nvrEnuf Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Been reading for over a month now; figured it was time to post! I sort of inherited a 29 gal bio-cube; and am getting on my way. I may tell the full story of how the tank came to me at some point or another; but for now let's start with what I know: 29 gallon cube failed reef tank with live fish; 99% of parts in order upon reception. 2 clowns and a royal gramma alive w/ live rock and sand. Parameters were horrible so I "rinsed" the rock and sand before re-assembly when the tank was brought home. It is probably important to point out here that I don't have a lot of experience with aquariums much less saltwater, but do have a good amount of common sense and firm grasp on chemistry and biology. So, seeing as how the fish were gonna die if I din't take them, here I am! Anyway, tank seems to be doing good other than two (minor?) issues: 1. slightly high PO which I plan to reduce the amount of sand bed to effect 2. Royal Gramma seems to have Ich which I am treating Nice to see Austin community thriving and look forward to getting to know more of you and more about this wonderful hobby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Welcome and good luck with your inheritance. Sounds like you have done well so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Welcome to the club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 glad to meet and hear from you, im sure u have done your reasearch already but if u plan on having coral or any invertabrates in the tank, dont use any kind of copper to treat the ich in your main tank or it could take over a year like it did for me to leach all the way out of ur aquarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Welcome aboard. You may want to post a thread on a different forum to discuss your tank and its issues. Of the two minor points that you mentioned, how are you treating for ich? On point one, what is PO? Do you mean organic phosphate? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Welcome to the club. and good luck with the tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 welcome.....everyone here has been very helpful and friendly good luck and ask lots of questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwehrman Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gott Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Welcome! What a great gift you've inherited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Welcome aboard. You may want to post a thread on a different forum to discuss your tank and its issues. Of the two minor points that you mentioned, how are you treating for ich? On point one, what is PO? Do you mean organic phosphate? Patrick Thanks Patrick, I am treating Ich by reducing stress and feeding well. I think it was brought on by the stress of a rock collapse and subsequent heavy water change. Which is also what alerted me to high Organic PO. I don't have the option of a DT and have some soft corals in the tank; so, not a lot I can do but keep my fingers crossed. This brings me to a secondary treatment both for the ICH and overall tank = reducing the amount of sand. I am reducing sand at water changes and will fully clean and replace (with dry) when we have to move next month. My thinking here is that I am betting the tank is well over a year old and never had the sand bed so much as sifted, much less changed; and because of the ICH I don't want to do another major water change. Snails seem to do some good, but I was underfeeding to reduce and that could have also contributed to the stress bringing on the ICH. Lastly, I will be adding a UV filter wednesday or Thursday and an upgraded skimmer shortly after. Will the sand snails live without sand??? Thoughts welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Welcome aboard. You may want to post a thread on a different forum to discuss your tank and its issues. Of the two minor points that you mentioned, how are you treating for ich? On point one, what is PO? Do you mean organic phosphate? Patrick Thanks Patrick, I am treating Ich by reducing stress and feeding well. I think it was brought on by the stress of a rock collapse and subsequent heavy water change. Which is also what alerted me to high Organic PO. I don't have the option of a DT and have some soft corals in the tank; so, not a lot I can do but keep my fingers crossed. This brings me to a secondary treatment both for the ICH and overall tank = reducing the amount of sand. I am reducing sand at water changes and will fully clean and replace (with dry) when we have to move next month. My thinking here is that I am betting the tank is well over a year old and never had the sand bed so much as sifted, much less changed; and because of the ICH I don't want to do another major water change. Snails seem to do some good, but I was underfeeding to reduce and that could have also contributed to the stress bringing on the ICH. Lastly, I will be adding a UV filter wednesday or Thursday and an upgraded skimmer shortly after. Will the sand snails live without sand??? Thoughts welcome... Sand snail is not specific enough to comment. Drawf Florida Cerith live and multiply in sand beds. When time for lights out, they emerge to feed on microalgae and detritus. They should survive, but not thrive. I must question your logic on removing sand. Is it to remove the organic phosphate? How did you determine that you have organic phosphate? Usually nuisance hair algae are most notable cynobacteria mats are good bio indicators of excessive nutrients with cynobacteria being the most obvious indicator of organic phosphate. How deep is your sandbed? I have kept DSB for many years with no need to replace sand. I suggest you use a gravel vacum at each partial water change. I never get deeper than the top inch of substrate. No matter how you do it, it you replace all sand, you will cycle your tank. Not a good idea with weakened fish due to the ich. You are correct about stress bringing on the outbreak of ich. Use garlic in your food, it will help with immune system. Also consider vitamins C. Both are available as a liquid concentrate. I soak food with both and use it all of the time. It is good preventative medicine. Enjoy the hobby, Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Welcome to the hobby! I wish I got a free tank when I first started... wait... I did! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hello and welcome Thanks for posting and I hope to hear more from you. Nice to get a free tank, and I guess it would be most unlikely to get it free if it were free from problems. Right? Kind of interested what your current params are now! I would be treating this like a new tank since when you moved it you rinsed the live sand and rock Was that a saltwater rinse? If yes then OK probably will experience some NTS New Tank Syndrom just from rmeoving the rock and sand and replacing it/ I'm sure others may disagree w/ this part of the advise so rtake it w/ a grain of sand (sorry for the pun) but if you remove live sand from a tank you are really better off just chucking it. Simply rinsing it off usually does not clean it sufficiently to make it dry sand again and safe for a saltwater tank. Normally you would rinse it off, dry it out and re rinse again and let redry to consider it safe to add to an existing tank. The problem w/ sand is once you disturb it, it will most likely become unstable and release toxins into the water such as phosphates, Nitrates, or toxic sulphers. Better to just dry and rinse and dry some new reef grade dry sand and use. I would be more concerned w/ the "live rock" If that was rinsed w/ fresh water then most likely there is no live bacteria left in the rock. And many of the sponges and critters living in the rock would die off causing there to be ammonia and the likes released into the tank. Did you resuse the water when the tank was moved or use all new water? About 10% of the living nitrifyang and denitrifying bacteria live in the water column. Just trying to get a feel for what you are up against. How about posting some water params for us to see. Just like a new tank we wouldee: Ammonia Nitrites Nitrates Phosphates Calcium Alkalinity Mmagnesium This could help us point you in the right direction As far as the iche goes,. You will have it in your tank forever now. Unless you completely break it down and bleach it out. Or by treating w/ a fallow period/. But this would require you to be able to move fish and you said this was impossible. Iche treatments w/ any product containing copper will kill any inverts including smails ect... To help the fish, not the inverts snails shrimp ect... just the gilled fish. You could dip them into a freshwater dip for only one minute. Make sure the water is warmed to the temp of the tank. This will cause the white spots to pop and give the fish some releive. Other than that like you said reducing stress can help the fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hey guys thanks for all the input! I wish I had time to answer all the individual questions but for now I will have to just generalize: I think I have the core problem isolated where the Gramma is concerned: the collapse, re-aquascaping, and introduction of a blue damsel cumulated in pretty much certain death in such a small tank. I am going to have to chalk that up to immaturity and apologize. As for the rest of the tank: all washing has been done in Saltwater; if I haven't stated: I was almost a marine biologist and then fun got ahead of reality. As for current parameters: Temp : 80F PH: 8.2 Salinity: 1.235+/_ Ammonia, trite, trate: 0 Cal: 440 (no supplements) Pho: 2 (added Phospan today and reason removing thought to be overloaded sand) KH: 9 not testing for MG (no corals yet) As to the rock: it has been kept SW since receipt and frags from the Dome have also been added. Dry sand will replace old live sand after moving in one month. Added yesterday: Biocube UV gen2 Everything but the gramma is doing great. Mushrooms growing, zoa's open and feeding, Macro's growing like weeds, Emerald and peppermint molting. At this very moment, the gramma has appeared in the tank and lethargically swims around a bit before either hiding or laying on the sand. I am pretty sure it comes down to the damsel or the gramma, and that just plain sucks. I'll check back here for suggestions before I make a choice in a day or so. Again, thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 With respect to organic phosphate in sandbed, it will not be detected in bulk water. The phosphate in bulk water is inorganic phosphate. That is why I asked you how you determined your sandbed had organic phosphate. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Thanks Patrick, i don't think I said I had organic phosphate, only that I detected high phos in the water column. Since I don't k now the age of the tank itself, I have to assume the sand (and hopefully not the rock too) are the source of the high PO4. Thus, the old sand comes out and new dry sand replaces it just to be safe. Thank you for you input! On something of the same note: The royal gramma did not make it and I returned the blue devil...everything seems to be returning to normal now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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