Timfish

de Angler, do you have the reference for Dr. Fautin's research? I'm curious to see how old it is and if she distinguishes between species, I would expect very different success rates. Also, your 2nd reference just lists to a home page and I couldn't find a reference to anemonies using the search function do you have a more specific link for your reference?. I've only read through 11 or 12 of the threads the index of threads your first reference links to but from what I read several people were offering "how to" advice were Calfo spent most of his effort either advising not to cut or the issues with cutting that need to be dealt with to reduce problems. He even emphasized if propagating by cutting was going to be done only a single clone line should be maintained in a tank, different clone lines from the same species should be not be housed together. It seems to me he's agreeing with you, it should not be standard procedure and should only be done by experienced reefers with a dedicated system.

de Angelr, thank for posting the link! It was a interesting article on how clownfish behavior is influenced by the available resources. For the record A. xanthurus is now A. clarkii or Clark's clownfish. It would be interesting if this behavior of females sharing males or rather females and males having separate territories is documented in the other species (I did a quick search but didn't find anything). It seems reasonable to assume so but considering the disparity in the geographic distribution of the different species research may show it is a survival trait of only the species that have broad geographic distributions. (A. clarkii is has the widest distribution while some species are only known from only one island.)

+1

All of these will work but I would use Aquadome's approach first. Did the taxonomic description get changed on the cinnamon polyp? I thought is was Protopalythoa grandis.

I'm with Theresa, quarantining fish and corals cannot be over emphasized. IMO ARC should be very proactive about this especially at our frags swaps.

Mike, I'm really glad to see your effort to keep this a hobbyist-centric site. I've been keeping saltwater for over 24 years, read as much as I can but talking with other hobbyists and seeing their systems I've meet through ARC has helped me be a better aquarist! Thank you Andrew for the work you've done and thank you Mike for the work you're doing!

I've been using Instant Ocean since I started. I've tried some of the other brands over the years but didn't notice any difference in my tanks and have always gone back. I also have never bothered with using a TDS meter.

I gotta wonder though how many I might have if the parents weren't actively filtering the larval out (along with the sponges and corals)

No point in me playing the lottery anymore ! Found this baby clam in the sump of one of my tanks stuck to some eggcrate. Clam wasn't there 6 - 8 months ago and only inverts added in the last three years have been a GBTA 2 years ago and a couple of starfish three years ago. First two pictures are of the baby clam the third is of the parents. Parents showed up on some live rock about 10 years ago.

What Callahan and Nemirn said. Internal overflows are much more problem free and if designed/setup right are very quiet. You also do not need to have huge turnover rates between your refugium/sump and your tank. I have systems that have run for years with just a few turnovers per hour.

Most likely it's a sponge. If it's still alive and you are past any ammonia spike from curing the rock it should survive. Some sponges have a fair amount of movement and can close up when disturbed and some tunicates will look similar but if you look closely they will have a distinct intake and exhale openings similar to some clams. In the first picture of the second set you posted it looks like you may have two different corals the one just left of center my first guess is Oculina robusta, Robust ivory Tree Coral (order scleractinia, not part of the tree corals in the black coral group order Antipatharia). Dichocoenia stokesii, Elliptical Star Coral, and Favia fragum, Golfball Coral, are two other possibilities. In the same picture directly underneath it is what might be a small Oculina diffusa, Diffuse Ivory Bush Coral. Fortunately since these are on cultured live rock they are technically aquacultured specimens and are legal to keep. Collecting wild Florida corals is illegal. When I cure live rock I keep it raised off the bottom several inches with some eggcrate on pieces of PVC, this helps removing stuff that falls off and if there is a mantis shrimp you're more likely to find it. (My experience the odds of undesirables is low, there's a much greater risk I'm going to have fish that should cohabitate kill each other.) This is some real nice looking stuff! Just getting those two corals alone is probably worth the price and everything else is just frosting on the cake.

In addition to the excellent suggestions above may I add a blonde Naso for the 240 and if you give them space a Sarcophyton Toadstool and/or Sinularia or Nepthia fingers would get huge in the 240 and you can go ahead and get them now.

I would think it would work fine for most fish. Having the rock and invertabrates helps create a more complex ecosystem and you could use it for corals too but pretty much limits you to using a UV, metronidiazole and garlic products for ich. Most medications you will not be able to use without causing problems.

Nilsen and Fossa do a really good job of covering the "Berlin system" in Vol 1 of their book. It includes pictures throughout the maturing process and several of the pictures show all the rock with a very heavy dense coverage of nusiance algea. I am pretty aggressive adding herbivores and the easy aqaucultured polyps/corals (usually with in days of adding water as long as pH, alk and calcium are acceptable) and do not see what they had. It still takes about 4 months for coraline to make a decent apperance which is in line with thier documentation and this is when I start to expect the nusiance algaes to really slow down in thier growth. Even though I can get a tank going quickly and don't seem to have algae issues like some other people have (this admittidely may just be a difference of perception and experience) I still am of the opinion it takes months to a year for a system to mature. I also do not use a lot of live rock. I can't think of a set up where I used more than 1/2 lb per gal (I really hate these rule of thumbs as they don't convey at all the variables involved) and have used less than 1/4 lb per gal. using limestone primarily for the structure and live rock on top for looks and of course all the "stuff"

What struck me as funny thinking about your incedent was maybe we've developed animals that are just tempermental. This has to happen in the wild as large fish root around in the rock (flash to video of whitetip reef shark thrashing rock around going after a lobster) or huricanes or typhoons disrupt the sea floor. So if it is much more common in our tanks maybe we're selecting for anemoies that are just whinny complainers

In light of some of the some of the comments and opinions about the use of live rock and it's delitrious use in reef tanks I wanted to post what some of the experts in the aquarium industry have to say about it's role in reef aquariums. (For the record I'm defining "expert" as some one with an advanced degree and published research. As I do not have any kind of degree and seem to be getting more and more ignorant as I age I do not consider myself one and the best that can be said is I'm experienced [i'll leave it to the reader to decide at what ].) "Live rock is so important for the coral reef aquarium that we would like to deal with the subject in a chapter by itself" Nilsen and Fossa "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" Vol 1 pg 169. "Though great strides have been made in keeping saltwater life, much of the credit should go to the popularization of Live Rock". Robert Fenner http://wetwebmedia.com/liverock1.htm (there are a slew of pages on wetwebmedia.com identifiying the animals that come in on rock, expect to spend hours perusing them). "Live rock is a key component of a reef aquarium . . .". James W. Fatherree, M.Sc. http://wetwebmedia.c...k/live_rock.htm "Rumors among aquarists of terribly dangerous and voracious creatures entering the aquarium via live rock are frequently exagerated." Nilsen and Fossa "Reef Secrets" pg 59 And in thier discussion of the various filtration methodologies for reef tanks (ch 6) regarding setting up a tank with sterile rock and sand and "new tank syndrome" or cycling a new tank "In reef aquariums with live rock and their populations of associated bacteria this syndrome rarely occurs" Delbeek and Sprung "The Reef Aquarium" Vol lll pg 258. They discuss live rock more directly in ch 2. Over the years I have set up tanks without live rock, with cultured live rock and with wild live rock. By far my best results have been with wild live rock. Of the concerns of unwanted organisms I personally have encountered mantis shrimp only twice in the rock I have used (a tablespoon of salt works really well to get them out of thier hole with minimal damage to the other organisms on the rock). I have also encountered "Krakon" worms once, or nine times depending on how you count. (Fascinating worms actually, mouths look like souped up versions of the alien from "Preditor", segmented, each segment has one pair of legs and one pair of spines {not a clump af bristles}) I moved 200 gallon that I had been taking care of for over 6 years and in the move found 9 of them between 6" and 10". That they were nibling on some of my polyps and softies, probably, both groups did better after the move. Did they voraciously decimate the colonies in the tank, no. (That I negleted them in a some buckets and they died still bothers me [cold snap and they were in a draft by a door]. They seemed to me to exhibit some rudemntary form of comunication as they would vibrate the spines differently if they were undisturbed, poked or if they encountered each other.) Obviously Aptasia have entered the trade on live rock but I cannnot think of a single incedent where they were on any of the wild live rock I have gotten and only one vague memory on aquacultured. The following two pictures are just two examples of why I will continue using live rock (irregardless of what bacteria source I use to initally establish the system) This piece of live rock coninually buds off a fungia polyp. It is firmly attached until it reaches about 1 1/2" dia. then drops off. In about two months a new one forms. These green eyed Zoas and Palys came in on this piece of live rock. Beside the benefit all the micro organisms adding to the complexity and stability of the ecosystem getting animals like these only add to the beauty and value of my tanks.

Aah yeah, but me balancing a tripod on a skateboard didn't strike me as having a good chance of success and the visual of my tripod going through the front of a tank really sends the heebeejeebees up and down my spine . Skateboard wheels sound like a better choice than the hard plastic casters I used though. You'll need at least 8, 4 for the edges of the rails and 4 for the sides. Alignment needs to be pretty much exact and may take some tweeking. I used bungee cords to hold my tripod on but I'm sure there are better designs. I also have 20 lb lead blocks that hold the ladder in place without getting in the way of the dolly but I would think barbell weights or some such would work ok. Thank you Pat!

Plywood, casters and an aluminum extension ladder.

And the second: 600 gallon (actual) multitank system. Display tank is 500 gal 10' x 2.5' x 3', 6 additional sump tanks for equipment, cryptic and lighted refugiums. 30 gal weekly water change with RO/DI. Separate Calcium and Kalkwasser reactors. Salinity 1.023 pH 8.1 (Aqyadyne ?) alk ? Calcium ? nitrate ? phosphate - P .08 (Elos professional, no GFO used "mud" in lighted refugium has not been changed yet [3 1/2 years]) Mg 1280 (tested 04/11) Lights Display tank has 7 250 HQI in lumenmax elite reflectors (one 10,000K three each 14,000K and 20,000K) and 4 T5 54W actinic. The schedule is varied according to season with about 8-9 hrs in the summer and 11-12 hrs in winter. Lighted, 24/7, refugium has 2 6500K 54w T5 and 3 14W red/blue LED grow fixtures (I don't like them and am glad I traded some used stuff for them and didn't buy them) Supporting Callahan's comment about heat because of noise issues no chiller is used on this system cooling is all done by fans pulling in outside air. Observed temperature varies between 71 and 84. There is occasionally an issue at the extremes with some corals. Notably during last years "big freeze" the Birdsnest bleached partially losing most but not all of its brown and was noticably pinker for a couple of months before returning to it's normal coloration for this tank (there is obviously some variation due to the different bulbs used). Pumps 2 Dolhpin @ 3500gph 10x through the system. Display tank has 4 Tunze 6125 and 2 6105 (?) for an estimated 40X turnover in tank. Regarding the paramaters I can't remember they are tested periodicly, it's that they were acceptable so there was no need to give them further regard. Acceptable for me is pH 8.1 to 8.3, Alk 7-11 dKH, Calcium 350 & up. I have found if consistant maintenance is done Nitrates will be undetectable with Seatest or API even with wet/dry filters and do not test as nearly as often as the others.

I'm posting two tanks I take care of. Here's the first: 240 gallons 8' x 2' x 2', 20 gal water change every other week with tap water. 1/4 cup aragamight added with each water change. (This video was taken about 6 weeks after the original, very old, acrylic tank cracked and was replace with the current glass tank. 1 urchin was accedentaly crushed in the swap but no animals were lost due to the tank failure and miraculously only 2 or 3 gallons was actually spilled) Salinity 1.021 pH ? Alk ? Cal ? Nitrates - 0 (API) PO4 - 2 ppm !!! (I wouldn't normally tolerate this but this system doesn't seem to care so I'm watching it) Mg - never tested on this system Lights 2 250 HQI 10,000K in lumenmax elite reflectors Pumps 2 Koralia 2 (750 gph) one Aquaclear 70 one Aquaclear 70 feeding a 40W UV (currently turned off). Pumps are buried behind the rockwork so there is only minimum flow across the front of the tank. No external or internal filtering sumps/boxes/canisters/reactors.

Peyote, is the rock you're getting from Florida aquacultured? If so it's going to be pretty much the same as "Real Rock". I've started tanks with Florida aquacultured rock with very good success and seen little or no "cycle" when used with live sand. The cultured rock I've used recently has been pest free but but it was cultured in raceways like "Real Rock" is. If you are getting stuff that was cultured in the open ocean you can expect more diversity of animals (and the possibility of caribean corals) but you should go ahead and "cure" it in a separate tank like you would wild live rock (my preference). Robb makes a good point about aquascaping with dry rock. You could do most of it with dry local rock then add live sand and a few nice pieces of live rock. I've had very good results this way using about 1/4 lb per gal. When you add water to your tank to start it up I would do the refugium at the same time. As far as how to set up the system there are some good points above the only thing I would add is keep it simple and easy to access and maintain.

I'd say for all of the tank raised corals available and a lot of the maricultured or wild you've got plenty. I have tanks with less flow and more flow with equally good success. Still, I like the looks of a tank with a standing wave either a tunze or vortech wavemakers create and wouldn't hesitate to add those if cost isn't an issue. Delbeek and Sprung have a good chart in the back of their first volume of "The Reef Aquarium" which shows the acceptable range for lighting and water flow for different corals.

Myyitue is certainly right and I'm not in complete disagreement with Subsea. I think a properly sized UV is the most reliable way to control ick in a display tank. I would argue it's much better to use it on a quarantine system though. Don't believe the marketing hype some manufacturers use for sizing a UV to a tank. For example I've seen manufacturers say a UV will work on 120 gal. but it's based on dealing with green water algae blooms, ick is much harder to kill and when turnover/kill rate and bulb aging is taken into account the the same UV wouldn't be effective on anything larger than a 30 or 40 gal. tank. I like to size UVs so I have 1 or 2 turnovers an hour with a 100% single pass kill rate, more is better but UV's also act as heaters and heat is usually an issue in most tanks. I've also found them to be more effective if set up to take water directly from the main tank then return it back to the main tank than if set up between a sump/refugium and the main tank. (Since the larval are hatching out in the tank with the fish it seems to do a better job of killing the larval before they find a host and I've seen multi tank systems where a sterilizer was protecting part of the system but ick was surviving in one tank). There are differences in design and quality obviously, the designs that allow for permanent installation are typically more robust than most hang on designs and tubing fittings can be used to allow relatively easy removal for servicing. As always the simpler access is the better.

Glad to be wrong!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news and hopefully I'm totally off the mark but at quarter size have you ruled out the possibility of them being mojano anemonies? Some of my BTAs can be pretty small but even the smallest is still several inches across when open.