Really Confused Now

[Niko's Reef]

I'm so confused. I thought my nitrate was high and been looking into some methods. I went to an aquarium shop that is highly respected to get a file fish. I told him my situation. He told me everything was wrong. He said I shouldn't have any live sand, and to strip my filters and only run carbon in a bag, and add more live rock. He trashed this site and a lot of aquarium shops. Funny thing is that when I got home and tested his water, it was 4 times higher then mine. I thought what he said made sense, but now I'm dumbfounded. Is it the API test kit? It says other kits will run 4.4 times less. Nerve wrecking. Any advice is appreciated.

[victoly]

Not real wise to trash this forum. First off, can you briefly describe what's going on with your tank or link me if it's in a previous post ?

Secondly, what store is it so I can think twice before giving them business.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wesreyn]

I'm guessing you are talking about Shane. He is really set in his own ways and everyone else is wrong in his opinion. Although he has a really nice store, I don't even go in there any more due to his attitude towards anyone who doesn't share his point of views.

[Timfish]

There are two different reagents used to test for nitrates. The one that turns various shades of brown is multiplied by 4.4 to give the same reading as the one that turns various shades of red.

There is a WIDE range of opinions as to how to setup and run a marine system. To add to the confusion they all will work if properly maintained. I really like Delbek and Sprungs explanations and descriptions of the different methodologies in Vol III of thier "The Reef Aquarium" books. They give an unbiased and thorough explanation of the reasoning behind the methodology. Delbeck and Sprung also make rather disparaging comments about "Gurus" who advocate only thier own personal approach.

[Niko's Reef]

Fishy Busineess. I think this site is awesome, but he had me second guessing what my problems were. Luckily I don't rush to decisions. Yeah, the 1st time I went in there I left turn off. I just heard that he had something called Smart Start that works good. I went from 0 nitrates to anywhere from 5-20. Is it the kit? It states it runs 4.4 higher. It is perfect in all other areas and looks great. Just can't turn that 1 around.

[Niko's Reef]

Kind of liked getting rid of the the media and sponges and only having 1 layer of carbon in a bag ideal. Would have saved me a ton of $ and time. Said I would only have to change it 3 times a month. I kind of agree with the sponges. How does gas get released from it?

[jestep]

I will somewhat agree with them on API kits. I do use some of them myself, but they are more like a guideline than an actual measurement. Phosphate is completely worthless. Take 3 API nitrate tests out of different kits, all at the same time, and they all give different readings. They're still better than nothing, and are better than test strips, but I wouldn't write a research paper with them.

As far as the sandbed thing. There's a lot of research that suggests any sandbed in a small tank is a problem in the long run. There's a lot of successful tanks of every size with sandbeds of every size. My suggestion is to look at some of the scientific studies on deep, shallow, and no sandbeds, and make your own conclusions. Look at studies and examples online of successful tanks as well. There's success stories that involve just about every situation you can imagine, no matter how paradoxical they may be to some suggested study. I run about 15 lbs of live rock with a 1 - 2in sand bad, in a 50 gallon tank and it is by far the cleanest tank I've ever had. I don't have any algae problems and I'm overstocked by some standards. Conversely, in my 28, I had about 30 lbs of rock, bare bottom, low stocking, and the tank was an algae and nutrient nightmare. To blatantly say something is wrong is just completely arrogant.

My advice is always to do research online, in person, in actual paper studies, and make your own conclusions. Take everything slowly. Add something and observe the tank's reaction before you add something else. Stock lightly if ever in question because no matter what, the excess nutrients and waste are contributed by fish and not coral or inverts. But in all, do what you think is best and what direction you want to go in. As long as you are making decisions that are in some way logical, then you will probably succeed.

[Niko's Reef]

Makes sense Jesteep. Think I'm going to get a new test kit to start off. I purchased a few socks and carbon, but I'm going to hold off on that. Think that I will use the Smart Start as well for now. Thanks.

[+KimP]

I got myself into trouble using api kits back when I first started. Getting a good test kit will save you a bunch of headaches. Have you tested your water by any other kit? You may not have any problem at all...

[Juiceman]

Yeah I don't like API. And yes Shane is definitely a less is more kinda guy. Take the good and the bad. He has a lot of years of experience. He's a lotta live Rock, no live sand kinda guy. But it's from he experiences of their shipment. Live sand is not shipped like livestock, and so it's his opinion that everything is dead by the time you get it anyway. Idk. I've never used live sand so I wouldnt know. Take ur nitrate test and test separate tubes of ur water and I'll bet you get different results. I don't use my API anymore .

[Derek]

How long have you been in the hobby? When I first started I tested all the time and always freaked about my nitrates. After a while I started being able to tell if my nitrates were getting high by looking at a specific coral. As some folks have mentioned already, the tests are highly variable and easy to mess up. I am still waiting for one of the Hanna Checkers to be a Nitrate test.

It is true about the filter media. If you have it in there, it will trap stuff and cause nitrates to build up. That's why you clean your filters though. As long as you keep up with it, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Sherita]

Niko, are you having a specific problem with your tank? How long has it been set up? If you have livestock in it, how does your corals/fish/snails look? Test kits can freak us out unnecessarily. If everything in your tank looks good and is happy, do NOT make any sudden changes. Please tell us a little about your system and what, if any problems you are having. That will help us give you better advice.

[George Monnat Jr]

Yes, Shane is opinionated and rigid, but he's never steered me wrong. I was always leery about getting into SW, but he set me up with a 20gal that was successful and nearly maintenance free. Now I'm hooked (maybe I should blame him for that). He does know how to keep successful tanks, but I've learned not to get into debates with him. I still use the StartSmart as an emergency "de-ammonia-izer" at which it's great.

[Niko's Reef]

Kim, I haven't used a different test kit. I bought 2 API test kits that tested my reefs and water. I thought that was all I needed. Im a little scared. I think you are right about API effectiveness. I might not have a problem, or I could have a huge 1. What are some good brands? Rory,the thing with the live sand is what confused me. I've been researching tank setups, and I never seen that. However, when he told me that, it made sense to me. How can it be live if it doesn't go thru the same process as everything else? Just not sure if I feel like gutting my tank down. It's really doing good besides the nitrate test lately. They were great for awhile too. Was at 0 for months. I'm going to think simple for now. I'm thinking about the carbon thing too. The sleeves/pads thing make sense too. It does seem like it would trap it and unless you are willing to change it out weekly, it isn't going to work. Plus it would save me a lot of hassle and $.

[Niko's Reef]

Derek, I'm new to this. I've had the tank for about 5 months. I think that's why I'm scared. Think It's still not matured. I've been cleaning out the filters, but not once a week. I test twice a day, maybe I should lay off it. Sherita, I haven't had too many problems. I had a fish jump out, and a Tang that got beat up and didn't make it. Both of those instances were well over a month ago, when the Nitrates were 0. I had put some covers on it to stop that, but I recently decided to take those off. I have no fishes that are considered jumpers and all fish get along. I have 5 fish and just added a file fish today. I have four embarld crabs, probably 10 different types of snails, and a cleaner shrimp. Have corrals and an anemone. Had a couple of Zoa's that weren't opening up. I bought another heater and pushed up the temp to 80-81 and that fixed that problem. I have a 75 gal with a overlow box into a 20 gal sump with a skimmer. I have two canister filters underneath as well. Tank is clear and everything looks great. That's what I don't understand. From what I read, Nitrates will mainly harm corals, unless it's out of hand. George, I totally think Shane knows his stuff. Just don't know if I should scratch everything, and I didn't agree about this website. I found a lot of useful information on here, and no one has ever acted like an expert on any post to me.

[George Monnat Jr]

George, I totally think Shane knows his stuff. Just don't know if I should scratch everything, and I didn't agree about this website. I found a lot of useful information on here, and no one has ever acted like an expert on any post to me.

I couldn't agree more. Shane is an expert on his way of doing things, which is a good method. Just not the only one. Like Timfish said...

There is a WIDE range of opinions as to how to setup and run a marine system. To add to the confusion they all will work if properly maintained.

And I also think this site and ARC in general is an excellent resource.

[JamesL]

All I can say is that Tim is correct in that you will get opinions that run the whole range (and it is not just this hobby ... once you get this many people together it is bound to happen).

So now for my opinion

I would not "scrap" the whole thing just to remove the "live sand". If the tank is doing good, let it be. Nitrates accumulating in the tank is a natural thing. Adding a fuge or macro helps with this, but periodic water changes also reduce it.

[sifuentes31]

I've talked to Shane also and he seemed like a nice guy until he started advocating that his way is the only way. So i just played dumb and agreed to what he said. Felt weird after that. But like everyone said "it's his opinion!" As for me i'm just running a Rena XP in my 55 and i'm doing ok. I didn't go with Live sand because NO WAY live sand stays alive in a bag that's been sitting there for months. So i just went with regular play sand from Home Depot and it worked great. No Problems on my side. As long as you do regular water changes and clean out your filters you should be good. I clean mine one a month, sometimes twice if i'm in the mood. Like everyone said As long as the fish and coral look happy then your Cool Bud..

AND I THINK THIS SITE ROCKS!!!!!!

[AquaJohn]

I think what Shane was saying about sand is that crushed coral is a better substrate for your tank, When I was starting thats what he pushed on me. If I recall right it was something about the sand beds will solidify into a large solid brick where with crushed coral you can just use a stick to stir it up weekly and keep the "crud" suspended and let your filtration do its work.

I kind of thought well if you can stir crushed coral why not sand but I just smiled and said thanks for the info. He does have a wealth of info but its kind of like what my dad says take in what everyone says and use the good info and toss the rest .

And he is right about the internet in general you can basicly find strong cases for both sides of any argument. And alot of info out there is YEARS old and not the only way to do things anymore.

Anyways I still have a sand bed and all my criters like it. Also you don't get to have cool sand sifters if you dont have sand

[AquaJohn]

Oh ya how many people knew they were talking about Shane before they posted the store name LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sifuentes31]

OOOOH!!!! OOOOOH!!! I DID!!!!!

[FarmerTy]

OOOOH!!!! OOOOOH!!! I DID!!!!!

+1. I still like his store very much and him personally. I just stop talking reef with him and just chat about general stuff while I shop around.

[George Monnat Jr]

Oh ya how many people knew they were talking about Shane before they posted the store name LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<raises hand>

[Juiceman]

Oh ya how many people knew they were talking about Shane before they posted the store name LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did!!! Lol!

[Juiceman]

I love goin by and chatting! Always fun, take what you need like everyone said. If you have an issue with your tank and go to all 4-5 of the local stores, they will all say slightly different things. But then look at the differences between their show tanks. No 1 way to do this hobby we have!