Powerhead Questions

[Planeden]

Hey all,

I have a few of powerhead questions. I am going to be adding powerheads to a 40 gallon system with a 20 gallon sump. I do not have the information on the sump return pump to know how much turnover I get from that, yet. I am thinking I may want to get two smallish powerheads to supplement (and churn up) the flow from the sump for a reef setup.

1. The Maxi-Jet 900 has a powerhead flow rate of 230 GPH and a circulation flow rate of 1000 GPH. What is the difference between these two numbers and how do I use them. I assume the powerhead flow rate is the number for the water turnover rate.

2. The Vortech MP10 ES just lists a "flow rate" of 200 to 1575 GPH. Is lower number the powerhead flow rate and the higher number the circulation rate? Or is this little guy that adjustable the the powerhead can be turned that far down and that far up?

3. Depending on the answers above, the two powerheads seem to have similar specs. On BRS the MP10 ES is $235 and the MJ 900 is $25. The MP10 ES is controlable in some fashion with a nifty little box that I don't understand yet. But that nifty box costs $55. So, what accounts for the 8X difference in price. I understand quality vs. price, but you can replace eight MJ 900 powerheads before you come to the cost of one MP10. I feel like i am missing a vital piece of information.

Thanks

[+Capt. Obvious]

vortechs are adjustable and have several modes, and the nifty little box is included

[esacjack]

in powerhead mode it hangs inside the tank or mounts to the glass via suction cups and literally acts like a box fan underwater. This is good for moving water around. As a circulation pump its designed to move water from the sump sans head pressure loss from distance from sump to DT.

The vortech mp10 is variable speed, so it can be turned up or down depending on your requirements. MP10's are literally powerhead mode only, but can be used as a wave maker.

[Planeden]

I see, thanks guys.

So, I suppose that for people that can afford it the MP10 is awesome and can't be beat. But for people on more of a budget the Maxi-Jet, or similar, will give you a good flow rate but fewer options?

[scubasteve92]

Have you looked at Koralias? I have 2 nanos that I had on my last tank and they were awesome!

[Planeden]

Have you looked at Koralias? I have 2 nanos that I had on my last tank and they were awesome!

i have not yet. but i will put those on the list to review. i have really just looked at a few, but enough to realize i don't know what i am looking for yet. these answers have certainly helped and i can start comparing apples and apples and not lions and bats.

once i get the tank and really start laying it out i will start a build thread where i will ask for a lot of detailed questions and be looking for any and all advice. that, hopefully, will keep me from buying all the wrong stuff. i will try not to pester everyone, but i really want this to be a good setup from the outset.

[esacjack]

I use Tunze powerheads, they're very quiet and add little to no heat in my tank. They're larger than most people prefer, but their orb shape allows you to aim them wherever you prefer.

[+brian.srock]

I also have a tunze, a 6045 ($92)rated at 1189gph @7w and it has a smaller footprint than a hydor mag 5 ($80) that I just picked up. Although the hydor is rated for 1650gph @8w you can clearly tell the tunze is pushing way more than the hydor. Money was the deciding factor for me in the tunze vs vortech and I do wish I had the vortechs but I just couldn't convince myself enough to spend $800+ on pumps

For your case though in Maxi-jet vs Vortech then it's hands town Vortech.

[Planeden]

I ordered some books and started on last night that suggested starting a notebook for livestock and their requirements. I suppose I should start that now and add a section on powerheads so i can keep all this straight.

thanks a lot guys.

[+Mitch]

The Vortechs have the motor outside of the tank, so you won't be adding heat to the water column as well as not have the possibility of an electrical problem / short. There's a large selection of possible flow patterns, eg constant, pulse, reef crest nutrient export, etc, that you can easily vary the intensity. The flow pattern is *wide*. When and if you add others, you can have them play nicely with each other wirelessly right out of the box (for the wireless models).

Edited April 9, 2013 by Mitch

[Planeden]

for the record, two MP10s would cost more than i paid for the tank, stand, sump, skimmer, and return pump. i was thinking two powerheads with lower flow rates. but, before i decide on anything i think i will set the tank up with fresh water and let it run for a while so i can see what the sump return flow rate is and what sort of flow pattern it has. at least until it total changes aft adding rock.

I think this will also give me an idea of the temperature. the tank will not get any direct sunlight, in a room that is fairly cool, and has a smallish LED light setup. i am hoping this will add up to "no heating trouble". but i have no experience with internal skimmers and pumps, so i have no idea what they will add.

oh, and i need to come up with a stock list, which so far seems to be water and live rock/sand. i think it is going to be mostly inverts, but after looking at some builds here and some FTSs, i'm not sure. there are so many options. i am really liking mhart032's 40g breeder right now.

all in all, more stuff to research. and the more i ask, the more i find i need to learn. this is a great help.

[Juiceman]

Don't buy a maxi jet as a power head! Total waste, and they're loud. Korelia is great for a low price and I way quieter than most power heads. Next would be tunze which are nice as well but a little more expensive.

I would never put anything other than vortech's on a big coral dominant tank. But that's me. Fish won't care.

[Planeden]

maxi-jet = BAD is going in the book.

[KevinB]

I've been very happy with my koralias

[Planeden]

So, it seems i'll basically be choosing between vortech, koralias, and tunze.

[jestep]

If price is a concern there's no reason to break the bank now. Get a JBJ or tunze 2 or 4 way wavemaker and 2 koralias, jbj pumps, or tunze's. Once of the biggest drawbacks with vortechs, is that for how great they operate, they're a loud pump. I can hear mine across the room right now, and they're on a low flow cycle. They're a luxury, and there's no reason losing sleep over them if cost is any factor in the tank.

[ShawnM]

I started my 55 with 2 Maxi Jets 1200 they work really good and the noise is only loud when turning on or off. I am in the process of switching to tunze. The only reason I am swithcing is because I want to put them on a wavemaker. Reefgeek sells them for really cheap and that is the reason I went with them. They also have a tendency to fall off the glass and blow sand everywhere this happened twice to me. It also fell off and change the flow in my tank causing my anemone to move and kill some of my zoas. I am now going to use them for mixing water. In my opinion go tunze. but if maxi jet is all you can afford you can always start it with them and upgrade later.

[Planeden]

Thanks, I will look at JBJ, too.

I'm not going to pretend that money is no object, but I'd rather spend a little more now and not have to worry about upgrading, or regret my decision. I also like the idea of getting a power head that can be incorporated with a wave maker if I decide to do that. I still have to get a better understanding of flow in general before I can figure that out. Right now all I really know for sure is that they like water blowing around in turbulent flows and dead spots are bad. And my ignorance is so high that when I saw the price difference between the two, I really thought that the maxi-jet must just be a nozzle and not have a pump included .

As to the falling thing, which sounds like it'd be pretty awful for everyone and everything involved, after struggling with suction cups getting old, slimy and losing suction I started putting them on with aquarium sealant. I'm not sure i would do it for a powerhead or something that is commonly moved, though. But the magnet attachments seem like they'd be a lot better.

[Planeden]

thanks again for all the previous advice. but, if i may trouble the smart people for more opinions...

i like the wavemaker and adjustability of the MP10s. You guys may have seen the threads about the Jebao MP40 and MP25 powerheads. all of the reviews for jebao (MP40 and their pond pumps) seem to be pretty positive. there are issues with the night sensor and the LED lights, but it seems that several powerheads have that problem. so, for a newbie would it be a bad idea to try this out, or should i stick with one of the above mentioned brands that have a more proven track record.

i am thinking that i may want to pick up 2 for my 40 gallon to give plenty of chaotic flow options, but it would also be a backup in case one dies. also, because i have no clue what i am doing when it comes to planning flow. from everyhting i have read, several small pumps is better than one big one. so i guess getting 2 would allow me to play with it and see what looks good and then worse case have a backup sitting around not being used.

all opinions welcomed and considered. thanks

[subsea]

Random chaotic flow is what most of us achieve in our reef tanks.

James Farthee, speaker at C4, described a vertical loop current that he set up using two Maxijet 1200 in a 55G tank. With both pumps at the top aimed at the opposite top, it created very aggressive circulation throughout the tank. His talk two years ago, at Next Wave in Dallas, was about the economics of circulation in main tank compared to large sump pumps used for increased circulation. The momentum of the inertia of water provides very robust circulation in a long tank that is narrow. It works very well on my 135 gallon 30" deep tank. I also added a component of air lift curtain. Using a small air pump, I lift water on one end of tank. On the opposite end of tank at the bottom, I installed a pump discharge toward the opposite bottom side. In my case, I used a Mag 18 as an external closed loop pump. I do not like pumps in the water, if I can, I will design them out of the system.

If you are not concerned with noise, consider a surge device, which a wave maker is one type. Some of the new smart designs are very nice. Because I am old school and frugal with my money, I will experiment on installing a surge tank above my 135G lagoon. It would dump 10 gallons of water when filled to a certain level thereby providing much random chaotic flow. On properly designed wave makers, the back and flow surge is very nice to observe with the proper livestock.

Enjoy your quest,

Patrick

[Planeden]

Random chaotic flow is what most of us achieve in our reef tanks.

James Farthee, speaker at C4, described a vertical loop current that he set up using two Maxijet 1200 in a 55G tank. With both pumps at the top aimed at the opposite top, it created very aggressive circulation throughout the tank. His talk two years ago, at Next Wave in Dallas, was about the economics of circulation in main tank compared to large sump pumps used for increased circulation. The momentum of the inertia of water provides very robust circulation in a long tank that is narrow. It works very well on my 135 gallon 30" deep tank. I also added a component of air lift curtain. Using a small air pump, I lift water on one end of tank. On the opposite end of tank at the bottom, I installed a pump discharge toward the opposite bottom side. In my case, I used a Mag 18 as an external closed loop pump. I do not like pumps in the water, if I can, I will design them out of the system.

If you are not concerned with noise, consider a surge device, which a wave maker is one type. Some of the new smart designs are very nice. Because I am old school and frugal with my money, I will experiment on installing a surge tank above my 135G lagoon. It would dump 10 gallons of water when filled to a certain level thereby providing much random chaotic flow. On properly designed wave makers, the back and flow surge is very nice to observe with the proper livestock.

Enjoy your quest,

Patrick

Thanks again patrick.

my tank is something like 36" long, 18" wide, and 16" deep. I am not sure if on a short tank adding a bubble curtain will practical with powerhead(s). But, I hope to have plenty of time to play with the flow before and after i start cycling. I am ordering 2 of the Jebao wp-25s (so much for my "I'd rather spend more for piece of mind", but you have to take some risks in life, right?). I am thinking that without throttling down my return pump (900 gph minus head loss which i have not calculated) that one powerhead will probably end up with more than 20X water movement. So one powerhead may go in a closet as a spare.

The way my tank is oriented, the main viewing areas will be the front and the left side. We are planning the aquascaping and powerhead placement to try to maximize the view of these two panels. so, the airlift curtain would also be covering one of the primary viewing panels. I plan to update pictures in my build thread later to show this a little better.

I saw your discussion of your surge device and that sounds pretty cool. It will not work with where I have my tank, unless I can move the "craft cabinet"...which seems unlikely. But the idea of having a display fuge with a pumpless overflow sounds practical and beautiful. I am not sure how many critters will be chopped up by the return pump on the way to the tank, but most people do it this way, so i guess enough get through.

I guess the wave vs. stocking list will also be included in my build thread. I figured all species would like waves, but it makes sense that they don't. deep water guys and lagoon guys probably would be confused.

man i have a tendency to go on and on.