitrate.

Patrick

PS

In this picture, the bright green colors on the GSP and Green Sinularia as well as the blue clam says tank health and vibrant colors does not necessarily correlate with nitrates below 1 ppm.

Not everyone is keeping just lps and soft corals. Many SPS, especially the pickier acros, are likely going to brown out at 45 mg/l nitrate.

That is true about most SPS. When viewing the livestock list of OP, I noted that she does not have nor does she intend to have SPS. I gave advice for her tank.

Patrick

[subsea]

That clam does look pretty killer.

I could not believe myself when I paid $50 for a clam 2" long. However, I am glad I did. I purchased it at Aqua Dome about two weeks ago. I just today removed a large Kena Tree and Waving Hand Anthenia from above this clam. They are directly under 250W MH at about 12" distance from a14K kelvin bulb.

Patrick

[Bpb]

That's been my reservations on getting a clam. I'm confident my tank could easily support one I'm just still on the cheap side of things and cringe at paying $$$ those bright clams usually cost. $50 seems like a good deal on one of those as they look to usually go for $100-200 online from some vendora

[Dustin Pedretti]

That clam does look pretty killer.

that is a pretty cool looking clam...been wanting one for a while

too expensive for my system though...not enough lighting either lol

[Bpb]

Dustin I think you could keep a clam alive. They have a brown Squamosa up at the store for $40. That's too much for drab brown though. If it were blue or green it would have been in my tank 3 weeks ago when they got it lol

[Timfish]

. . . are likely going to brown out at 45 mg/l nitrate.

Well, since I never test for nitrate I can't add much to this discussion except that we should be looking at ppb not ppm when considering levels too low. And this is probabIy going off topic even more but I would point out brown is a healthy color for corals indicating a good simbiotic dinoflagellate population. Another intersting point to consider is some corals are using simbiotic cyanobacteria fo fix nitrogen gas as nitrates for their simbiotic diniflagellates

[Timfish]

. . . add a protein skimmer . . .

I FEEL SO BETRAYED!

[subsea]

. . . add a protein skimmer . . .

I FEEL SO BETRAYED! :lol:

Get over it.

[ChaosFyre]

Chaos,

How often are you doing a 20% water change? Considering your large fish load, get used to it. As soon as you can, add a protein skimmer. It will perform 10% water change each week. If you are performing 20% water change each week to maintain less than 40 ppm nitrate, you have too much livestock or you have insufficient bio filtration. From your tank thread, I see your tank as overstocked with fish. Fish exert much biological load on a system.

Regards,

Patrick

I'm used to it, and I do it at least every two weeks. I prefer to change more than 10% if I'm going to change. Might as well. Not much difference to me whether its 20 gal or 40 gal. I don't mind the water changes, but sometimes its hard to convince my fiancee to help me. He hates carrying the buckets. I physically can't lift 20 gallons of water by myself. Even if I could, the bucket is too big for me to pick up alone. Not possible to use a dolly since there are stairs in the house. So that's why this thread I was concerned about the nitrates, wanted to do more water changes, and needed a way to do it myself.

I have a 90 gallon tank plus a 10 gallon wet-dry. I have 2 tangs, 2 clowns, 1 flame and 1 blenny. I didn't think that was overstocked? Its about 20 inches of fish. As for bio filtration, we have the wet-dry with all the bioballs, and I'm also using active carbon and a AC 110 hang on back filter.

I had my nitrates at 0 for the longest time, but I added 20 lbs of live rock, and also rearranged the tank and stirred up the gravel when I did it... I think I triggered a mini-cycle...The nitrates are within range, but I want them at 0 because of the corals. Even though I have soft corals, which don't mind (right?), I think its a good habit to keep nitrates less than 5 ppm.

All corals need nitrate to grow. Less than 5% would be a worthy goal. Zero nitrate would be detrimental for soft coral. Patrick

Wow holy cow. A lot of people have been telling me that it must be kept at 0 ppm. Can't tell you how many times I've been lectured on that. I didn't know nitrate was necessary for them to grow. I'll stick with less than 5 ppm, though I won't freak so much if its between 10-20 for a while.

[ChaosFyre]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

[ChaosFyre]

....as soon as you can, add a protein skimmer.

I didn't think I'd ever see you recommend this Patrick lol

I agree with Victoly on this. It is a tool. I felt it applied for the specific circumstances. I had incorrectly assumed a large fish load combined with constant nitrate between 20-40. Macroalgae would also accomplish the same. However, the foot print of a protein skimmer is negligible compared to the volumn required by a macro filter.

Patrick

Uh oh, did I miss something? The nitrates aren't constantly at 20-40. Actually, I freak if it is and do a water change. I like to keep it low, but like I said, there was a spike recently when I added some live rock and disturbed the sand bed. But just to be clear, it is agreed that I don't have too many fish, right?

1 purple tang, 1 mimic tang, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 snowflake clown, 1 black clown

[ChaosFyre]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Absolute zero of nitrate is different than the average nitrate test kit reading zero. All coral require nitrate. Patrick

Ok fine, I've had measurable nitrates at zero, with the next increment on my test kit being 0.25 mg/l. Effectively zero.

When you added the last sentence of effectively zero, you muddled up the point. The point is that hobby test kits are not accurate on the low end of the scale. However, the real point is that nitrate is required by symbiotic algae within the coral to produce food for the animal part of the coral to exist. The biology can not be separated.

ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.

Patrick

Hey Patrick, that's an interesting fact. Could you find some scientific documents supporting the statement? I'd love to read up on it.