Tank Advice - Corals Don't Look Great

[codyja]

Hi All,

First post here, but wanted to see if I could get some advice from the community. I'm trying to focus on mostly SPS corals, and have a couple acans. The problem is my corals are just decent looking, and some just don't really look good at all. For example, I have a Green pocillopora that has been completly white with just a little bit of green extension since I got it. I have a Green Millepora that has changed from a dull purple to a pretty green, but never has any polyp extensions. Really none of the SPS has polyp extension except for some very slightly at night. The Acans looks good for the first couple days, but have been withdrawing since and are showing quite a bit of skeleton. I have one of Dan's fuzzy Milleporas that looked good for the first week or two, but the last few months it has started loosing color and is a really light purple, and no polyp extension. A birdsnest has started to look a better color, but doesn't really grow. I do have an orage monti cap that is growing though. I do have a few fish, small coral beauty and a few small damsels and Chromis. I feed a variety of foods, mostly frozen, plus some Reef Chili. I also use Red Sea Reef Energy A/B a few times a week.

For equipment, I have a 40Gal breeder with a 20Gal sump that I started in February. I have a 250W MH single ended bulb, 14K, and two 36" x 39W T5's. One T5 is actinic and one is just a white growth light, both ATIs. The T5s are on for 10 hours, and the MH is on for 6 hours a day. For flow I have a Maxspect Gyre and a hydor powerhead with what seems like good flow throughout the tank. I have a fan blowing on the water to keep temps down, and are pretty steady in the 77-79 degree range. I have an auto doser dosing 2part, and keep the ALK around 9 now (was previously at 10 but have been backing down), and Calcium is around 400. Salinity is at 1.026 usually and I have an ATO setup. I have a reef octopus skimmer that I empty the cup about every 1.5 weeks or so.

I'm sort of at a loss at this point. I'm wondering if the light might be too intense. Should I move to a 20K spectrum? I've also used a flashlight at night to check for anything abnormal and the only thing I ever see are snails. I had some snails breed at some point and always see a lot at night.

Thank you for any advice!

[jolt]

How often do you check Alk and what testkit do you use?

[codyja]

Attached a few pics.

I'd say I test Alk every 2-3 days as I've been trying to get it down. Test kit is Red Sea. I also didn't mention my PH is usually around 8, but I tested about 3 days ago and it was 7.8. Also, Nitrates/Nitrites/Ammonia always show 0 on an API test kit.

[devildog1986]

Hi All,

First post here, but wanted to see if I could get some advice from the community. I'm trying to focus on mostly SPS corals, and have a couple acans. The problem is my corals are just decent looking, and some just don't really look good at all. For example, I have a Green pocillopora that has been completly white with just a little bit of green extension since I got it. I have a Green Millepora that has changed from a dull purple to a pretty green, but never has any polyp extensions. Really none of the SPS has polyp extension except for some very slightly at night. The Acans looks good for the first couple days, but have been withdrawing since and are showing quite a bit of skeleton. I have one of Dan's fuzzy Milleporas that looked good for the first week or two, but the last few months it has started loosing color and is a really light purple, and no polyp extension. A birdsnest has started to look a better color, but doesn't really grow. I do have an orage monti cap that is growing though. I do have a few fish, small coral beauty and a few small damsels and Chromis. I feed a variety of foods, mostly frozen, plus some Reef Chili. I also use Red Sea Reef Energy A/B a few times a week.

For equipment, I have a 40Gal breeder with a 20Gal sump that I started in February. I have a 250W MH single ended bulb, 14K, and two 36" x 39W T5's. One T5 is actinic and one is just a white growth light, both ATIs. The T5s are on for 10 hours, and the MH is on for 6 hours a day. For flow I have a Maxspect Gyre and a hydor powerhead with what seems like good flow throughout the tank. I have a fan blowing on the water to keep temps down, and are pretty steady in the 77-79 degree range. I have an auto doser dosing 2part, and keep the ALK around 9 now (was previously at 10 but have been backing down), and Calcium is around 400. Salinity is at 1.026 usually and I have an ATO setup. I have a reef octopus skimmer that I empty the cup about every 1.5 weeks or so.

I'm sort of at a loss at this point. I'm wondering if the light might be too intense. Should I move to a 20K spectrum? I've also used a flashlight at night to check for anything abnormal and the only thing I ever see are snails. I had some snails breed at some point and always see a lot at night.

Thank you for any advice!

Hey there, what are your levels as far as phosphates, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite? How often do you do water changes? And how big of a water change do you do? Also, if you can find someone to loan you a par meter. You'd be able to rule out too much lighting. Corals like Acans and, any LPS really can only handle so much light. I would drop the alkalinity a bit, and raise calcium to about 420. That's my optimal level. Your salinity is good. Be careful with how much you feed. With small tanks, things can "hit the fan" fairly fast. Make sure your dosed is dosing the proper amount as well. In other words try dosing manually for a week to see if it makes a difference. My money is on to much light or more frequent water changes, but you never know. Good luck. Feel free to message me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[codyja]

Sorry, didn't mention my other test kit is an API and Nitrate/Nitrite/Amonio is always 0. I just realized I'm not testing phosphate though, so I'll get a kit. I've only done one 15 Gal water change since I've had it setup. I took this advice from a local shop owner. I've been thinking recently my Alk should be in the 8 or 9 range, so I'll see about doing that too. It's at the upper 9 range now.

[jolt]

I think it's generally considered bad to have higher alk (> 8 or so) with low nitrate/phosphates (low might be something like < 3 nitrate, and < 0.1 phosphate). It seems like a few things going on, but I do suggest you consider a water change, there might be something in there irritating things. But you also might want to get nitrates and phosphates a little higher. More fish and feeding is usually considered a good way to do that.

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

You do have a high alkalinity to low nutrient ratio. That may be causing some stress on the corals. Also, did you slowly acclimate your corals to the tank and the light? I always start my corals in the most shaded part of the tank and slowly move them up the rocks towards higher light. I've had corals bleach and die in the past from sticking them directly under my lights after acquiring them. I may lower the light intensity by raising the light itself or moving it away from the tank so it's not laser beaming the corals.

[Isaac]

Whats the magnesium at. alk+cal+mg are closely related, if one of them is off, the other 2 are essentially not used efficiently. Check your Mg.

Like in my case, my alk is high lately, so i need to add more magnesium and calcium to get the trio in sync, which would lower my alk over time.

[JasReef]

Is your gyre a 130 or 150? Also what is it set at? In a 40g that could be a lot of flow, it could be part of the problem with the polyp extension.

If not that I would think your phosphates and maybe nitrates are way to high. The Reef energy is designed to work in a ULNS so until you know where the numbers are I would discontinue that. You may want to check some local shops and see if they will test for you.

I would do about a 10g water change weekly until you get the numbers figured out.

It sounds like you have a good setup so once you get the numbers worked out you should be fine but keep in mind it might take a couple months to recover.

[Timfish]

+1 on getting PAR readings (if you use a lux meter divide by 50 to get approximate PAR). I for one would not worry about phosphate unless it's above .5 mg/l (average on reefs is .13 mg/l). And keep in mind amino acids are organic nitrogen corals use in place of inorganic nitrogen (ammonia & nitrate).

To get a better idea on the relationship of inorganic phosphate (we can't test for organic forms corals use) and inorganic nitrogen (again, we can't test for organic forms corals use) here's a some links:

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/umrsmas/bullmar/1979/00000029/00000004/art00011

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/16/2749.full

http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/file/Nutrient%20enrichment.pdf

[devildog1986]

Just in case it helps. The optimal levels that I have had a lot of success with are calcium @420ppm, alkalinity @ 8.5dkh when I had enough corals to use it up. But if not many I would shoot between 7.5 and 8dkh, and my magnesium I start @1300 ppm and move up to 1350 ppm. I have never tried going over 1350, and my corals were happy. Water changes are a very important part of small aquariums. Once you cycle a tank for 45 days ( which is what I shoot for) you have beneficial bacteria. But not enough to to handle heavy feelings or a lot of corals. Specially, if you don't have much live rock in the tank. A tank takes about a whole year to fully mature and build up all that beneficial bacteria. If the water changes don't work. Focus on your lights. If it's hard to find a par meter. Simply raise your lights 6 inches every couple a days, and see how your corals respond. Good luck. Like I said, feel free to message me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jolt]

Well, ask for advice on ARC and you shall receive!

In my experience trying to change too many things all at once can be overwhelming, because when things get better/worse you will not be sure which thing you did was the prime contributor. If it were me, I would pick one or two things to focus on until I was sure they were not the issue. For example, it's pretty easy to check the par on lights and that could be knocked out quickly. What part of town are you in? There might be someone willing to help you with a par meter if they knew you were close by ...

[codyja]

I appreciate all the responses from everyone! Tons of good info that I will use.

I just did a test and here are the numbers:

Alk=9.8

Cal=410

Mg=1280

I have the Gyre 130 that I keep dialed up pretty high. Maybe I should turn that down some.

Jolt, I'm in Jonestown, but work in northwest Austin/Cedar Park area. I'd love to try a PAR meter if someone could help.

I think the immediate changes I'll continue working towards are decreasing Alk, increasing calcium slightly, and increasing Mg, then keeping stable. I would consider it a ULNS so the high alk issues are making sense.

[Dan H]

You've certainly gotten a lot of advice and most of it seems spot on. As Jolt mentioned, I would focus on 1 param at a time. I would start with the magnesium as that's super easy to fix and monitor... Plus in my opinion, that's the most likely problem. I've had my SPS get upset when my mag falls below 1350.

[Sascha D.]

Which corals do you have that are doing well? What is their placement? Do you know the PAR ratings where the corals are placed? Speaking only for myself, I've had corals turn white, but continue to grow slowly, when the lighting was low or the nutrients were too low.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[codyja]

Sascha - The Monti caps, alien eye chalice and trumpet corals are all doing good. A pocillipora and a few Acros aren't though.

I was fortunate enough to have Jolt come out and take a look at my tank today! We took PAR readings throughout the tank, I'm attaching a picture of the results. I'm going to order a Salifert nitrate and phosphate kit before I do anything else. I've never seen anything other than zeros on the API test kits. After that I'll think about increasing the bio load some. I'm going to order a Magnifying glass so I can check for red bugs as well.

Thanks again for coming out Jolt!

[jolt]

Just to follow up. The top part of the diagram above shows PAR measured at about 6" below water and on the bottom shows PAR at about 6" above sand. To me it looked maybe like low bioload/nutrients and possibly pests bothering the acros. I did not see evidence of flatworm bites, but all Acros that had been in the tank more than a couple of weeks showed no polyp extension at all and general browning/fading of colors (not bleaching). The monti digi and birdsnest looked stressed but possibly recovering. The monti caps looked great, as did the chalice. The hammer looked kind of medium happy, not too mad and not ecstatic. The poccilipora and acans looked a little starved to me. The PAR readings seemed fine to me. Flow might be a little low as the gyre looked like it needed a good cleaning.

[Sascha D.]

Good on you two for troubleshooting so well. It sounds like flow and nutrients is as good a place as any to start.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2