bfrench Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Acrylic rods are definitely on the agenda for aquascaping the next tank. Probably not the current one though. So advice time. I need a sump. I was considering a trigger system sump but their largest prefab is 40 gallons and the tank manufacturer highly recommended that the sump be a minimum of 20% of the volume of the tank. So I don't run a protein skimmer and really only need a place for a refugium and maybe down the road a calcium reactor. I looked at synergy reef systems and I think it would meet my needs but the price tag hurts a bit. I'm open to any and all advice. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I know you don't run a skimmer now and probably will never however you should design your sump where that is at least an option in the future if you change your mind. Some builders off the top of my head that I have worked with and been extremely happy. Zen reef - custom sumps Melevs reef - has some standard sumps and can do a custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christyef Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Curious why you don't run a skimmer. Do you use filter socks? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 TLDR: I'm lazy and didn't take care of my tank. Despite not having a skimmer everything was fine. There are some builds out there that don't use it and seem to have excellent success. I have a really nice reef octopus skimmer that I used for a while. It was just terribly difficult to clean and empty because past me decided to screw over future me by not taking into account baffle height and depth for the skimmer when making the custom sump. Also past me didn't bother to measure the height of the skimmer plus the make shift skimmer stand and it basically butts up against the top of the stand. So, after 6 months of messing around with it I just pulled the whole thing. I'll post a pick of the current sump, but basically it's miracle mud, chaeto, some live rock rubble and phosgurad. No filter socks, tried those and it was just a PITA. I bought some synthetic batting from Hobby lobby and use that after the refugium section to keep chaeto from getting to the return pump. It gets replaced every 3-6 weeks. Flying in the face of all known logic and recommendations I ran skimmerless with no water changes only doing top offs and clearing out the chaeto intermittently for 6+ months. We had our first little one and between the 2 jobs, the part time real estate gig, and being woken up multiple times a night the tank didn't get the attention that it needed. Interestingly enough, I tested before the previous water change and Nitrates were still 0, phosphates were around 0.25, and salinity had stayed at 1.026. So despite every effort to completely hose myself the tank managed to be self sustaining. I've rapidly become of the mindset that more gadgets generally = more possible failures. I may revert back to using a skimmer someday, but I found this gorgeous tank http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/6/aquarium and he basically runs skimmerless and only occasionally uses a calcium reactor. Given his amazing success despite a heavy bio load, I'm hoping to somewhat replicate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 I grew up working construction and repairing rental properties. My education by and large allowed me to leave that behind. However, I hate plumbing and electrical work. Probably because I'm miserable at both. And given the debacle that was the plumbing on my last tank I've hired David from urban aquatics to consult on the tank and handle the install. This led to a further change in design. So now the tank is 72x30x30 for 280 gallons :-) There is a debate going in right now regarding sump size. The builder recommend a minimum if 25% the volume of the tank, so at least 70 gallons but preferably 90 gallons. Others seem to think we can get by with 40-50 gallons. I'd live done geedbsck from fellow large tank owners on this. I had been planning on in running a herbie drain, but David recommend the bean animal. I've done a fair amount of reading on both and didn't want to scree with the bean setup, but I guess if he's doing it I might as well go for silent with the bean. I've been having issues with one of my vortechs connecting to reeflink after I upgradef to the quiet drive controller. So it's getting shipped back to ecotech. I had a new mp40wQD laying around for the new tank and all I can say is wow! It's definitely a superior piece of craftsmanship. Seriously considering just selling the old pumps and upgrading to all new QD mp 40s In other news I picked up a 20 and a 39 gallon tank for free with the purchase of an mp10. So I've got quarantine tanks now. Just going to need to get those up and running in the next few weeks. Our current home gets listed next week, so it will have to wait until after that. Currently in the process of painting and packing. We added a few more fish to the current tank after visiting just reefs last weekend. Arron is great! We now have a huge female squareback abthias to go with our large make and other small female. Pictures coming as soon as I can get my daughter down for a nap. Bid on the remodel for the new house is pending. Hoping to hear something later today. Getting really excited about the aquascaping. I think I'm going to go soft coral and lps dominant with some scattered SPS. I really like the extra movement in the tank from softies :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Also should let me avoid a calcium reactor for the time being. I usually feed frozen foods 1-2 times daily. I'm trying to figure out how to automate this at some point so longer trips are possible without a tank sitter. Any ideas are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christyef Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/6/aquarium What a good article! And I totally agree w/ you about the movements of the lps. I prefer that too (and am not very good at growing sps.. [emoji12]) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I would go for the biggest sump you can get in the stand personally, but I think 75-90 gallons will do you right. That's what I have for my 215-gallon tank. For frozen foods, I'd also supplement with pellets on an autofeeder so that when you do happen to leave to go out of town, the pellets can administer at least a maintenance dose of food while you're gone. This way, the fish will already be accepting of pellet foods and can buy you more time to actually have a life and take longer vacations without having to worry about starving fish or having to inconvenience friends/family to come by and feed your tank daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 I would go for the biggest sump you can get in the stand personally, but I think 75-90 gallons will do you right. That's what I have for my 215-gallon tank. For frozen foods, I'd also supplement with pellets on an autofeeder so that when you do happen to leave to go out of town, the pellets can administer at least a maintenance dose of food while you're gone. This way, the fish will already be accepting of pellet foods and can buy you more time to actually have a life and take longer vacations without having to worry about starving fish or having to inconvenience friends/family to come by and feed your tank daily. Ty, That's a brilliant idea. Thank you for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/6/aquarium What a good article! And I totally agree w/ you about the movements of the lps. I prefer that too (and am not very good at growing sps.. [emoji12]) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm glad you enjoyed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 You're welcome sir. You're talking with an equally lazy reefer here. [emoji4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 So my lazy reefing concept has started to be up ended. I'm once again in need of advice and realizing I'm in way over my head on this build. So here it goes. I've decided that I'm probably going to have to run a protein skimmer.....(gasp) I know I know. Not where I wanted to spend the money, but realizing it's probably going to be necessary considering how heavily I want to stock the tank. In the process of attempting to acquire a sump I've encountered a variety of prices, opinions, and personalities. Frankly, I've realized that most stores will try to sell you whatever they have even if it's not a great idea. Had one try to convince me that sump size didn't matter at all and 40 gallons would be fine. Forget the fact that the backflow from the tank in a power outage would be at least 30 gallons. Also, everyone has their own idea about how thick the acrylic for a large sump should be. Further, some places apparently aren't interested in making anything remotely custom, or at least won't respond to emails. Positive experiences thus far have been with Zen Reefs and BashSea. If you would like to hear about negative experiences please PM me, I'd prefer not to bash anyone. Zen Reef has been very responsive and the prices have been reasonable once we dropped down to 48 inches in length or less. Understandably so because otherwise they're using multiple acrylic sheets. They have also been very open about doing an entirely custom design. As far as BashSea goes they're a fairly large outfit and I emailed them a question about their sump. I was replied to by the owner who then took the time to email me more than once, provide additional education, and encourage me to go with whoever, but to go as big as I possibly could. I'm not usually one for things looking flashy or for trying to impress, but after setting up the RMS mounting system I have a much greater appreciation for elegant design. The Bashsea sumps are gorgeous, well thought out, and look incredible. He even capped the cost on a custom one and offered to make the skimmer in a matching color with a few modifications for free. The skimmer will basically be able to handle a 320g heavily stocked tank, so my 280 should be a breeze. Where I'm starting to hit a bit of a brain cramp is Steve at Bashsea really advocated for a bio pellet reactor and I can't really find any conclusive info on why this would be so great. Frankly I think running the massive refugium and a totally overpowered protein skimmer would more than suffice for nutrient export.Additionally, was planning on adding the marine pure blocks to the sump so I could go more minimalist on the rock work in the tank. Also,it seems that people running the ultra low nutrient systems are reporting some issues with STN to the point that they're using multiple additives to try and keep the corals going. Thoughts? link for the sump https://premiumaquatics.com/products/bashsea-60x15x16-royal-signature-series-sump-blue-black-includes-freight.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 To biopellet or not. Well, I think it will depend on the volume of your refugium and how you stock it. I've seen recommendations for minimum 10% of the tank volume. So for you that would be 28 gallons. I guess biopellets can be a more compact de-nitrification system but they are easier to screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think a day where you go look at a couple of the larger tanks in town would be helpful for you to see a couple in action and see what their methodologies are. When you start doing so much research online and considering all these different opinions, it's hard to know if half the people are talking from a point of concept or actual results. I think a 30-minute conversation with a couple of people who have tanks that run something similar to what you want to end up with will help you plan your own system. I'd be happy to have you by one day when you're in town if my tank is similar to what you want as an end goal. I run an SPS dominant tank, 215 gallons, with biopellets, GFO, a large skimmer, and a CaRX. I don't do water changes at all. I think you mentioned more of a mixed reef system. I know that Dan H (Dan and Meg) run a fairly mixed system with an emphasis on SPS so they may be a good option as well. Reburn has a spectacular frag tank setup that would run any display system easily. He doesn't have anything in it yet but just the sheer level of detail thst went into the build would be beneficial for you. Juiceman has a large tank as well with an amazing fish population and some nice acro colonies. Just get him before he tears down his tank and replace everything first. Either way, my point is, you've done plenty of online research and talked to plenty of builders. It seems natural to complete the circle and talk to some people who are directly applying these concepts to their tanks and running them currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think a day where you go look at a couple of the larger tanks in town would be helpful for you to see a couple in action and see what their methodologies are. When you start doing so much research online and considering all these different opinions, it's hard to know if half the people are talking from a point of concept or actual results. I think a 30-minute conversation with a couple of people who have tanks that run something similar to what you want to end up with will help you plan your own system. I'd be happy to have you by one day when you're in town if my tank is similar to what you want as an end goal. I run an SPS dominant tank, 215 gallons, with biopellets, GFO, a large skimmer, and a CaRX. I don't do water changes at all. I think you mentioned more of a mixed reef system. I know that Dan H (Dan and Meg) run a fairly mixed system with an emphasis on SPS so they may be a good option as well. Reburn has a spectacular frag tank setup that would run any display system easily. He doesn't have anything in it yet but just the sheer level of detail thst went into the build would be beneficial for you. Juiceman has a large tank as well with an amazing fish population and some nice acro colonies. Just get him before he tears down his tank and replace everything first. Either way, my point is, you've done plenty of online research and talked to plenty of builders. It seems natural to complete the circle and talk to some people who are directly applying these concepts to their tanks and running them currently. Well said Ty I'll be down this Saturday for the meeting. If Dan is around I may see if I can swing by. Otherwise Ty I'd be very interested in seeing your setup. I'm not sure I want to go with GFO or a CaRx right away, but it would be neat to see one in person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Be happy to have you if you can look past the lack of fish in the tank and the resultant algal bloom from my GFO clogging on me 3x in the last 2 months. [emoji4] Perhaps you can come a little before the meeting and we can carpool down south to the meeting? That is if you are just going down there and back up afterwards. If not, no need to carpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'll PM you my contact info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 So when it rains it pours I've been trying to nail down our contractor on his quote for over two weeks now. Really need to figure out how they were going to build the wall so I could get the measurements to my tank builder. To make matters worse HUD owns the foreclosure we were going to purchase and the HOA has fined them repeatedly for having a shed on the property that violates HOA regulations. HUD has refused to render a response to the HOA or to us on the matter. So with only 1.5 weeks to closing we had to walk on the house or face the cost of dealing with this issue which was significantly more than the earnest money. So we broke the contract, hopefully we'll get the earnest money back, but we're already out the cost of the inspections and appraisal. Now we're back to looking at houses again. Fortunately the tank builder wasn't going to start on it for another week so he was okay with delaying the build, and he has a 50% deposit so that helps. Sump is already being assembled and should be shipped in the next week or two. Vortechs and a tunze osmolator are coming in this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 I decided to learn how to use sketch up. Here's the mock up of the current tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm liking the castle-style aquascape a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm liking the castle-style aquascape a lot! Thank you! I'd highly recommend sketch up for anyone planning a tank. It was great to be able to create a 3D structure like the aquascape and move it around. This is what I settled on, but was far different from where I started. Saved me a lot of time drilling and messing around with rocks. Now the trick will be pulling it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BobcatReefer Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'd love to use it, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out from the tutorials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Sump in progress Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 That's one heck of a sump you have going! Sorry to hear about the house, that's always frustrating when a wrench is thrown in the gears of home purchasing. Hopefully everything will turn out alright for you and the build can get underway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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