OgreMkV

So far, I haven't found one vendor that has everything I wanted to order.

Well.. never mind then.

We missed the last CUC order and we can't wait any longer. We're going to be making a Live Aquaria order within three weeks. Any interest in a group order? You'd have to let me know and pay via paypal. We live in Round Rock and pick up would be here. It's free shipping if we get to $225. I've got $50 and some change so far. If there's sufficient interest, I'll add the information for payment and pickup and we'll get this going. We're planning on having delivery on the first or second Friday in March (the 3th or 11th) Thanks Kevin

Beautiful tank, Mike. Thanks!

No, it's not attached, but I'm just not sure how much I want to do that for an 'iffy' chance at keeping the eggs going. I'm glad of the eggs, it shows my tank has a good ecosystem. I'll try to keep them, feed with rotifer and the like.

So I read that Clown GOby eggs take about 4 days to hatch, then another 45 days to complete metamorphasis. All I have food wise that might work for them is frozen rotifers. They are buried up in the candy cane (as shown) and away from any powerheads and major flow. I'm wondering if it's worth trying to get the quarantine tank up and going? I'll still have to have a powerhead in that and all I have is a big sponge filter for it. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Yes, but those do not impact photosynthesis except in a very minor way (less than 50% absorption), most is reflected. As will said, there are two things to consider: Photosynthesis and Aesthetics There are different requirements for each. Hydro, did you read the article i posted (and I think someone else reposted)? The LED has 2/3rds the PAR at only 1/3rd the power. Cost wise, a new MH bulb every 6 months ($75 or so a pop), a reflector ($150-$250), the ballast ($150 or so). I think LEDs are pretty comparable price wise, even if you have to replace the lamps every 18 months or so (between $3 and $8 per, but that price is coming down quickly). Plus there are the environmental costs. Anyway, I've said my piece. I think LEDs are quite comparable to MH and slightly edge out T5s and are way better than PCs.

Quantitative comparison of lighting systems Try this... P.S. You're welcome to come over sometime and take a look at my lights. I won't be home this weekend, but shoutd be available anytime after that and we're hosting the September ARC meeting.

I've heard way too many different figures for the comparioson between LEDs and MH. I'd say that a light meter would be the better choice, rather than an estimate like that. Maybe a camera shop would loan a light meter or let us test fixtures there? A PAR meter would be even better, that would let us compare apples to apples. Let me see if I can find something research like... My LED fixture was about $400. It's a maxspect G1 160W fixture. The G1s have been replaced with G2s, but the wattage is comparable, the G2s just use better LEDs and have moon lights. We'd also need to consider placement depth as that's an important part of available light and the photo period. I don't have anything but a display tank, so the frag would have to go in that. I'm running 8 hours at full power, then another hour (30 min morning and evening) with 54W of actinics only.

Hydro, The information above is for all photosynthetic organisms. Whether it's a pine tree, photosynthetic bacteria, or corals (the symbiotic parts at least), they all use chlorophyll alpha and chlorophyll beta, some also use Beta carotene, but that's another story and really more about the chemical precursors to the chlorophyll compounds. That being said, I'm sure that some organisms may have more of one type of chlorophyll than another organism, but the 420-460nm and 680nm is really best for anything that's photosynthetic. As far as the first experiment goes, I just don't have room for another tank (rental house here), but I'd be willing to take a coral frag for a period of time. There's so many difference though, that the test results would be basically meaningless. Feeding schedule, other nutrients in the water, I even have a pair of stupid clown gobies that like to sit in SPSs and may harass them. One possibbility would be to take your nano cube and put a piece of black PVC down the middle and put an LED on one side and a MH on the other. Count me in as an experimenter. To remove as much of the uncertainty as possible, we'd need to get all shots using a single camera. (I'll volunteer my Nikon point and shoot, it's good for this sort of thing) and we'd both have to do initial chemistry checks (as much as possible) and a PAR meter would be really helpful. Otherwise, we'd need to do the water checks every few days and keep a log along with pics. There are a few potential areas of concern: the afore mentioned gobies and the fact that I have a difficult time keeping calcium above 300. Magnesium is good, but calcium stays low for some reason.

My understanding is that you could have a million lumens and photosynthetic organisms can still starve. The light must be in the correct wavelengths. Consider the following: This diagram (taken from here: Photosynthesis and light wavelengths) shows that photosynthesis is greatest in the 420-460nm (nanometers) wavelengths, with another strong peak at 660-68nm. The top graph shows that at 420 and 680, almost 100% of incoming light is absorbed (by different chlorophyll molecules). Between about 520nm and 660nm less than 50% of the light hitting the organism is absorbed (this would be why plants look 'green' as green is 492nm to 577nm). So 50% of the energy of any bulb that puts out green light is wasted... as far as photosynthesis is concerned. In terms of MH lamps, that's wasted energy and wasted heat for no real reason. The OP is correct in that LEDs generally generate a very specific frequency of light (same thing with an actinic T-5 or PC bulb). However, the ability to place many different LED and varying (and photosynthetically important) wavelengths give it a slight advantage (IMHO) over MH. So, a very well designed LED fixture with multiple lamps mostly in the 420-460nm range and the 660-680nm range will provide the best possible lighting for the organism. Other lighting may be required to make you think the tank is pretty. Those 15,000K - 20,000K bulbs for example, produce a beautiful effect in the tank for us, but aren't really all that different for the organisms than a 6500K bulb. Check this graph out: OK, this is really more about blackbody radiation, but the center of the colored area has a line that shows how the Kelvin (K) temperature rating of a blackbody (light bulb is close enough for our purposes) relates to the color of light (the line around the outside of the colored area shows the wavelength). You can see that anything about about 6500K is mostly blue, which is what drives photosynthesis anyway. I hope that helps a little.

First, let me say this. I'm not an expert in lighting systems, but I am a scientist and I can do research. I would suggest this page: Aquarium Lighting It gives an in-depth discussion of all factors of aquarium (both fresh and salt) lighting and the descriptions of various lighting methods. This is the main reason that I chose to go with LEDs. Now, with my LED set-up, I've got 2 30-Watt white LED spots (running at roughly 18,000K). There are 14 3-Watt whites (6500K) and 14 3-Watt actinics (420 nanometers). The 420s and the 6500Ks are EXACTLY what photosynthetic organisms (all of them) need. There's not a whole lot of variation in photosynthetic organisms, that's what they need. The 18,000Ks are for the looks. I can only tell you my experience with LEDs as I've never run MH. I love the LEDs. The whole unit is cool to the touch all the time. When I had a 96W power compact lamp, I was given a small frag of birdsnest SPS. It did OK at the very top of the tank, it maybe doubled in length in 4 months. I put in 160W LEDS and moved the birds nest to the bottom of the tank, it has still grown like gangbusters. Like so: December (acquisition of birds nest under PCs) January (still PCs) (upper middle right, next to the intake tube) March (aqusition of LEDs) - this pic was the day after I got the LEDs, so no real influence of LEDs yet Sometime in May (LEDs and moved to the bottom of the tank) Since then, I've added some really nice, heavy lighting requirement corals and they are doing fine under the LEDs. Added bonus, I won't have to even think about changing light bulbs for another 12 months. They say 5 years, but I'm being conservative and planning to upgrade half the lamps in 8 months or so and the rest about this time next year. I'll be upgrading them to the same wattage, but higher lumen units.

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