Snail Death

[+Mlaw]

I have been adding snails to my new tank over the past month with poor results. Basically after acclamation I add them and they just sit there. Eventually it becomes clear that their dead.The most recent round of nassarius snails are acting oddly in that they are mostly on their backs with their foot extended my melanaurous wrasse and imperator angel pick at them. I have rolled them back over onto their front but when I come back their back on their backs. I'm not sure if they're putting themselves on their backs or if the fish are doing it to them.

Are they dead or just playing possum?

[nvrEnuf]

Never seen this myself.

[Woods]

My guess is the fish are doing it. After you right side the snails, spend some time in front of your tank (at a distance) and watch them. After 30-60 minutes you will know. But make sure you are far enough away from the tank you aren't influencing your fish behavior but close enough to see what is going on... Tank observation is always key for solving many problems.

[Reburn]

The only chemistry reason I have seen for snails to die quickly like that is Mg really high. Like 2100+ high not like 1500-1600.

So unless your Mg is off the charts I would do as others have said. Grab a couple beers and sit and watch for an hour.

[+Mlaw]

I don't know if the fish kill them to begin with but they are definitely rolling them over. I'm now observed it on multiple occasions. Anyone have any thoughts on Fish proof snails?

[FarmerTy]

I'd test your water. I'd doubt it's your fish. They are just capitalizing on the fact that the snails are lethargic and unable to fend for themselves. What's your acclimation procedure for the snails?

[+Mlaw]

I just did a water test and it was fine. I'll do another. I acclimate same as for fish. Drip.

[madsalt]

How soon after you put the nassarius snails in the tank are they on their back. I have found that once my nassarius snails hit the sand, they are buried and don't come out until night. It is very rare that I see mine in the day. I have had my green and red coris (when I had it) pick up snails but I can't say that I ever saw them aggressively go after them just pick.

[FarmerTy]

Could you share the water parameters and what your results were? Not to 2nd guess but it helps everyone paint a picture of what's going on with your tank.

[esacjack]

I have been adding snails to my new tank over the past month with poor results. Basically after acclamation I add them and they just sit there. Eventually it becomes clear that their dead.The most recent round of nassarius snails are acting oddly in that they are mostly on their backs with their foot extended my melanaurous wrasse and imperator angel pick at them. I have rolled them back over onto their front but when I come back their back on their backs. I'm not sure if they're putting themselves on their backs or if the fish are doing it to them.

Are they dead or just playing possum?

Im going through something eerily similar. My last three or four attempts to restock my cleanup crew, have resulted in mass casualties. I acclimate them, then set them in the tank. Generally within minutes they're dead. All of them. They extend out, and roll over on their back. I've done about 50 gallons in water changes, with zero change. I checked for stray current, etc, nothing. What mag supplement were you using? Was it by chance Tech-M?

[Sascha D.]

Melanurus Wrasse are not reef safe because they eat snails and fan worms. I have personally seem my adult male pick up Nassarius and Dwarf Cerith snails and smash them against the rocks until the shell broke. I have also seem them pick at turbos on the glass until they fell down and then pick at whatever they could nip.

[Reburn]

I know for fact that esacjack doesn't have a melanurus wrasse in his tank. Just a sixline.

[Sascha D.]

It could be two separate issues. Mlaw said in his first post that he has a Melanurus Wrasse and I was just sharing my experience. Some snails are bulletproof and some are finicky at best.

It would also depend on the type of snails. Margarita Snails have a short life span at temperatures above 70 degrees and they might become rigid while dying. I've seen Turbo Snails do what he describes when the oxygen levels get low, but never Nassarius.

[esacjack]

this is actually happening to all of my snails simultaneously... they extend their foot, roll over on their back, and poof...dead.... two triton tests, a full panel of tests from my kit, and others.. I started to think leaking/stray current, but have been running current tests regularly... Cant seem to find anything wrong... Oxygen saturation is a good point to check... I'll have to check my scrubber..

[mFrame]

this is actually happening to all of my snails simultaneously... they extend their foot, roll over on their back, and poof...dead.... two triton tests, a full panel of tests from my kit, and others.. I started to think leaking/stray current, but have been running current tests regularly... Cant seem to find anything wrong... Oxygen saturation is a good point to check... I'll have to check my scrubber..

Purchase snails, divide in two groups. Have a friend take one group and see if they have the same result?

[Bpb]

Where are you purchasing them from? I purchased my one and only ever CUC bulk from reefcleaners. They ship their snails dry (or mostly, in a damp paper towel). NO acclimation needed at all. just float the bags to get the snails warm. Pull the bags out, toss the snails right in. In an order which probably contained close to 100 various sized snails...zero noticeable casualties due to acclimation. Lost ALL the dwarf ceriths over time likely due to hermit crab predation

[+Mlaw]

I've been buying them from River City. I have now tried cerith, nassarius and turbo. I got really big turbos this last time and put them in the sump so there would be no fish attacks. Died on contact. Never extended, never moved.

I ran water tests last night. 0 on copper, nitrate and nitrite were 0 also. I had a slight hit on ammonia (probably due to dead snails.). I can't remember ph right now but will go look it up later. Jake over at RCA also tested my water and got 0s across the board but that was pre turbo death.

I realize that copper could be present in an amount that is not detectable with my home test. I'm going to start running carbon and do a water change and see if that helps.

Something I failed to mention in my first post is that any macro algae I add to the sump dies quickly. I"m assuming there is a link.

[M6S1K3]

I can't speak for the macro algae and I might have missed it. But you are acclimating right? Yea snails are no fish or coral but acclimation is still key. If so. Disregard this message. If not. Are they dying in the bag/ container you pour them in and start a drip acclimation? Do they slowly close up in this process the more your MT water mixed with the water they came from?

Just some thoughts.

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[Reburn]

I'm not sure where you got you information that acclimation on coral and inverts is key. Largely speaking most people don't acclimate coral unless you know it's a big colony or it's a known picky piece. I just float them, dip them, rinse them and throw them in.

The same goes for inverts. The only inverts I have ever acclimated is cleaner shrimp and nems. I have never acclimated snails, crabs and hermits and most people don't. Again, I just float them and throw them in.

I can speak for Esacjack and I know he has tried the float and throw technique as well as the acclimation technique. Neither has worked to keep them alive.

He has been doing very frequent large 10%-40% water changes. This has helped some. All panels on all parameters before the large water changes have come back good from, Him, Me, RCA, and Triton on his source water and tank water. The only thing that is left is the city must have been flushing the water lines with chemical one day when he was making water. Some of the Chemicals will bypass the RODI system and are not testable. This is the only thing we have come up with. Before starting water changes he sterilized all his barrels and made fresh water. He had half the snails make it this last go round. Day 4 and 6 snails are still alive. We have our fingers crossed. The water changes continue.

For reference he has used a full Bucket of RSCP doing wtaer changes on a 46 bow front and sump.

[M6S1K3]

Ok awesome. Just trying to help. Most of this hobby is preference/ opinion. He'll some people haven't done water changes in years. Some do weekly. Are either right or wrong. Absolutely not. I've acclimated everything I've ever put in my tank and, knock on wood, I've never had one death. Ever. (From water parameters that is/ addition of new livestock.) Do I need to acclimate Zoas. Probably not. Or most invert. No. Does it hurt? No not necessarily. I've had either amazing luck in my tank with growth and propagation and lifespan or I'm doing every thing right. I don't believe either statement is true as there are no right or wrongs really and I know for a fact I am not a lucky person haha.

Sorry to mlaw if I gave false information. again. Just trying to help and use my luck/success in such an area as some basis to my post.

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[Reburn]

The only time acclimating is bad is if you float the bag and get it to temapture and then drip the bag while its outside the tank and the temapture fluctuates again and then you toss the fish into the tank at a different temapture then what the bag was.maintaining constant temp through out the process is important.

[M6S1K3]

Agreed. I maintain temp throughout. Only trying to help

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[FarmerTy]

I actually acclimate everything... fish, corals, and cleanup crew.

The first thing I do is test the water that's in the bag. For fish, I only focus on acclimating to temp and salinity. For corals, I add acclimation for alk too (mainly talking SPS here) on top of temp and salinity. For cleanup crew, I take extra long to match the salinity... those little buggers are usually pretty intolerable of salinity changes.

[+Mlaw]

I acclimate everything also. No where near as thoroughly at Ty but we can't all be awesome....

I tried acclimating and not with snails and nothing really seems to help. I haven't checked salinity in awhile. Last time RCA said it was fine, but I'll check it again.

I think I'm going to get my carbon, gfo and bio pellets up and running. I have the equipment but haven't had the time. Then I'll do a large water change and some basic clean up of gunk (fish poo) that has accumulated in a few spots with weak current. Give it a few weeks and then try again.

And M6S1K3 I appreciate your input.