Best way to water change?

[victoly]

....as soon as you can, add a protein skimmer.

I didn't think I'd ever see you recommend this Patrick lol

I agree with Victoly on this. It is a tool. I felt it applied for the specific circumstances. I had incorrectly assumed a large fish load combined with constant nitrate between 20-40. Macroalgae would also accomplish the same. However, the foot print of a protein skimmer is negligible compared to the volumn required by a macro filter.

Patrick

Uh oh, did I miss something? The nitrates aren't constantly at 20-40. Actually, I freak if it is and do a water change. I like to keep it low, but like I said, there was a spike recently when I added some live rock and disturbed the sand bed. But just to be clear, it is agreed that I don't have too many fish, right?

1 purple tang, 1 mimic tang, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 snowflake clown, 1 black clown

That stocking is fine for your tank size.

[Planeden]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

Gotta love the conflicting information.

But, I must say, it seems that anyone jumping up and down about 0 ppm may be mixing up nitrite and nitrate. I'd say if your nitrates are below 20 ppm and you have no pest algae, then you probably don't need to worry too much about it. I don't know that nitrates have much to do with your coral growth.

[victoly]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4368

Accuracy of 0.125 mg/l down to zero. It's nothing fancy, but it's worked well for me. I've verified this test kit with two other test kits and had zero readings as well.

[ChaosFyre]

from what i understand, after failing chemistry several times, if you let the tests run for longer then the color will change if there is nitrate (or whatever you are testing for) present. if there is absolutely zero nitrate then you can sit the test on the counter overnight and the next day it will still be 0. but if it has changed color then there is nitrate, just not much. not sure why it matters, though. if everything is healthy, then everything clearly has enough of what it needs regardless of what the tests read.

Its true about everything looking healthy being the important thing. However, you have to be wary because you can't always tell that something is lacking some essential nutrient until the critter consumes all it has in the environment and in its system... then overnight you may suddenly see a change. This is just a generalization, though I like to keep a close eye on my tank anyway.

However, I also want my corals to grow faster and have better color. I'm not sure what all effects that, but I assume water parameters have a lot to do with it, as well as lighting. I just got new lights a few weeks ago so I'm interested in water parameters.

Do you think maybe I have high phosphates? It was suggested in my emergency thread about rotting corals...

[ChaosFyre]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4368

Accuracy of 0.125 mg/l down to zero. It's nothing fancy, but it's worked well for me. I've verified this test kit with two other test kits and had zero readings as well.

How do you judge the readout? Is it color-based? I'm not sure I'd trust my own judgement on different color shades up to .125 accuracy lol. I already dither on readings when I read my nitrate test kit.... I always have to ask a second opinion from my fiancee. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there are electronic nitrate meters, like pH meters...Probably way out of my price range if there are. But I'm happy with my dinky little kit lol.

[victoly]

get on amazon and get yourself a phosphate test kit. I have both the red sea kit and the hanna checker, I recommend either one. Phosphate is a pretty critical parameter, and too much of it is problematic in most systems. Solutions include dilution (water changes), feeding less, GFO (my preffered method), and macro as export mechanisms. You definitely want to have some phosphate, but like nitrate, i believe you get the best colors and growth with levels that are barely detectable. I try to keep mine at 0.03-0.05 mg/l.

[victoly]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4368

Accuracy of 0.125 mg/l down to zero. It's nothing fancy, but it's worked well for me. I've verified this test kit with two other test kits and had zero readings as well.

How do you judge the readout? Is it color-based? I'm not sure I'd trust my own judgement on different color shades up to .125 accuracy lol. I already dither on readings when I read my nitrate test kit.... I always have to ask a second opinion from my fiancee. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there are electronic nitrate meters, like pH meters...Probably way out of my price range if there are. But I'm happy with my dinky little kit lol.

The color changes in scale, it's not just grades of a single color, it's like gray to blue to red to green i think. There is a digital monitor for nitrate, but quite frankly it sucks for our application. It's not all that useful for reefing because it's accuracy in the low range (where we want to be testing) is not good, the probe needs replacement regularly, and the unit is expensive.

[ChaosFyre]

get on amazon and get yourself a phosphate test kit. I have both the red sea kit and the hanna checker, I recommend either one. Phosphate is a pretty critical parameter, and too much of it is problematic in most systems. Solutions include dilution (water changes), feeding less, GFO (my preffered method), and macro as export mechanisms. You definitely want to have some phosphate, but like nitrate, i believe you get the best colors and growth with levels that are barely detectable. I try to keep mine at 0.03-0.05 mg/l.

I'm afraid I may be taking us off topic...But thanks so much for this information. I've found a kit I'm going to order RIGHT NOW lol. Also, I've been looking at phosban/GFO reactors, but I need a cheap one or a DIY. Any ideas? I may search the site for threads on this and start a new thread if I can't find anything. You can PM me the answer if you think I'm going off topic.

I don't want to make more work for anyone, having to move my posts around.

[Planeden]

from what i understand, after failing chemistry several times, if you let the tests run for longer then the color will change if there is nitrate (or whatever you are testing for) present. if there is absolutely zero nitrate then you can sit the test on the counter overnight and the next day it will still be 0. but if it has changed color then there is nitrate, just not much. not sure why it matters, though. if everything is healthy, then everything clearly has enough of what it needs regardless of what the tests read.

Its true about everything looking healthy being the important thing. However, you have to be wary because you can't always tell that something is lacking some essential nutrient until the critter consumes all it has in the environment and in its system... then overnight you may suddenly see a change. This is just a generalization, though I like to keep a close eye on my tank anyway.

However, I also want my corals to grow faster and have better color. I'm not sure what all effects that, but I assume water parameters have a lot to do with it, as well as lighting. I just got new lights a few weeks ago so I'm interested in water parameters.

Do you think maybe I have high phosphates? It was suggested in my emergency thread about rotting corals...

Egads, I just bought my first bag of salt. Needless to say, I lack experience. I'm just going by what I have read and pieced together. So perhaps my opinions should be taken very lightly. But, it seems logical to me that anything that filter feeds likes to have those nutrients in the water. I'm pretty sure that soft corals, maybe all corals, are filter feeders. As for what the eat, though, I haven't read.

Sorry if I seemed to misrepresent myself.

[ChaosFyre]

At present, nitrates are 45 ppm in this 75G Jaubert Plenumn with mud filter on bottom. I am behind on gravel vac with too many tanks coming on line. Some beginning cyno bacteria indicate phosphate in gravel. I have no other nuisance microalgae in this tank even at 45 ppm nitrate.

Patrick

PS

In this picture, the bright green colors on the GSP and Green Sinularia as well as the blue clam says tank health and vibrant colors does not necessarily correlate with nitrates below 1 ppm.

Beautiful pictures. I will keep this in mind and maybe stop worrying about my nitrates so much, as long as they're within range.

[ckyuv]

Ill second victoly on a phosphate reactor! While phosphate is good for corals and they need it to grow, to much and they won't show the bright colors many people strive for. It's a personal pref. just because corals are brown does not mean they are unhealthy but many people like myself love to have a tank with bright colors! Feeding less is also no fun so that's when the gfo comes into play lol

[victoly]

It's your thread, you pick where the topics go. In terms of GFO reactors, BRS is my go-to choice, as are many on this forum. They're pretty cheap, and a MJ1200 provides enough flow for 2 canisters in parallel (i run GFO.Carbon) Follow the instructions though! If you go overboard and add too much too fast (like I did), you can really piss off your corals with a drastic PO4 drop.

[ChaosFyre]

That clam does look pretty killer.

I could not believe myself when I paid $50 for a clam 2" long. However, I am glad I did. I purchased it at Aqua Dome about two weeks ago. I just today removed a large Kena Tree and Waving Hand Anthenia from above this clam. They are directly under 250W MH at about 12" distance from a14K kelvin bulb.

Patrick

Ah... give it some time, and maybe the color will dull. I'd love to see pictures of it in a couple months, just to reaffirm your theory/experience on nitrates and color.

[Planeden]

Can you go off topic in your own thread? Somehow it seems the OP is not likely to complain.

[ckyuv]

Yes and they sell equipment many other places than amazon we get some good deals through our sponsors!

[ChaosFyre]

Yes and they sell equipment many other places than amazon we get some good deals through our sponsors!

I'm all for good deals. How does that work? Discounts or something, if we prove we are a member of ARC?

[Planeden]

Yes and they sell equipment many other places than amazon we get some good deals through our sponsors!

I'm all for good deals. How does that work? Discounts or something, if we prove we are a member of ARC?

For most deals you have to be a paid member.

I suppose I should add more. It seems discounts are usually on the order of 10%, but it varies by company as does what is discounted.

Local retailers will ai for your membership card. Online venders check with the club to see if you qualify.

[victoly]

I'll just leave these here.

http://www.amazon.com/Hanna-Instruments-HI713-Colorimeter-Phosphate/dp/B003IKNJPC/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1369794559&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=hanna+phosphate

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Sea-Phosphate-PO4-Test/dp/B004876V5E/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1369794611&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=red+sea+phosphate

If you're an amazon prime member (HOW CAN YOU AFFORD NOT TO BE!!) it's a no-brainer.Of course, if you could find it cheaper from a sponsor, absolutely go for it.

[subsea]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4368

Accuracy of 0.125 mg/l down to zero. It's nothing fancy, but it's worked well for me. I've verified this test kit with two other test kits and had zero readings as well.

How do you judge the readout? Is it color-based? I'm not sure I'd trust my own judgement on different color shades up to .125 accuracy lol. I already dither on readings when I read my nitrate test kit.... I always have to ask a second opinion from my fiancee. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there are electronic nitrate meters, like pH meters...Probably way out of my price range if there are. But I'm happy with my dinky little kit lol.

The color changes in scale, it's not just grades of a single color, it's like gray to blue to red to green i think. There is a digital monitor for nitrate, but quite frankly it sucks for our application. It's not all that useful for reefing because it's accuracy in the low range (where we want to be testing) is not good, the probe needs replacement regularly, and the unit is expensive.

.

I have the Pinpoint Nitrate monitor at a cost of $240. I have not found it to suck. But then again, I have only had it for 6 months. There are three calibration fluid ranges, 1ppm, 10ppm and 100ppm.

Patrick

[ChaosFyre]

I've had my nitrates at zero for the better part of a year and my softies are doing well.

Lol okay conflicting information. Well, seeing as I've heard "at 0 or as close to 0 as possible or less than 5" I think all of those are alright. Because really, its hard to measure nitrates less than 5ppm. If you read 0, its likely anywhere between 0-5 unless you have some awesome testing equipment.

http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4368

Accuracy of 0.125 mg/l down to zero. It's nothing fancy, but it's worked well for me. I've verified this test kit with two other test kits and had zero readings as well.

How do you judge the readout? Is it color-based? I'm not sure I'd trust my own judgement on different color shades up to .125 accuracy lol. I already dither on readings when I read my nitrate test kit.... I always have to ask a second opinion from my fiancee. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there are electronic nitrate meters, like pH meters...Probably way out of my price range if there are. But I'm happy with my dinky little kit lol.

The color changes in scale, it's not just grades of a single color, it's like gray to blue to red to green i think. There is a digital monitor for nitrate, but quite frankly it sucks for our application. It's not all that useful for reefing because it's accuracy in the low range (where we want to be testing) is not good, the probe needs replacement regularly, and the unit is expensive.

.

I have the Pinpoint Nitrate monitor at a cost of $240. I have not found it to suck. But then again, I have only had it for 6 months. Patrick

Yeep! I work part time...7-30 hours a week, usually closer to 7. That's a month's paycheck for me. I know I know, I need a second part time job, but I'm going back for my masters in Biotechnology this fall, so its a bit of a dilemma. Who is going to hire someone who probably can't work for longer than 2 months? Don't say it: Domino's Pizza... lol. Okay, I'll come work for you. But seriously, for a get-through-college job, its not bad. They let you NOT work for 3 months, as long as you take 1 shift. Anyway that was way off topic.

But my point is, I need cheap!

[subsea]

In another thread today, Timfish acknowledged that he does not measure nitrate. Is that cheap enough? Patrick

[Bpb]

I also tested my nitrate for the first time after a year this week.

[ckyuv]

I have had tanks for 4 years now. I recently started trying my hand in sps and have started testing for the first time ever lol. I think with tanks like the lagoon style and other tanks like lps tanks and softies are awesome and much easier/less expensive on the hobbyist. I've noticed now thAt I'm trying sps it gets expensive so the live stock will for sure affect the cost as well!

[Timfish]

ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.

Patrick

Hey Patrick, that's an interesting fact. Could you find some scientific documents supporting the statement? I'd love to read up on it.

Here's one: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/986496?uid=3739656&uid=2133&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102053270343

Like I said ealier I do not test for nitrates but a common reason I have suspect people so often are advised to keep nitrates low is typically with measurable ammounts, as in 20, 40 or higher ppm or mg/l, is indicative of an aquarist that is not doing thier maintenace(but not necessarilly so). Corals and fish can tolerate surprisingly high levels of nitrates. One down side though is high nitrates can cause accelerated coral growth making for a weaker skeleton¹ While Delbeek and Sprung point out the DISSOLVED nitrate (NO₃-N) levels of natural seawater off Waikiki Aquarium measure 8 ppb (.008 mg/l) they reccomend for reef aquaria nitrate levels should be less than 1 ppm nitrate-nitrogen "ideally but need not be maintained so low"¹. Keep in mind if you are using a test kit that is measuring nitrate ion and not nitrate-nitrogen your reading is about 4.4x higher.

Phosphates and nitrogen (as ammonium and/or nitrites and/or nitrates) is essential and are limiting nutrients for plants and algae which includes the symbiotic dinoflagellates corals use. Too low and the plant or algae dies. This may not neccesarily kill the coral as they are capable of living without their symbionts. The mistake should not be made that reef systems in the wild are low nutrient systems, here's an interesting quote by Charles Delbeek "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks I can't help but be reminded of bleached coral reefs . . . Our crystal clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs"². This was echoed by Dr. Gerald Heslinga, ipsf.com, in a conversation with Subsea I overheard at NextWave 2011 in Dallas.

1 Delbeek and Sprung "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III pg 175 & 176

2 Coral Nov/Dec 2010 pg 127

[Bpb]

Good point ckyuv. I kind of feel like through all the testing methods, gear selections, and arguments about what parameters are appropriate for what, thing thing that the OP can take away is...

Your goals and your livestock will dictate your tank husbandry. There are more ways to keep a reef than there are to skin a cat. Just depends on your budget and what you want to stare at in your home. I'm one of the newer reefers on this site and of all the advice I've personally asked for and read for others, that seems to sum it up. I now treat reef keeping like a problem/solution scenario. I desire something for my tank, I make it happen within my means. I don't like this or that? I research and fix it for whatever way works best. There are a few obvious absolute right and wrong things to do, but most of it comes down to your specific goals. And then there is alot of gray area. Hope that helps