Experiment in Filtering Tap Water

[Planeden]

When I started this hobby, I was trying to take the advice of most people and going to use RO/DI water. But I was having trouble with the initial expense of the system, the labor of installation was too much to counter my inherant laziness, and there was too much waste water for my tastes with nothing useful for me to do with it. So I found, and started playing with, an alternative.

The Drs. Foster and Smith tap water filter with an initial cost of $40 including one $20 filter. It has a valve that hooks onto the sink with a replacement aerator. And there is zero waste water (if you discount the cup or two used to get the flow rate correct and whaterever i slop onto the floor due to laziness and idiocy). I will say that the aerator is pretty cheap, so I take it off and put the real one back on after each batch.

I started using it, and I think I was getting about 50 gallons per filter, for apprxomiately $0.40 per gallon ($0.33 if you buy filters in bulk). It was giving me about 11 ppm on my TDS meter. Not being that sure how water works, I was still using prime in case the chlorine would be the last to go. Then I had a thought. The way the hook up is so simple, I bought a second one and installed two in series. Now TDS is 0 ppm. Not being a waterologist, I can't be sure, but it would seem that 0 ppm is 0 ppm whether it comes from an RO/DI system this filter system. It also does this at between 7 and 10 gph.

I am now tracking how much water I can make with each filter. I think the way that it should work out, I will be getting a lot more life out of the second filter that just gets 11 ppm TDS to filter out. One thing i need to watch out for is that when the filter goes out it will spill stuff into the water increasing the TDS over the tap water. So, I will need to monitor the first filter or it will fowl my second one very quickly.

[jestep]

I believe they're just a massive IX bed. Have always seemed way too expensive for what you get to me. I thought about these several times when I was in to discus, and with weekly 50% water changes, it calculated out to roughly $15 per week for my tank size and how hard Austin tap water is.

[victoly]

It will turn your second filter into a bird?

[Planeden]

I believe they're just a massive IX bed. Have always seemed way too expensive for what you get to me. I thought about these several times when I was in to discus, and with weekly 50% water changes, it calculated out to roughly $15 per week for my tank size and how hard Austin tap water is.

what is the cost of RO/DI water per gallon? i thought it was close to $0.30

It will turn your second filter into a bird?

the expired filters have a feathery appearance. (i guess that should have been foul?)

[Sascha D.]

I haven't gotten around to buying a water filter yet. My water still comes from the tap. I haven't noticed any negatives yet, but I don't need perfect water for what I'm doing.

[Sherita]

It will turn your second filter into a bird?

Would you PLEASE put a spit warning on stuff like that?

The whole filter/don't filter/rodi thing....it's really just up to what works for you (general you, not "you"). I run a 150 gpd rodi, six stage. My tds going into the system is 178, coming out of the membrane it's down to 4, out of the DI resin is 0. My system cost right at $300, I change filters every three months ($38), and as an average I make 100 gallons a week. I pay .016/gallon from my city. Assuming that I'm running a 4/1 ratio (no idea, never needed to check it till now), my 100g/week is actually 500g/week usage. So:

City water per month $32

filter/resin cost/month $12.66

Water produced/month 400g rodi

So, someone smarter than me can figure out what the water is costing per gallon. And I have no idea how to factor in the initial cost of the filtration system, nor do I have any idea if I actually calculated that right. But I do know that it's far more convenient for me to have my rodi here at the house, rather than driving to buy water, and I want pure water for my reefs. So, it's a win/win for me. YMMV.

[victoly]

I was gonna guesstimate 3:1 costs for dennis system vs RODI, granted sherita has a very good RODI system, so if you aimed for more "value", youd probably be under 10c/gal,

[Neon Reefer]

You can buy RODI at 20 cents a gallon, so is really that much trouble to haul it in once a month?

[victoly]

Yes.

[Sherita]

You can buy RODI at 20 cents a gallon, so is really that much trouble to haul it in once a month?

I live 60 miles from the nearest LFS, and I use nearly 400g a month. So, yeah, it is

I'd need a tanker just to haul my water from the lfs.

[Planeden]

Sherita: I don't know how to factor in the initial costs either. but your costs are very low. so, mine is very expensive by comparison. but you make a lot more of it than i do, as well. even at that rate, you may spend more on water than i do each month especially once you get that 1000g lap reef.

Vic: 3:1, i thought i was getting a little better than that, but ok. you clearly have more insight in RODI. it still works as an alternative to me. others will decide on their own.

Neon Reefer: I would use 2.5 gallons of gas to get to RCA for $0.20 per gallon. At the Dome it is $1.00 / gal. and this way I don't have to have as many jugs and work around their hours.

[Neon Reefer]

And I guess some of us stand in front of a microwave tapping our foot saying "Come on popcorn hurry up why don't cha"

I can see Sherita's point but... and I had no idea they charged that much for water in S. Austin Well I guess $20 would be a bit much.

[(Bio)³]

Rodi upstairs and downstairs.... way easier than carrying water :-P

[Planeden]

And I guess some of us stand in front of a microwave tapping our foot saying "Come on popcorn hurry up why don't cha"

I can see Sherita's point but...in Austin?

I would imagine Planeden you are using what ~ 20 gal.per month in RODI. Maybe 8 in water changes and maybe anther 10-12 in evaporation loss at most, so you'd be talking about $4 to buy and 4 - 5 gal containers at 40 lbs each container. I dunno doesn't really seem like a burden to me. I mean personally I like to go to the LFS and water gives me a great excuse. Besides they'll always load it in for you. Or they will for me, but I'm old

lately i've been doing frequent water changes and making 20-25 gal per week. but more of the problem is getting to the store. sure, going to the store and looking at fish is fun, but the hours on the LFS leave it hard for me to get the consistently. so, it is not good to be dependant on being able to drive to get water, bi weekly or so. i have been working at least 10 - 10+, 6 days a week with my one "day off" i am volunteering during LFS time. so, yeah, buying LFS water, much less water that is 45 min away (each way) to save $0.10 - $0.20 is a bit on the silly side.

PS: i'm actually more of the put popcorn in the microwave, wander off, and come back 3 hours later with "why am i hungry, i made popcorn".

[victoly]

And I guess some of us stand in front of a microwave tapping our foot saying "Come on popcorn hurry up why don't cha"

I can see Sherita's point but...in Austin?

I would imagine Planeden you are using what ~ 20 gal.per month in RODI. Maybe 8 in water changes and maybe anther 10-12 in evaporation loss at most, so you'd be talking about $4 to buy and 4 - 5 gal containers at 40 lbs each container. I dunno doesn't really seem like a burden to me. I mean personally I like to go to the LFS and water gives me a great excuse. Besides they'll always load it in for you. Or they will for me, but I'm old

lately i've been doing frequent water changes and making 20-25 gal per week. but more of the problem is getting to the store. sure, going to the store and looking at fish is fun, but the hours on the LFS leave it hard for me to get the consistently. so, it is not good to be dependant on being able to drive to get water, bi weekly or so. i have been working at least 10 - 10+, 6 days a week with my one "day off" i am volunteering during LFS time. so, yeah, buying LFS water, much less water that is 45 min away (each way) to save $0.10 - $0.20 is a bit on the silly side.

PS: i'm actually more of the put popcorn in the microwave, wander off, and come back 3 hours later with "why am i hungry, i made popcorn".

Youre gonna need an autoshutoff valve...

[Planeden]

And I guess some of us stand in front of a microwave tapping our foot saying "Come on popcorn hurry up why don't cha"

I can see Sherita's point but...in Austin?

I would imagine Planeden you are using what ~ 20 gal.per month in RODI. Maybe 8 in water changes and maybe anther 10-12 in evaporation loss at most, so you'd be talking about $4 to buy and 4 - 5 gal containers at 40 lbs each container. I dunno doesn't really seem like a burden to me. I mean personally I like to go to the LFS and water gives me a great excuse. Besides they'll always load it in for you. Or they will for me, but I'm old

lately i've been doing frequent water changes and making 20-25 gal per week. but more of the problem is getting to the store. sure, going to the store and looking at fish is fun, but the hours on the LFS leave it hard for me to get the consistently. so, it is not good to be dependant on being able to drive to get water, bi weekly or so. i have been working at least 10 - 10+, 6 days a week with my one "day off" i am volunteering during LFS time. so, yeah, buying LFS water, much less water that is 45 min away (each way) to save $0.10 - $0.20 is a bit on the silly side.

PS: i'm actually more of the put popcorn in the microwave, wander off, and come back 3 hours later with "why am i hungry, i made popcorn".

Youre gonna need an autoshutoff valve...

No kidding. Right now I just have a lot of towels and a kitchen timer.

[Dustin Pedretti]

Yes.

+1

[Timfish]

Rodi upstairs and downstairs.... way easier than carrying water :-P

But you get much better exercize carrying the buckets up and down your stairs, and this will save you the gas driving to the gym!

[(Bio)³]

Rodi upstairs and downstairs.... way easier than carrying water :-P

 

But you get much better exercize carrying the buckets up and down your stairs, and this will save you the gas driving to the gym!

You don't get to look like this and excersize :-P

[Timfish]

. . . The whole filter/don't filter/rodi thing....it's really just up to what works for you (general you, not "you"). . .

+1.

I've heard some private water utilities charge an arm and a leg for water and this certainly could be an incentive for setting up a filtering system that doesn't produce any "waste" water. I would point out since "waste" from a RO or RO/DI system has gone through a sediment and carbon filter it's cleaner than the supply into the filter and is good for at least flicking on the cats 'cause they're trying to trip you up while you're carrying full buckets. (My RO waste runs to one of my peach trees). If a house already has a water softner DI cartridges are going to last a lot longer as it's the calcium and magnesium carbonates in our tap water that really chews up DI cartidges. And it probably would be significantly cheaper to set up a cheap 10" filter housing and use carbon filters from a home supply place and get DI resin cartridges in bulk online.

I would also add many of the things we are removing from our tap water here in Austin are beneficial to our reefs. Besides the pictures and videos Subsea and I have posted of our systems maintained with tap water is DoMa's beautiful reef system in post #17 in this thread: http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/17762-tap-water/?hl=%2Btap+%2Bwater#entry127584

(By the way when this picture was taken DoMa was using 5000K fluorescent bulbs for his reef with blue Christmas leds for supplemental lighting.)

[Planeden]

Rodi upstairs and downstairs.... way easier than carrying water :-P

But you get much better exercize carrying the buckets up and down your stairs, and this will save you the gas driving to the gym!

You don't get to look like this and excersize :-P

the sacrfices some men make for beauty. i just don't know how you do it.

[Planeden]

. . . The whole filter/don't filter/rodi thing....it's really just up to what works for you (general you, not "you"). . .

+1.

I've heard some private water utilities charge an arm and a leg for water and this certainly could be an incentive for setting up a filtering system that doesn't produce any "waste" water. I would point out since "waste" from a RO or RO/DI system has gone through a sediment and carbon filter it's cleaner than the supply into the filter and is good for at least flicking on the cats 'cause they're trying to trip you up while you're carrying full buckets. (My RO waste runs to one of my peach trees). If a house already has a water softner DI cartridges are going to last a lot longer as it's the calcium and magnesium carbonates in our tap water that really chews up DI cartidges. And it probably would be significantly cheaper to set up a cheap 10" filter housing and use carbon filters from a home supply place and get DI resin cartridges in bulk online.

I would also add many of the things we are removing from our tap water here in Austin are beneficial to our reefs. Besides the pictures and videos Subsea and I have posted of our systems maintained with tap water is DoMa's beautiful reef system in post #17 in this thread: http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/17762-tap-water/?hl=%2Btap+%2Bwater#entry127584

(By the way when this picture was taken DoMa was using 5000K fluorescent bulbs for his reef with blue Christmas leds for supplemental lighting.)

i thought i had to use RODI water since I don't have a skimmer to pull out the heavy metals .

i agree that tap/rodi is user choice and that systems can be run on tap water. mine may be someday, too. it'll probably happen slowly with "i really need to top off, but i don't want to filter the water....just once wont hurt....". it's a conceit for our newbie tanks. the commitee and i decided that we could go against the board concencious on a few things without getting kicked out and still be able to get free tech support. so we picked other things and use fancy water.

but when i first read the bit about "pull everything out, then put most of it back in" i laughed. until i realized that the salt mixes had everything we need to "put back in". but that is main reason i wouldn't use it on a freshwater system. no autofill on the trace elements stuff you need.

i just thought some people with smaller systems may be interested in an alternative to driving to pick up water or installing a large system. using victoly's 3:1 ratio, and a typical cost of $200 for an RODI system compared to $40 for mine, it seems like it'll be at least a year before i will start losing money.

[Planeden]

i'm a little surpised that waste water is cleaner than the source tap water. i thought that osmosis worked with low concentrations flowing through a membrane to higher concentrations. so you would have something like straight tap water sucking the stuff out of the filtered water and thereby by 50-25% more "dirty". seems silly that a system would filter waste water and fill up your media faster. of course, this is getting way into my "not a waterologist" caveat.

of course, even if that was the case, our waste water is still probably cleaner than Waco tap water.

[Timfish]

. . . waste water is cleaner than the source tap water. . .

Yeah, I used RO for years before I made that connection. Assuming a RO/DI is useing a TFC membrane (CFC is before the carbon instead of after, less common configuration) supply water goes through the sediment filter which pulls stuff out then goes through the carbon filter which pulls more stuff out so when it goes to the RO membrane a lot of stuff has been removed, chlorine being one example (but note ammonia is not removed even by the RO membrane and DI resin).

[Timfish]

. . . i just thought some people with smaller systems may be interested in an alternative to driving to pick up water or installing a large system. using victoly's 3:1 ratio, and a typical cost of $200 for an RODI system compared to $40 for mine, it seems like it'll be at least a year before i will start losing money. . .

I hesitate to say how long it's been since I looked at the cost/benefit equation but it was an easy choice for me to go with RO. After reading this thread I am really curious though how well a DIY carbon and DI filter made with home supply parts would do with a house that has a water softner installed, it's something I never looked at. Considering the ease of getting DI and carbon cartridges online in bulk it could have a pretty favorable long term maintenance cost if the DI cartirdges last a lot longer when used in conjuction with a standard whole house water softner.