Buy it dead, not alive

[+mcallahan]

As I've been helping people setup their new tanks, I've been advising people to buy dead rock vs. live rock (LR) for their new setups. People have been asking me why I say "buy it dead" so I thought I'd put it out there for the general audience.

The simple answer is selection - you get to decide what critters you want in your tank and which ones you don't. Live rock is great in that it comes covered with nitrifying bacteria -i.e. bacteria that converts ammonia (fish poop an pee) to nitrites and then to nitrates. However, it also comes with lots of stuff you might not see and you don't get to decide if you want it or not. For example, a lot of members have gotten LR that has aptasia and even majanos anemone on it. Majanos can overrun a reef tank in literally days if not tended to quickly. Even if you remove the ones you see, there could be several more that you don't see hidden in the LR that will eventually spawn new babies that will end up in your tank.

Then there are the bothersome creatures that you might not be able to see - zoa/montipora eating nudibranches, or even the feared Kraken worm that grow up to 4' in length and eat corals for dinner. (Not kidding, here is a link to some pics of a guy who pulled one out of his tank). You won't know these pests are in your tank until you start seeing corals disappear or bleaching which no reef keeper ever wants to see. These pests are even harder to get out because you can't always see them as they are very small and some only come out at night. Or in the case of the Kraken worm, you have to tear apart your whole tank to get to them.

With dead rock, what you see is what you get - no critters, no pests. I advise people to buy the rock that's been out in the sun for long enough that it's bleach white. No chance of cling-ons except maybe the backyard ant (would die in your tank quickly). No nuisance algae/anemones/worms/freaky crawly things. On top of that, you get to watch your tank mature as the rock will change from white to brown/green/purple as beneficial bacteria and algae grow.

So "buy it dead" and avoid the headaches of tracking down nuisance pests in your tank.

[Zarathustra2]

+1 for this post. I fully support buying it dead. One of the things I really liked about it was the flexibility in aquascaping. You can drill, tie, mount, smash, chip or do just about anything to dry rock and you just don't have the time to do it right with dead rock.

Even with my bio-diversity project where I am putting LR in from many sources I still don't have any really bad hitchhickers because most of my rock was bought dead from prof. Also, the dead rock is coloring up very nicely in just 2 months.

[barderer]

+2, its all about control.

[+ACampbell]

I've never had that kind of patience. I prefer to carefully choose live rock.

[GKarshens]

I'll argue for the other side. True live rock has bacteria, pods, and who knows what else that can be very beneficial to a tank that you will never get with dead rock. You can add all the chemicals and other things you want to try to add these, but you will never get the diversity. Also as Andrew said it would take extreme patience to set up your tank. It would take months for the tank to be able to support even a few fish without getting a cycle with each addition. We all know how hard it is to resist purchases and telling a newbie to start a tank this way is asking for them to start having Nitrate and phosphate problems very quickly. I realize we can't exactly mimic the ocean in our tanks, but I like to try to get it as close as I can. If you are that worried about hitchhikers cook the rock first. The bacteria and other critters will live and the anemones won't. As for the worm, I'll take my chances.

[OgreMkV]

I've done both and I agree totally with buying it D-E-D (dead).

40 pounds of dead rock and 9 pounds of live rock and my tank is fantastic. no nasty mantis shrimps.

[+dapettit]

Would you recommend adding dead rock to an existing system or when converting to a larger system. If so will you have to wait for the cycle before adding the inhabitants of the old system? I am asking because I will be picking up some rock this weekend and hoping to move the contents of a smaller system into a larger system at the same time.

Dave-

[+mcallahan]

Would you recommend adding dead rock to an existing system or when converting to a larger system. If so will you have to wait for the cycle before adding the inhabitants of the old system? I am asking because I will be picking up some rock this weekend and hoping to move the contents of a smaller system into a larger system at the same time.

Dave-

Dave-

Id especially add dead rock in your case.

You might see a small cycle, but I would not one so big that a water change and a bottle of stability wouldn't take care of.

Your inhabitants should be fine.

Let me know if you need help and if I can come film the transition.

[+dapettit]

I think Robin is going to start on it tomorrow afternoon. I need to get with prof to see if she can go by there tomorrow afternoon and get some rock. BTW, I have a bottle of the stuff Shane recommends. I''l get back with you on the time for filming.

Dave-

[+Daniel]

The problem with not using ANY live rock is you lose all the diversity that you could have. Using bacteria-containing products like Stability/Microbacter7/Polyp Labs/etc all add beneficial bacteria to accomplish various tasks, but they all certainly lack the diversity of plain ole' live rock. Sure, you risk adding some aiptasia or majanoes, but I've never been overrun by either of those. I may have lots of aiptasia that I cannot see, but if I can't see it, I don't care. Same with the pest worms, if I can't see their damage, I don't care.

Besides, if anyone is keeping corals, I'd be more concerned about red bugs, AEFW, pest nudibranches, etc. All the dead rock in the world won't help you out there. Pest hitchhikers can come just as easily from your corals as from live rock.

If there's a way to capture the same level of bio diversity (beneficial bacteria, critters, etc) from using dead rock, I'm game.

[+mcallahan]

You will not have as much diversity w/dead rock vs. live rock, but I've never heard anyone say, "my tank crashed due to lack of biodiversity" or "if I had more biodiversity, my corals would look better"

Bacteria/pods can all be added through products where you'll know you'll only get bacteria or pods, not other pests. Yes, you might not get XYZ bacteria, but as long as my levels are in check, I don't care what bacteria I have, only that it is doing its job.

D- dipping your corals before you put them in your tank will help immensely with importing pests. You can't ever kill 100% on your corals, but with careful inspection and dipping them, you'll get a large portion of the pests. I say esp. if you are only adding frags vs. colonies as the surface area on frags is much smaller = much better chance of killing the pest.

[Kkiel02]

I agree/disagree I would buy as much live rock in the beginning of setting up a tank. When I upgrade to a larger tank like my 180 I hit up prof for his dead rock. This is why and how. In the beginning I bought live rock from multiple places/people on the same day. This is because I would get the widest amount of diversity. The reason I add it at the beginning is because the nitrogen cycle will kill off the pest while the most the bacteria will survive. Once I then had pest free live rock with my 65 gallon I wanted the tang tank(180) so instead of risking pests I bought all dead rock and let the live rock seed the dead. I know I only have a few years experience but this has been the best biosecurityway while still giving me the diversity.

Ps I always qt fish and dip my corals to protect me that way.

[pbnj]

I agree/disagree I would buy as much live rock in the beginning of setting up a tank. When I upgrade to a larger tank like my 180 I hit up prof for his dead rock. This is why and how. In the beginning I bought live rock from multiple places/people on the same day. This is because I would get the widest amount of diversity. The reason I add it at the beginning is because the nitrogen cycle will kill off the pest while the most the bacteria will survive. Once I then had pest free live rock with my 65 gallon I wanted the tang tank(180) so instead of risking pests I bought all dead rock and let the live rock seed the dead. I know I only have a few years experience but this has been the best biosecurityway while still giving me the diversity.

Ps I always qt fish and dip my corals to protect me that way.

If you add all live rock to a new tank, it won't go through a cycle.

[overkill]

hmm a sterile system vs a natural system its apples and oranges. i prefer the natural system the only problem with hitchhikers is the aquarist. if you dont rush to set up a system you should have plenty of time to eradicate most of the (pests)?????? before you finish out the tanks coral and fish populations plan it out then plan some more. just how long does it take the average aquarium to reach a point when you feel its finished (6years ) i just recently added my last fish to my 180 gal soft coral tank nothing good happens quickly in this hobby. after six years i feel my tank has reached a balance and yes i have aptasia hence the final addition to the tank and the copperband is doing his job with gusto

[pbnj]

I prefer the natural system the only problem with hitchhikers is the aquarist. if you dont rush to set up a system you should have plenty of time to eradicate most of the (pests)??????

Great point....couldn't agree more.

[Kkiel02]

If you add all live rock to a new tank, it won't go through a cycle.

Mine did and most tanks do but it is much quicker. I had ammonia the first couple days then nitrites for two days then was good to go with the levels anyway. Also had a buddy just set up a bc 29 his did the same. Also my parents 55 gallon did almost he same but nitrites were gone a little faster. All these tanks were set up the same way as I talked about.

Everyone is going to have different ways of doing this. It's like asking people what's the best way to filter a tank. You will get tons of different answers from different people.

[knubs]

Hello,

New to the forums and to the saltwater aquarium scene. I just bought a setup from a member here and have had it running for about a week now. Just live sand up top and a little sand and live rock in the sump. I am ready (financially) to get some rock for the main tank, no clue where to start or look for rock. A local aquarium shop told me it would be cheaper to order rock online, I guess I just need a credible website to buy my rock from, or if anyone knows of a local Austin place to pickup some rock for a good price. I need about 55-60 pounds, would like to get it ordered or go grab some this weekend.

Thanks for any advice

[+mcallahan]

knubs-

prof on this forum has the best prices on rock in town. Its dead, good looking and affordable.

If you want to go the LR route, I'm in Los Angeles right now picking up rock for some members. $8/lbs and you'd split shipping with them.

[Kkiel02]

+1 for prof. He has some nice rock and great prices.

[+dapettit]

I picked up some live rock from prof last night. Good selection of sizes and peices.

Dave-

[mikedelgado]

I have used both , after a few years its hard to tell them apart with all the coraline,sponges and what not.Im not really scared of unwanted hitchikers or freaky algea. I have pretty much been stricken with just about everything and came out ok.Except for those aefw's , those suck! Call me a tree hugger but with all the pressure this hobby puts on our reefs I feel that the least I could do is use dry rock instead of wild collected lr.The only lr I would not feel bad about using is from those outfits in florida that mine limestone from land, place it in a designated spot in the sea and go get it a year or so later when its full of life.

[Rjohn]

As I've been helping people setup their new tanks, I've been advising people to buy dead rock vs. live rock (LR) for their new setups. People have been asking me why I say "buy it dead" so I thought I'd put it out there for the general audience.

With dead rock, what you see is what you get - no critters, no pests. I advise people to buy the rock that's been out in the sun for long enough that it's bleach white. No chance of cling-ons except maybe the backyard ant (would die in your tank quickly). No nuisance algae/anemones/worms/freaky crawly things. On top of that, you get to watch your tank mature as the rock will change from white to brown/green/purple as beneficial bacteria and algae grow.

So "buy it dead" and avoid the headaches of tracking down nuisance pests in your tank.

I really liked your advice about bleaching the rock outside. I have several pieces that have been in a rock garden for 3 or 4 months and are white as bone. I want to add them to my 72gal as I think I am short of rock. Should I dip them, soak them or in any other way prepare them for immersion?

[+mcallahan]

I really liked your advice about bleaching the rock outside. I have several pieces that have been in a rock garden for 3 or 4 months and are white as bone. I want to add them to my 72gal as I think I am short of rock. Should I dip them, soak them or in any other way prepare them for immersion?

You might wash it off in some old tank water (when you do a water change) to remove any dirt or spiderwebs. Otherwise I just throw it in the tank and let it go.

[Rjohn]

Excellent. Thanks.

[+dapettit]

Has the rock been sprayed with any kind of chemicals or had fertilizer spread on them? I would boil the rock (since it's dead) just make sure there aren't any terraforma critters hijacking in the rock.