Timfish

It was good to see everybody, especially the new members! Here's the frag plugs made yesterday, they're still a little soft so I'll let them dry another day then soak them in vinigar to cure them. And the link for the Enkamat is: http://www.aquaticec...8/Enkamat-Nylon

Myself I would not try to keep thses colors but would let it grow it's brown zooxanthellae. Research is showing many of the pigments a coral makes is to protect itself from intense light1. What Intense lighting does is stimulate the coral to produce more pigments giving the coral brighter colors. In the case of florescing pigments many if not all are sensitive to just one wavelength. With low nutrient systems the colors are further manipulated by restricting the corals ability to grow zooxanthellae so the colors are seen against a much lighter tan or white background rather than the normal brown. Bear in mind that while the waters around reefs do not show much in the way of disolved nutrients there are actually high levels of nutrients in the way of particulates and plankton. The picture is much more complex than this as nutrition and trace elements play a part as does the lighting spectrum and there is a TON more research to do. 1 http://jeb.biologists.org/content/213/21/3644.full

Brown is the simbiotic zooxanthellae growing. To keep the colors pale you will have to do something to restrict the corals ability to grow them, either some kind of ultra low nutrient approach or low light. To be honest the coral looks like it bleached to me.

Here's a teaser! This is a hollow "pump tower" for Mike Frames tank build. It will house several power heads that can be pointed in different directions and remain hidden. I'm also going to demonstrate how to make "branch rock" using sand castings. Another demonstration compliments of Brian.srock will be how to make an aragacrete base for a "Drop off" tank minimizing the amount of dry and/or live rock needed. See ya'al tomorrow!

Looks like a fun project, I'm jealous! I don't know if this helps but here is a quick video of one of my systems. It only has about 5x turners per hour going through all the refugiums and only 10X in the last sump. It has two main pumps running 5x each with additional power heads in the main tank. You could run your system with fairly low turnover through the ancilliary tanks running two smaller pumps for redundancy and use power heads for additional water flow in the display tank and frag tank. If this was my tank I would put cabinet doors on the front above the tank, it will make accessing the tank a lot easier (saves a lot of time walking back and forth cleaning the glass). You could balance them visually with fake doors below the tank.

Deep Sea Aquatics, http://www.deepseaaq....net/index.php/ If it's a glass tank, you'll have to order through a LFS. I build my own acrylic tanks if needed but there are companies online.

The easiest fix is to just silicone a new piece of glass onto the inside of the broken piece. You could get a tinted glass if you like. A more complicated repair would be to cut off the broken piece and replace it. Both Hydro Innovations and Jaggedfire have threads on doing this.

LOl, my god where do you find these?!? i read the internet in it's entirety, every day. That explains . . ., well anyway I know a good therapist.

We get to play with clay! OK it's white portland cement mixed "dry" so it's the consistancy of clay.

It could be the clowns are killing off the new inhabitants but if l like you say they are ignoring newcomers I would be inclined to think something else is going on. If the fish you are adding are dieing in a couple of days I'm inclined to think they had something wrong with them before you got them1. If you add another fish after it has acclimated for several days try to observe if it is breathing a lot faster than the clowns. If it is I would be inclined to think you have a parasite or pathogen the clowns may be resisitant to. If you lose it I would wait a couple of months before adding another fish and be sure to add one that was treated for both intestinal and external parasites. 1I would not blame the LFS. From what I've read over the years and my own experiences it can take weeks or months for diseases to develop and kill a fish. At best we can quarintine them and prophylacticely treat for parasites but diagnosing many diseases is beyond our abilities.

Yeah, it was probably a gorgonian like you suspect. Try looking up pictures for "Sea Whips"

Excellent thread! It's good to see the step you took took to fix a problem in your system that so many people find vexing.

Interesting research looking at how Stylophora pistillata's growth is affected by temperature and pH: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3174978/

+1 to what jestep said. They are sometimes more prevalant during the first year a system matures. If you don't like the looks of them syphon them out but I personally would not make any effort to remove them or save them. There is a red species that can be unsightly and can reach plague porportions, those I will aggressively syphon out. Here's an article about them and a handy device for removing them http://www.melevsreef.com/flatworms.html I would add that personally I would never use a medication on a display tank that kills flatworms/planaria even if it is reef safe, most species are beneign and part of the ecosytem.

Bio balls make good cat toys. The more gunk on them the more enticing they are.

I think that will take several oceans and maybe a sea or two. Well it sounds like I'm going to need a (much) bigger tank. On the plus side you probaly won't need that seperate sump tank. and +1 to what Derrick said.

I think that will take several oceans and maybe a sea or two.

Here's my two cents (and probably over generalized): A taxonomist or microbiologist may be able to point to different species but it seems to me at the level most aquarists operate at the bacterial processes that perform the nitrogen cycle, converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, and the anaerobic bacterial processes that convert nitrate into nitrogen gas are the are the same irregardless of the methodology used. The differences between a DSB, mud or liverock are in the multicellular organisms and algaes that populate the different niches in the ecosystems the different appraoches create. One argument for DSBs is the anoxic areas will dissolve calcium and other components allowing water quality to be maintained without water changes or any other filtration. But as Victoly pointed out people have reported problems with DSBs fouling.

At least I'm in good company!

Honestly, I think "arguing" is an important part of my learning more about maintaining reef systems. It is sometimes the best way to get all the options out on the table and looked at. Hopefully I do not come across too negatively or condescending. All of the wet/dry systems I've converted to just basic sumps I did so when it was convienent and saved labor, usually this was during a move and it simplified setting a system back up. This one system I keep original because it is the one I had Yellow Polyps (zooanthiid sp.) release eggs in I reported in my thread http://www.austinree...._ polyp porn As far as being more work after removing any mechanical filtration some are designed to include I have not found them to be more work than tanks with just empty sumps like the sump used on this system http://www.austinree...he +odds! I also do not understand why wet/drys should produce more nitrates than any other system. The end product of the nitrification process is nitrates and as I understand it this bacerial process is the same irregardless of the ecosystem and the amount of nitrate present is a function of the food introduced to the system and how the other organisms ie micro and macro algae, corals (more algae), plants and facultive anaerobes use it. Having healthy coral growth in my experience is what will keep nitrates low at least in part by removing ammonia before bacteria have a chance to feed off it. I also prefer to do small weekly water changes but I have not looked at what would happen long term without water changes. However, as reported by Delbeek and Sprung in thier article in FAMA, December 1990 Dr. Juabert did maintain corals and fish without water changes and demonstrated a gradual drop in nitrates over a four year period from .350 mg/l to .013 mg/l. You make a good point and I agree. The Cost/Benefit/Risk equation is a huge part of setting up a reef system and unfortunately one I feel is frequently overlooked or poorly evaluated when setting up a system 1. Too often I have seen systems set up with unnecesary or expensive equipment or convoluted filtering systems but no thought was given to what it takes to maintain said equipment, add impulsive and poorly researched livestock purchases and the system fails because the labor cost to maintain it apropriately for the animals selected was too high. 1. I am often asked "What's the best filter for corals" and spend several minute explaining marine aquarists are keeping many thousands of species and many of these species have both naturally occuring as well as aquarium adapted variants. Even very closely related specimans can demonstrate very different requirements and it is impossible to say that any one methodology or set of lighting conditions will work for every animal, or algae, that is available to the aquarist. Ideally the animal (or algae) lighting and filtering methodology should be researched before setting up a system. Also these systems are capable of lasting decades if properly cared for so long term planning is important.

As far as using an internal or external pump I would only use few turnovers per hour through the sump and to keep it simple would use an internal pump. If you want a much higher turnover per hour through your sump then I would go with an external pump to reduce heat transfer to the water. Looking at the differences between Dr. Shimeks approach and Dr. Jauberts approach to DSB what it tells me is both work fine (which is best will take long term research I wouldn't bother waiting for). So I would go with what you think will be easiest to use and maintain. If you want liverock in the sump I don't see an issue with using eggcrate to keep it an inch or two off the sand/mud. While it may be true DSBs may be falling out of fashion that is the way of fads anyway. It certainly does not mean they can not be effective ways to maintain reef systems. Dr. Jaubert's original research in the '80s showed reef systems could be kept for years with DSBs and no pumps, skimmers or external filtering systems. I am reminded of when I first heard wet/drys cause high nitrates. I was quite surprised as NONE of the systems I kept with wet/drys had measurable nitrates. And one wet/dry system I still have running now for over 15 years still does not show nitrates. So are wet/dry systems prone to nitrates? Maybe, but the picture is much more complex. I suspect once wet/dry filters were blamed by somebody many individuals who had problems because they were not maintaining thier system properly just used wet/drys as an excuse. And wet/dry's are still being sold and still keeping reef systems going.

Thought I'd post this picture of how NOT to set up a DSB. This was pulled out of a tank a Jaubert DSB was used in conjuction with a calcium reactor run with very strong CO2 flow for a very long time. The result was literally a solid mass that had to be jack hammered out. (Friend of a friend had to do move a tank and gave me a piece, I think I would have passed on the job.) A calcium ractor can be used if desired but it needs to be monitored. In addition to Reefreak's link of a system just using a DSB, Dr. Jaubert was maintaining multple reef systems for years using just airbubbles for circulation (no pumps) and no water changes. It was interesting and informative reading the artcle by S. Garret on Reef-Eden although he did not appear to be aware of Dr. Juabert's research done at the Nice Aquarium in the 80's. I also found it curious was Dr. Shemik also did not mentioned Dr. Jauberts research. For a different view of how to set up a Deep Sand Bed see Delbeck and Sprungs "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III or see this article by Julian Sprung: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature Two notable differences between Dr. Shemik and Dr. Jaubert is grain size and use of a plenum. While Dr. Shemik want's partcles smaller than .2 mm Dr. Jaubert uses grain sizes as large as 5 mm. Dr. Jaubert uses a plenum underneath the sand bed and while Dr. Shemick states it is not neccessary Julian Sprung catagoricly states a sand bed will operate better with a plenum.

Dr. Juabert's research the DSB was in the DT and there's specific notes rock did not cover more than 30% of the sand. The mud system I have the square footage of the mud bed is about 2/5s the square footage of the DT. Some people may argue a mud bed 5" deep is not the same as a sand bed, it's one of those things I haven't bothered to look up the arguments for or against.

Easy to see why you didn't part it out!

You know I guess I was too broad in my statement and should have done a better job of qualifying it. I also like mine with garlic and some butter as well