Killing Live Rock: Muratic Acid Questions

[BornToHula]

I'm throwing in the towel against the vermetid snails in my 75 gallon tank. I was hoping to starve the snails out and then transfer the rock to my new 240g tank, but after 1 month of no feeding and implementing mechanical filtration it doesn't appear to have affected them. I think I would eventually win the war but it would take longer than I want.

I think my best option is to just kill the rock and start over. I will lose some sponges and other life I wanted to keep, but the last thing I want is another vermetid infestation.

I am deciding if I want to go the muriatic acid route - after some research I am still unsure on a few things:

With muratic acid, do you still need to cure the rock afterward to remove any phosphates from the dead organics? Or are they completely dissolved away?

Do you think the acid would remove the vermetid snail tubes from the rock?

How do you dispose of the acid once you are done?

[victoly]

Just to be safe I would at least soak it in DI for a week or two after treating with HCl. Proper curing certainly couldn't hurt, but that all depends on your timeline. I don't know that phosphate will be an issue. The snails tubes are likely to be calcarous, and the acid will probably remove their skeletons.

To dispose of the acid, just add baking soda until the pH is neutral and dispose in a drain.

[JasReef]

I had a huge vermitid snail problem a couple months ago and I just noticed the other day most of them are gone. I don't know why, I didn't change anything.

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[FarmerTy]

Mine went away over time as well. There are only a few these days that are still in the tank.

[Juiceman]

Yes, you will need to recure it to be safe.

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[Juiceman]

I would also re cycle it... So after an rodi soak, run a typical saltwater cycle In a tub or bin.

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[BornToHula]

Thanks for the input everyone. I think I will be going the muratic acid route to remove the vermetid snail's shells and then re-cycle the rock.

Are these necessary when using the acid, or are the cheaper paper-like respirators good enough? http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Medium-Professional-Multi-Purpose-Respirator-62023HA1-C/202080144

I know most people's vermetid snails problems eventually go away, but they have been in my tank since I got it about 2 and a half years ago. They have slowly been increasing ever since, to the point where they literally cover everything now. Its probably an issue of not being able to run good mechanical filtration on the tank to remove particles in the water, or perhaps there is just too much junk on the live rock that is keeping them alive. Because of this I am very paranoid about them coming into the 240g. I would rather be safe than sorry and just nuke the rocks.

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

I can't speak from experience about the 3M resperator, but if acid vapors aren't listed as something it will filter, then I wouldn't use it. As far as I can tell it is good for particulates, lead, certain molds, and organic vapor. While treating rock with acid, I have just stood up wind of the bucket (wearing long sleeves and goggles), and just held my breath while pouring it in. As long as you aren't standing down wind of it and breathing it in you should be perfectly fine.

[BornToHula]

I can't speak from experience about the 3M resperator, but if acid vapors aren't listed as something it will filter, then I wouldn't use it. As far as I can tell it is good for particulates, lead, certain molds, and organic vapor. While treating rock with acid, I have just stood up wind of the bucket (wearing long sleeves and goggles), and just held my breath while pouring it in. As long as you aren't standing down wind of it and breathing it in you should be perfectly fine.

OK, thanks for the info.

[Timfish]

Personally I would never use muratic acid on any calcium carbonate rock. It's making chlorine gas, the stuff used for chemical warfare in WWI and definitely not something you do not want to be breathing or letting anything else breath. I also suspect it will take quite a bit to dissolve the shells. I think it would be better just to hose it off well then physically knock off the ends of the snail shells that stick out. If you are using quality maricultured or wild live rock when setting up your new tank (50 lbs in your 240 would be enough) I don't see any need to "cycle" it to reestablish bacteria colonies on it.

[JasReef]

I dipped some extra rock in muratic acid last last month and left it in for 2-4 hours in my back yard. I used about 1/3 of a jug from home Depot on about 15 lbs of rock and it dissolved way more of the rock than I wanted it too. Since then I have just left them out in the sun.

When I use them I will just rinse them and add into sump. If you are doing a lot then I would expect a cycle to occur.

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[Neon Reefer]

You can't erradiacte them with a rock swap , you would need to get their eggs/larvae too which will be suspended in the water column and in the sandbed. Only periodic massive extermination via elbow grease seems to keep the population down. They will just keep coming back

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

Is there a reason you don't just want to kill the rock by letting it sit in the sun and 100+ degree heat? Or are you trying to do a 1-2 punch and kill the snails and also get rid of the outer layer of rock and any bound phosphates at the same time?

If you just want the snails gone, I would just superglue over them or just dry the rock out one afternoon.

[SHALAKO]

I have seen my milanaris wrasse bite the vermetid snail heads right off the stalks.

I like to use Muriatic acid to help dissolve the bacterial layer of organics on used rock (3-4 days).

It's what I do now, with any and all rock coming into my system.

I then follow the muriatic acid with 2 rinse/soak cycles of baking soda (1 day or so).

This prepares the rock for the next bath of 30% hydrogen peroxide (pool supply store) .

Peroxide is a much better oxidizer that better oxidizes the organics that are deeper in the rock (3-4 days).

Peroxide removes NO3 and PO4 much better than HCL.

Be careful with the peroxide, if it gets on you, it will begin to melt your skin! Use protection & rinse immediately.

If needed, add water to the peroxide to dilute after 3-4 days of soaking; peroxide should be used up by then.

You can just rinse blast the rock with a power washer or a hose; rock should be ready to go, no salt soaking/cycle is required.

Good luck!

[Juiceman]

I used regular white Cleaning mask and ran a fan blowing out the garage right at the bin. No issues here. I might do it again.

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[Sascha D.]

I've used Muriatic Acid twice to take a load of LR back to base rock. My goal was to kill the rock before cycling and I used a higher concentration than other posts above. I was concerned with Valonia spores and other pests that aren't easily removed rather than phosphate leaching. Here is how I did it with pictures.

[FarmerTy]

I have seen my milanaris wrasse bite the vermetid snail heads right off the stalks.

I like to use Muriatic acid to help dissolve the bacterial layer of organics on used rock (3-4 days).

It's what I do now, with any and all rock coming into my system.

I then follow the muriatic acid with 2 rinse/soak cycles of baking soda (1 day or so).

This prepares the rock for the next bath of 30% hydrogen peroxide (pool supply store) .

Peroxide is a much better oxidizer that better oxidizes the organics that are deeper in the rock (3-4 days).

Peroxide removes NO3 and PO4 much better than HCL.

Be careful with the peroxide, if it gets on you, it will begin to melt your skin! Use protection & rinse immediately.

If needed, add water to the peroxide to dilute after 3-4 days of soaking; peroxide should be used up by then.

You can just rinse blast the rock with a power washer or a hose; rock should be ready to go, no salt soaking/cycle is required.

Good luck!

Nice, I may have to look into the concentrated peroxide soak as well!

[Reburn]

I use sodium percarbonate as a replacement for hydrogen peroxide.

[victoly]

It's making chlorine gas, the stuff used for chemical warfare in WWI and definitely not something you do not want to be breathing or letting anything else breath.

I don't think this is accurate. HCl + CaCO3 should generate CaCl, CO2 and H2O. That's not to say that breathing HCl vapors is good, one should definitely do any work with HCl in open air.