jestep Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Nice start. Missed the start of this but definitely want to see this one out. I'm sure it's really rough when the wife want you to setup another tank. Still waiting for that one to happen myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 I got the tank into the house and onto the stand! Installed a bit of vinyl liner in the bottom of the stand to protect from small leaks. It's the type of liner that you put under bathtubs and it cost about $6 from Home Depot. Now that the workbench is free, I'm able to start planning my aquascape. I measured out the dimensions of my tank on the table and put some plastic down. I'm trying to leave about 6" of open water at the top for circulation and fish habitat. This is pretty much what it will look like in the tank. Now I have to decide whether or not I want to install acrylic rods or JB Weld it after it's in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko's Reef Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Sweet looking build Sascha. Glad we could assist you. Did u end up redoing the stand? It looks great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 This is a great looking build! Look forward to seeing this tank progress. That tank is a great size it'll look great when you get the rock work in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Check out the cement from marco rocks for bonding the scape. It doesn't need to cure like hydraulic cement and is extremely strong. I'm not a big fan of using epoxy for such a large project. It seems to come apart a lot more than I would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Update: I was having some problems trying to fit a sump into the compact stand. Last night I finally got a 40g breeder into the stand by removing the front center bracing. I'm probably not going to have much floor space to fit anything else in there, but I can always build shelves More importantly, now I have room for all of my equipment and a decent refugium! Thanks to Bio, I was able to plan out the return manifold and begin construction. Unfortunately, the store was out of some parts that I needed to finish the job so I'm going to have to make another trip after work today. I dry fitted what I had last night and it looks awesome! This morning I ordered a new mag12 to run the whole thing; on sale and free shipping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Cant wait to see pics. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuentes31 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 That tank came out great!!.. looks good by the stairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 I am never going to Lowes again!! I spent 2 hours in the store and had the most horrible time I've ever had in a store. I couldn't find what I was looking for, I asked 5 people for help and only 2 of them tried to help me, AND one of them ignored me the first time and walked away! From now on if Home Depot doesn't have it then I'm ordering online. The only reason I even went to Lowes is because they cut glass and HD doesn't. Unfortunately, I couldn't find aquarium silicone to save my life! I did get a few parts I needed to finish my manifold. I need to exchange one of the barbs for a 1" size though. The guy that I chased around the store finally helped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bige Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I prefer lowes plumbing to Home Depot but neither store I go to knows anything. Why is no one is in their department? Seems if everyone would stay in their department everything would work out. Buy no. Anyway. It looks like you got what you needed. Good job on the manifold. It will work great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I consider Lowes a "toy box" and home depot and actual hardware store. FYI in home depot over by the Lexan and acrylic sheets they have tubes of 100% silicone.. I use it all the time for my builds and it cures in 12 hours, bonds acrylic to glass great when I make sumps. (Yes I know they say it doesn't bond good between these two materials but anyone who came into my house during the big tank move saw my sump and the pressure that was placed on the middle baffle, it still hasn't even released a tiny bit so I know it bonds it great for our purposes) The manifold looks good though, it will pressurize properly and all ports when full open should share equal flow unless there is an internal clog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 I prefer lowes plumbing to Home Depot but neither store I go to knows anything. Why is no one is in their department? Seems if everyone would stay in their department everything would work out. Buy no. Anyway. It looks like you got what you needed. Good job on the manifold. It will work great. Haha I totally agree. I have no idea why these stores have the mentality of roaming. I hate when I get the plumbing guy in the lighting section or vice versa and he absolutely doesn't know anything about electrical components! The reason I shop there is because they have a military discount, I know the store pretty well and they never give me any hassle if I have to make a return. I consider Lowes a "toy box" and home depot and actual hardware store. FYI in home depot over by the Lexan and acrylic sheets they have tubes of 100% silicone.. I use it all the time for my builds and it cures in 12 hours, bonds acrylic to glass great when I make sumps. (Yes I know they say it doesn't bond good between these two materials but anyone who came into my house during the big tank move saw my sump and the pressure that was placed on the middle baffle, it still hasn't even released a tiny bit so I know it bonds it great for our purposes) The manifold looks good though, it will pressurize properly and all ports when full open should share equal flow unless there is an internal clog. Thanks again for your help. I couldn't have done it properly without you! I need to make one more trip to HD to pick up the silicone and replace one of the 1/2" thread to 1/2" hose barb adapters with a 1/2" to 1" bard adapter. I think it might be a better idea to replace everything up to the T with 1" parts instead of reducing it. After it's all put together, then I can cement it into place and buy my 1" spa tubing and hose clamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Spa tubing at home depot is best. And both stores do military discount. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Over the weekend I made some progress and had some disappointment... Sump I water the tested the sump and everything was good. I let it dry overnight and then started spacing the baffles. The next day I made a giant mess of the silicone and it got everywhere! The tube that I bought must have been damaged because it started coming out of the back of the tube, as well as, the front. After all the baffles were in I tried to clean up the glass with a razor blade. That totally didn't work as well as I thought because the silicone leaves a residue. In the end the sump looks good and functions well. Plumbing After the sump went into the stand I was able to determine the position of the manifold. I cemented every slip joint and used teflon tape on all the threads before setting it out to dry. Next I will find a way to mount it in the stand. Rocks The rocks were the giant fail for the week. While I was applying silicone to the baffles in the sump, I knocked down the rock structures I had built and couldn't get them back together the same way. I bought JB Waterweld and that didn't work too well. I used about half of the tube on 2 rocks and they still didn't hold 48 hours later. I went to the store to buy some Quickcrete vinyl water patcher and that made a giant mess. I tried 3 batches and the only thing I accomplished was giving my rocks a nasty muddy look. I guess the next step is acryllic rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Over the weekend I made some progress and had some disappointment... Plumbing After the sump went into the stand I was able to determine the position of the manifold. I cemented every slip joint and used teflon tape on all the threads before setting it out to dry. Next I will find a way to mount it in the stand. I'd use pipe strapping if your wanting it to hang, or pipe mounting brackets if you want it flush. I've even seen one guy use over sized zip ties that could release for maintenance, I think he tack nailed them up then zipped around the pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'd use pipe strapping if your wanting it to hang, or pipe mounting brackets if you want it flush. I've even seen one guy use over sized zip ties that could release for maintenance, I think he tack nailed them up then zipped around the pipe. I'm thinking I might make it flush with the back wall of the stand with the hose barbs facing down. The return hose is the 4th in the series and closest to the bulkhead. I was thinking of using wire shelving on the back of the stand and using zip ties to attach the tipes and all of the hoses to the shelves. Do you mean these mounting brackets? I didn't a search but didn't find much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Last night I bought a package of 5 pipe straps, a masonry drill bit, and the rest of the tubing I'll need for the return. Tonight I'm going to try and hang the plumbing. Wish me luck! Tomorrow I'm expecting a HUGE box of goodies from Drs. Foster and Smith!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Yea those are what I meant. Sorry just saw the question. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 I got the last of my equipment from Drs. Foster and Smith. It just so happened to be great timing because they have a big sale going on. It might be raining outside but the sun is shining in my heart! Finalized my plumbing. All the rigid PVC is cemented and in place. I'll be adding zip ties to the hose barbs after I turn everything on and make sure it works. I also need some live sand for the refugium. It looks so empty without a skimmer! I got really lucky to get the 40g breeder at the Petco $1 sale. I also picked up a 10g that I'll be using at as ATO or a QT and it will go on the right of the sump. It's gravity fed so I'll have to build a 16" stand to put it on. I also have the options of using a bucket or drilling a hole in that blue wall and putting a barrel in the closet. I ended up returning my QuietOne 3000 to get the bigger Mag12, that was on sale for 20% off. Turns out I had to return that one as well because I didn't see that it had a venturi modification and "wasn't recommended as a return pump" by the manufacturer. I got this QuietOne 6000 rated at 1600 gph, also on sale, because the regular Mags were regular price. I hope that it's not too big, but I have a ball valve on the main return and a valve dedicated to bleeding the return just in case. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Light in my heart. Cute. With respect to venting of pump discharge to reduce return to tank, in my opinion, it is unnecessary. All centrifugal pumps can be throttled on the discharge with no bad consequences. In fact, as you throttle the discharge of a centrifugal pump, the watts decrease with the volume decrease. Yes the pressure will increase at pump discharge but only up to its designed pressure. May the light of the force be with you. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 +1 on just throttling the pump instead of redirecting it. This is one of those non-intuitive fluid dynamics principles but definitely not needed. I have seen cheaper pumps make a bunch of noise (not cavitation) when throttling the output, but you shouldn't have a problem with this pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Devils advocate to that is, in the event that you decide to keep a frag rack, or need some flow in your fuge, a "bleeder valve" can be of some utility in that situation. However, since you have a manifold, you can accomplish the same thing by running a hose off of the valve. Very well done, excited to see how this progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Light in my heart. Cute. With respect to venting of pump discharge to reduce return to tank, in my opinion, it is unnecessary. All centrifugal pumps can be throttled on the discharge with no bad consequences. In fact, as you throttle the discharge of a centrifugal pump, the watts decrease with the volume decrease. Yes the pressure will increase at pump discharge but only up to its designed pressure. May the light of the force be with you. Patrick Thanks for the input. I'm a plumbing novice at best, so please bare with me. I read that throttling the output of the pump would reduce its useful life. The workaround for this is to designate one ball valve on the manifold to bleed the return line into the refugium by the amount of flow you wish to reduce the return line by. However, I also have a ball valve located at the begining of the manifold that can reduce the flow from the return pump. I'm mainly concerned that the return flow will be too great for the 1" drain line and flood the tank. I also don't want the back pressure to damage the return pump. Devils advocate to that is, in the event that you decide to keep a frag rack, or need some flow in your fuge, a "bleeder valve" can be of some utility in that situation. However, since you have a manifold, you can accomplish the same thing by running a hose off of the valve. Very well done, excited to see how this progresses. Thanks! Bio helped me via email with the design. I probably couldn't have done it without him. The manifold has 4 exhaust ports with hose barbs. The first one feeds my phosphate reactor, second is currently unused but may be populated with a calcium or phytoplankton reactor later, third has a hose going to the refugium to increase flow and reduce pressure on the return pump (if needed), and the fourth valve on the left returns water to the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 This build is coming together very nicely. Looks like you did a great job with the plumbing on this! It's nice that we have such a great community of reefers that are willing to help out. Been reading your posts on this and I am learning a lot form this build, look forward to seeing this progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 throttling back a pump is fine but it does end up warping the impeller faster and it does allow more heat buildup in the system due to the resistance, which can cause a pump failure sooner. I personally will bleed pressure off before I throttle back if I can, but if I bleed pressure off and it makes my sump water move too fast I will stop the bleed off and throttle back, or just add new toys like reactors that can take some extra flow Back pressure on centrifugal pumps be it air or water does slowly cause damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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