Finally getting a big tank!

[Wade]

I've been talking with the builder who will be building our new house in the Spring and I've got an opportunity to make it a built in. It would be located in the den in the basement. I'll have a "fish room" behind the tank dedicated to caring for it and the other tanks in the house as well as coral propagation. Tile floor with a drain in the center of the room. I need to start planning now for how big the tank will be. I'm leaning towards a 240. A six foot tank should be large enough to house most tangs and plenty of room for a nice mixed reef:)

So many questions. I want to do it right the first time. No shortcuts. That doesn't mean there's no budget, just means I want to do it right even if that means taking longer to do it.

I'm thinking of a starfire glass tank, but I see many that go with acrylic. I've always been afraid of acrylic because they scratch easy. How much of a concern is that really? I know my current tank has coraline algae growing everywhere and I have an urchin that stays very busy cleaning it off the glass. I guess if it was FOWLR then acrylic would be fine, but with a mixed reef maybe glass would be better.

How to incorporate the stand into the wall? I'm thinking a steel rhino-coated stand is the best choice. If the front of the tank is flush with the outer wall, then how do you build the stand into the wall without it showing? I guess the builder should be able to provide that answer. I just don't think a wood stand will allow me to get a big sump underneath it with some support or another being in the way.

The equipment and plumbing I can figure out after I decide on what I'm getting and what it's going on. I would think that a 75 gallon sump should do fine.

I've attached a quick mark up of the layout of the tank and room. At least this is what I'm thinking at this point. The room will be approximately 11' wide and 19' deep.

Here's my question to you: If it was yours to do, how would you do it?

[jestep]

I haven't set up a tank this large so I can't really comment on the setup and plumbing, but personally, I would never go acrylic on anything I want to see through long term. It scratches incredibly easily and it's a lot of work to resurface.

[Sascha D.]

Acrylic scratches, but you can buff it out. I believe that you have to drain the water to remove the scratches though. Urchins are known to scratch acrylic and you should probably avoid them. You'll also need acrylic approved algae scrubbers. Starfire glass is stronger than acrylic, but scratches easier than standard glass. A friend of mine had swirls in his starfire tank because he left his magnet in the tank and limpets got under it. He started cleaning the tank and the shell scratched everything to heck. I've heard before that you can't tell the difference unless you put a regular glass tank right next to a starfire glass tank. It might be worth researching further if you're interested.

You should decide on the overflow type before you get quotes from tank builders. I found a lot of people that wouldn't build every overflow type.

Unless you know a guy, who knows a guy, then steel stands are going to be 2-3x the price of wood. I don't say that to dissuade you, but I was a little sticker shocked. The people that I've seen get steel have gone with powder coating or rhino lining.

You said that you are making the tank built in. How are you going to access it when the stand is covered in drywall? Some people build a room with an access door. I would recommend venting it to the outside if you can. You could also recess it into the wall, but the steel stand would show. You can either leave it exposed or skin it. A good skin will probably cost you another grand. Another think to think about is what you're going to do with the lighting. I didn't consider my canopy when I designed my tank and now I can't reach the back without taking the canopy off or using tongs.

[ShawnM]

I have a built in tank 150 gal but oh what I would give for the room behind it like you plan.

I don't think with the diagram below you will have any trouble accessing the sump area or top of the tank since both will be open I assume I would definitely go with a metal stand just for the openness and the longevity of it.

I would also have two bathroom fans installed venting to the out side and leave them running all the time.

Someone you might reach out to is Jimbo since I know at one time he had a in the wall tank.

I would also do research into to upgrading the electrical to that room too.

But I might also look into building a stand with another tank to plumb in to the main system in the corner between the stand and the water mixing station to increase water volume and have an entire tank designated for coral grow out and frags and in that stand or in the area some smaller tanks for quarantine tanks

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[Juiceman]

I would suggest not having the sump under the tank at all!

So much easier Maintenance. also.. If you go steel... it makes it where you can have full access under the tank, so I would definitely go that route if needed.

A Dehumidifier and or small AC unit may be a good investment for the fish room.

It's my understanding you "hide" the tank by putting wood trim around it. Not sure though.

[Reburn]

Tank will have to be recessed a 1/2" which is what the drywall depth is. This is what built ins have trim around them almost always. I would go steel. Be prepared to spend 1500 without tops and powder coating. Coating will be another 200. It doesn't take long to get 2k into a stand. Star fire glass is noticeable on tanks 3/4 or thicker. 1/2 glass...not so much. I wouldn't do acrylic. Sump should be external not under the stand, I have seen guys put external sumps on stand slightly below the tank. I would give my left arm to be able to work in a sump and waist height, plus with a room behind the tank you can easily run a reeflo pump since noise isn't a primary concern. +1 on an dehumidifier and ac. It looks like you have room to do 8'........I would opt for the bigger tank.

[Timfish]

Well, if you get rid of that stoarge room you could easily do 600 or 700 gallons. The main thing I would suggest is design for easy access and redundancy as much as possible. I would go with standard glass, I've never been able to tell the difference with starfire once a sytem is up and running with lights and algae. Looks like a fun project!

[Wade]

Thanks all. Seriously.

Good info regarding the Starfire. I have no experience with it and I've been happy with my regular glass so maybe save the money there and go with a bigger tank like Reburn said:) I'll have to do some research on 8' tanks now.

I do plan to have a dedicated circuit (to a GFCI breaker) just for the tank and the rest of the room on another one.

Good thinking with having the sump out from under the tank. I have plenty of room so might as well make things as easy on myself as I can. I saw a guy who had a 100g Rubbermaid trough as a sump and had egg crate in it at different depths. I thought that was an awesome idea if you had the room. Can't believe I didn't remember that! I may have seen it on ARC as a matter of fact. And having it waist height! Brilliant! I'm 6' 3" and love the idea of that. And yes, I plan to plumb my frag system into it at well to increase the water volume as much as possible. The QTs will be separate.

Well, if I have all of the equipment out from under the tank (the more I say it the more I like it:)) then a wooden stand would be fine I think and save me a lot of money, especially if the builder does it as part of the house build. He's as excited about making it built in as I am and wants my help setting him up a tank when he's done with our house. Maybe sooner.

I don't doubt that the limpets scratched that glass. From what I've read, their teeth are some of the strongest material known to exist. Stupid thing is, I leave my algae cleaner in my tank all the time even thug I know better. Just lazy about it.

Vent the room. Yes. Hadn't thought of that. AC/heating vent too. Good call on both. And the dehumidifier.

Overflow type? Can you expound on that please? I have a feeling that's going to be a big discussion for some reason.

The top of the tank will be completely exposed with several feet of room above it so access shouldn't be a problem. Now that the sump is not going underneath I'll go forward with my thought to have a platform built around the perimeter so I can stand right up next to it even if I have to duck. I think that would be invaluable. I plan to have the lighting on a pulley system so I can raise it out my way when I need to.

Reeflo pump huh? I'll need to do some research on those. I'll need to research all the equipment for large systems. Large skimmers, heaters, how many power heads and where to place them, etc., etc. This is exciting stuff. Really never thought I would ever have a big tank. I guess the next step is to start putting together the equipment list to see what I'm looking at. As part of lightening my load in preparation for downsizing to a smaller house I sold my classic Chevy and boat. That's my tank money. So basically I've got $10k - $12k to spend without getting the stink-eye from the wife. Doesn't mean I have to spend it all, but that's the ceiling on the project. Would you all mind helping me put together a quality equipment list within that range?

• tank - I like the idea of an 8' tank. I looked at the SC Aquariums 240g, but I don't think they make anything bigger and I think all their tanks are Starfire anyway.
• skimmer
• power heads
• heaters
• lights (LEDs) - I've been using a Reefbreader's Photon series for the past few years and have been happy with it. I do believe there are quality LED manufacturers without the high price tag you pay for the name.
• return pump
• reactors - I've been using BRS, but I guess I will have to get bigger ones or multiple of carbon & GFO to handle that volume? Will I even need them?
• dosing - again, I'm using BRS dosing pumps. Adequate for this volume or is the volume so great that I don't have to worry about dosing?
• Sump options - I like the idea of a big Robbermade but am open to all options
• what am I missing???

[jestep]

You don't have to worry about noise as much, but I'm still a huge fan of herbie or other horizontal overflows. Quieter and if done correctly they take up zero space in the tank. I curse whoever made durso's the go to for reef ready tanks...

If you're not going over 300 gallons, all this is still fairly straightforward, just scaled up.

For components like reactors, skimmers, return and in-tank pumps, you're basically looking at off the shelf components, just possibly more or larger of them. Unless you use a ton of media, you should still be able to use BRS or similar setups for GFO and carbon, just might need a larger pump with a manifold. I run 4 off a single pump right now, it splits in 2 and 2 reactors are run from each branch. I used push tubing and reducing tees to easily plumb it all together.

Flow, could do vortechs, gyre's, jebaos, or go spin streams or tunzes. Tons of options and price ranges.

Also, not sure what height you're looking for, but tank depth is a huge one, I've worked in 30"+ tanks and you need a mask to do anything on the substrate. Not quite as fun as it sounds although it's very amusing for anyone watching you work on the tank...

[Wade]

Glass Cages has this 8' they make:

375 - 8 Wide 96 x 37 1/2 x 24 1/2 Tall ( 3/4 glass ) $2202

[Wade]

Well we both dive so that would be amusing. I guarantee the wife posts a pic of my face down in the tank the first chance she gets. The tank I posted above is only 24.5 tall so that wouldn't be bad. It's the width that will require me to reach way in to do anything in the front. I like the idea of it having that depth of vision. Lots of aquascaping options there:)

[Timfish]

I would skip a skimmer.

There's a huge advantage to have a tank that wide. You can do a lot of aquascaping with channels 24" long that go all the way to the back of the tank and still have plnty of room between the front glass and where your aquascaping starts. This lets you move your lights away from the front edge reducing the amount of light hitting it and really slowing down how fast algae grows on it.

[Wade]

Has anyone read about this guy's build. It's a 375 built in with a room behind. Very impressive set up. Not sure I'm ready for this kind of undertaking. Also not sure I'd have to go to this extent either. His build has many of the same aspects that we've been discussing.

glassreef.com

[Jimbo662]

I would also suggest having access panels in the den area. When I did mine it was a royal P.I.T.A. to try to clean the glass or do anything at the front of the tank all from the back side.

[jolt]

I think Jimbo's on to something there. I had a 90 gallon built into a wall for several years. It was a FOWLR tank and cleaning from the backside of it was hard enough at 18" wide. Throw a bunch of coral in and I think it might get rough ...

[Sascha D.]

Glass Cages has this 8' they make:

375 - 8 Wide 96 x 37 1/2 x 24 1/2 Tall ( 3/4 glass ) $2202

I have a Glass Cages tank and the price doesn't reflect the true cost. Once you get done adding features and shipping, then add another grand. It's still cheaper than most other places, but they won't install it. They won't even drive it to your house. The best that you can get is picking it up at the freight terminal. I tried to hire movers and six companies straight-up told me they wouldn't do it. I even tried the local fish stores and they turned me down. If not for ARC, then that thing would have ended up on CL before water testing!

[FarmerTy]

Glass Cages has this 8' they make:

375 - 8 Wide 96 x 37 1/2 x 24 1/2 Tall ( 3/4 glass ) $2202

I have a Glass Cages tank and the price doesn't reflect the true cost. Once you get done adding features and shipping, then add another grand. It's still cheaper than most other places, but they won't install it. They won't even drive it to your house. The best that you can get is picking it up at the freight terminal. I tried to hire movers and six companies straight-up told me they wouldn't do it. I even tried the local fish stores and they turned me down. If not for ARC, then that thing would have ended up on CL before water testing!

Sascha called up "Two Crazy Guys" moving to get it out of the truck and into the garage in the first place. [emoji23]

[Wade]

Yeah from access panels would be great to have. Especially if I decide to go with the 375 that's 37" wide. There'll be no reaching the front without crawling into the thing!

Thanks for the heads up about Glass Cages. Recommendations on a quality tank maker?

[jolt]

I really like my Planet Aquariums frag tank. I did not like their overflow design, but the glasswork is excellent and so I just put in a nice ghost overflow. Gary at Aquadome is very easy to work with on Planet special orders. It took 4 weeks to deliver after I ordered it.

EDIT: I just remembered you are not local. It's possible your LFS could order Planet

[Juiceman]

The Reef Octopus DC (regal) skimmers are great!

The Rubbermaid bin is easy but not as usable as something you can install baffles in. I'd recommend either building something or having something made.

The more you can put at a great accessibility the better and more maintained you can keep it

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[Sascha D.]

Glass Cages has this 8' they make:

375 - 8 Wide 96 x 37 1/2 x 24 1/2 Tall ( 3/4 glass ) $2202

I have a Glass Cages tank and the price doesn't reflect the true cost. Once you get done adding features and shipping, then add another grand. It's still cheaper than most other places, but they won't install it. They won't even drive it to your house. The best that you can get is picking it up at the freight terminal. I tried to hire movers and six companies straight-up told me they wouldn't do it. I even tried the local fish stores and they turned me down. If not for ARC, then that thing would have ended up on CL before water testing!

Sascha called up "Two Crazy Guys" moving to get it out of the truck and into the garage in the first place. [emoji23]

Haha! I remember one crazy guy and one guy who felt sorry for the crazy guy trying to move a 600 pound tank by himself!

The Glass Cages tank was built well and they mostly built it to my specs. If you go with them, then you have to write it down or they'll mess it up. The warranty is largely worthless and gets voided if you don't use their stands. Unfortunately, their stands and canopies are horrible! It wouldn't be bad for someone using a canister pump, but it's not meant for sump use. I just remembered that I wrote a review on them if you want to read it here. I regularly regret my big tank, but for different reasons. If I had to do it again, then I probably would have stayed out of the hobby or gotten into a 90 cube.

[Wade]

Yeah when I think of the maintenance associated with having such a big tank it gives me pause. I like the idea of having a big tank and all the wonderful things I could do with it, but would it be more a full time burden then a pleasure. I'll definitely think long and hard before I go forward with it. I'm happy with my 72 and have it automated to the point where it's not a burden. It doesn't own me. I can go on a two week vacation and not worry about it (much). I think that's possible with a big tank, but I don't know that it is. I want to maintain that relationship with my tank. If that's only really possible up to a certain size and then it hits a whole new level of involvement, then I hope I can determine that before I make a bad decision. I'm hoping to have a conversation with the Glass Reef guy (Tom) and he'll be able to enlighten me. This can be a very emotional hobby. I have the desire to create something beautiful, but I need to make sure I do some reality checks along the way:) Once I have all the data in hand I'll be able to make a more informed decision I think. If you want to share why you regret your 300, I'd be glad to have that conversation. Just PM me.

[jestep]

Haha! I remember one crazy guy and one guy who felt sorry for the crazy guy trying to move a 600 pound tank by himself!

The Glass Cages tank was built well and they mostly built it to my specs. If you go with them, then you have to write it down or they'll mess it up. The warranty is largely worthless and gets voided if you don't use their stands. Unfortunately, their stands and canopies are horrible! It wouldn't be bad for someone using a canister pump, but it's not meant for sump use. I just remembered that I wrote a review on them if you want to read it here. I regularly regret my big tank, but for different reasons. If I had to do it again, then I probably would have stayed out of the hobby or gotten into a 90 cube.

I was considering a custom tank from them a few years ago but the warranty situation was so baffling, and there were enough horror stories about it, I wouldn't risk it. They're set up like a commercial wholesaler but they ship to consumers who quite literally have no business dealing with freight, especially large breakable objects like fish tanks by freight. If you really think about it, a warranty on the silicon on a tank without the ability to actually get warranty service because return shipping isn't cost effective, is essentially worthless.

As for potential damage, most all freight works this way as well. Once you sign that form, you just assumed all liability for the product and the delivery.

Basically, everything is working against you to accidentally accept damaged goods when you get a freight shipment and it's really easy to mess it up. Freight drivers are usually in a hurry to get out of there as well so if you aren't accustomed to receiving freight packages, you have that to deal with as well. You must make the driver wait until you have thoroughly inspected it, often they are audibly annoyed when you do this, and even if it is damaged they'll often still try to get you to sign the acceptance form. Pay the extra for lift gate service if it is offered but get help to move whatever it is yourself once it's on the ground. We had a large package freighted a few years ago and it did include lift-gate service, but they deliberately positioned it in our garage to hide damage to the crate. Because it was also a 400 lb+ object, maneuvering it was all but impossible, we didn't find the damage for a good week and by sheer dumb luck the contents were inscathed even though we determined that someone basically put a fork lift 18 inches into the shipping crate... Your best bet is to get the package out somewhere in the open like a flat driveway in the middle of the day and inspect it top to bottom until you are completely satisfied it isn't damaged. Anyway, freight and one off fish tanks, is a scary concept to me.

[+SChrisEV]

This is virtually the size I was wanting, 8 x 3 x 2. I really like the idea of the size of aquascape! You could so that tank half(ish) in the display room and tank room. Not a traditional in-wall at the paint but you'll get some side action on both sides, and easy access to clean the front/back of the tank.

[Sascha D.]

I would skip a skimmer.

There's a huge advantage to have a tank that wide. You can do a lot of aquascaping with channels 24" long that go all the way to the back of the tank and still have plnty of room between the front glass and where your aquascaping starts. This lets you move your lights away from the front edge reducing the amount of light hitting it and really slowing down how fast algae grows on it.

Aquascaping my tank drives me crazy! I want fewer options. LOL! I'm never satisfied because I think I can make it better and end up destroying it. I've got the rocks and the tank. All I need is a professional aquascaping genius to stop by...

Yeah when I think of the maintenance associated with having such a big tank it gives me pause. I like the idea of having a big tank and all the wonderful things I could do with it, but would it be more a full time burden then a pleasure. I'll definitely think long and hard before I go forward with it. I'm happy with my 72 and have it automated to the point where it's not a burden. It doesn't own me. I can go on a two week vacation and not worry about it (much). I think that's possible with a big tank, but I don't know that it is. I want to maintain that relationship with my tank. If that's only really possible up to a certain size and then it hits a whole new level of involvement, then I hope I can determine that before I make a bad decision. I'm hoping to have a conversation with the Glass Reef guy (Tom) and he'll be able to enlighten me. This can be a very emotional hobby. I have the desire to create something beautiful, but I need to make sure I do some reality checks along the way:) Once I have all the data in hand I'll be able to make a more informed decision I think. If you want to share why you regret your 300, I'd be glad to have that conversation. Just PM me.

I very much want a balance in life. I want to balance my work schedule with my home life and I want to balance my personal time with my obligations. There is a very fine line between an aquarium being a hobby and an aquarium being an obligation. I believe most hobbyists quit because they feel obligated and it eventually becomes too much. It's the same difference between volunteering to do something and being forced to do something. My current aquarium is automated more than any aquarium that I've had in the past. I can enjoy the tank when things are going well. The problem occurs when things aren't going so well. The 55g mixing barrel in my garage only accounts for 13% of my total water volume. A 30% water change might cost $20 or more in salt, take two days to filter, and take up a lot of space in the garage. It's a challenge correcting parameters and often takes multiple tries. It helps to chart out quick reference measurements; how much xxx to dose to raise the water by xx ppm, etc. I'm salty because I'm disappointed in myself and not because the tank is impossible to manage. I very much want to balance the tank within my personal time and, right now, it's taking up a disproportionate amount.