Tap Water

[Timfish]

I was wondering who else uses tap water for their reef tanks? Here's a link to 240 gal that's been getting 20 gal bimonthly water changes for over three years.

[Wildman926]

No way would I do it now. I did when keeping a reef tank when I lived in Cedar Park in the early 90's. No problems, all looked great. Moved to Houston, and what a disaster. The water treatment plants are required to put so muh in the water today. You can go online and see a water report, or request one.

[Duncan7]

I do, but only because the RO unit that was working when I purchased the tank is no longer so. I am trying to get the school to reattach it, but won't know what will happen until this fall. In the meantime, I do the best I can. Also, the tank has only been running since December 2010, so time may be my enemy as the year progresses. I am just waiting to see what happens.

Duncan7

[Teresa]

I've always used tap water. I have no idea if my tanks would do better with RO since I've never tried it.

[Duncan7]

That's good to hear, Teresa. I had always understood that tap water was a no-no, but have not had a lot of choices with the school tank. Maybe it isn't as big a deal as I thought. I'll keep on testing the water regularly, though.

Duncan7

[Wildman926]

Whena 75gpd 6 stage ro/di units cost around $150, it is a wise idea to invest in one. If you want, you can add a TDS meter for less than $20 to make sure your output is pure water.

[JamesL]

It all just depends on the quality of the "tap" water you have in your area.

[Timfish]

This tank is in Allendale Heights so it's Austin Utilities H2O. It's been running long enough without problems I'm thinking of trying out another tank.

[Wildman926]

HERE is the link to the Austin Water report. Why would you want your tank to have all of those contaminants?

[bige]

Thanks wildman for posting that link. Can I just point out that 1 SAMPLE OUT OF 3381 SAMPLES TESTED POSITIVE FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL FECAL MATTER! Forget the fish, I'm going to start drinking my ro water. O and the nitrates from fertilizer runoff. Scary stuff. Not to mention all the other "stuff" listed.

[pbnj]

Can I just point out that 1 SAMPLE OUT OF 3381 SAMPLES TESTED POSITIVE FOR HUMAN OR ANIMAL FECAL MATTER! Forget the fish, I'm going to start drinking my ro water.

OK, how about this statistic.....a recent study showed that over 75% of supermarket shopping cart handles sampled were contaminated with fecal matter. I started using those cleaning wipes that H-E-B offers after I heard that one.

[bige]

That's so gross. I guess I will be wiping the handle now too. I get grossed out when I touch my mouth already when I touch that handle.

Sorry, got off subject.

The nitrates alone seem problematic.

[Timfish]

Thanks wildman for posting that link. . . .

Yes, thank you for the link Wildman. I haven't checked everything listed but a cursory look lists stuff I would think of as beneficial for corals zooanthellae. The above discussion about fecal matter is a prime example (and I will definitely be using wipes from now on! Thanks PBNJ!). While the report makes me glad I drink RO I'm sure water from any aquarium would test much higher for fecal matter. Besides grabing fecal matter from the water corals also pull ammonia and nitrates from the water to feed their zooanthellae. The TOC, Total Organic Carbon, is another important element in reef ecosystems.

[bige]

How long have you been using tap water? I'm all for it if it works.

[Timfish]

How long have you been using tap water? I'm all for it if it works.

This system has been getting twice monthly 20 gal water changes for over 3 years. It also usually has 15-20 gal evaporation every two weeks when the tank is topped off before doing the water change. Since it's a Lee Chin Eng system (Sprung & Delbeck discuss this methodology in all three volumes of "The Reef Aquarium") there's no filtration but it has a 40 watt UV supplied by a Aquaclear 70. Besides the air bubbles additional circulation is provided by two Hydor Korralia 2 and a 2nd Aquaclear 70. Monthly I spend 10 -15 minutes pulling Xenia.

When I first started using RO 14 years ago I noticed an improvement in about 2/3rds of my tanks over a 4 - 8 month period. That this tank has done so well with very little maintenance (and about $300 in corals) has made me think about the differences between then and now. Two things that come to mind is one: Phosphates, I can remember testing Round Rock tap at several ppm, my tap (Austin) just now tested at 80 parts per Billion so this has been a big improvement.

Second: Fourteen years ago the selection of cultured polyps and corals was pretty limited and virtually all the animals available in the LFS were wild collected so there was a much larger percentage of dieoff in the animals added to aquariums which I feel is a serious cause of problems in a reef tank (heat I'd say is the main one I run into). Having been able to monitor multiple systems for as long as 15 years which are not having animals added for long periods I know from experience the death of just one animal can have (not always) a noticeble effect on the algae, which may take several months to work through, without any noticeble change in tests. When this happens repeatedly without giving the ecosystem time to recover you get a cascading and culminative effect that can be very difficult to remediate. As long as pH, Alk and calcium are stable and there are no deaths I have no problem adding animals but time needs to be given between additions to make sure the new additions are doing OK.

For the record, three years is not long enough to determine if tap water is better or worse than RO or RO/DI. After 10 years I might have a more diffinitive opinion. I can only say I can setup a pretty tank and grow corals with all three sources.

[subsea]

I have used well water for the last thirty years of my reef keeping. When I moved to Hays County three years ago, I begain using water out of the Edwards aquifier. I could not believe how high the aquifier water was in dissolved solids, especially sulfates, which are so high, I could smell it in my landry cloths. My corals and plants outside in my yard love this high content mineral water. I never did agree with removing calcium, magnesium, phosphate and sulfate to have to add alkalinity buffers after taking them out. Just my opinion after more than 30 years of reefing.

Patrick

[DoMa]

I've used tap water for years also. This thread is useless without pics as most people clicking this link will be looking for tanks that actually use tap water. BTW, regarding things in faucet water, what do you use when you brush your teeth? RO water?

[Wildman926]

I've used tap water for years also. This thread is useless without pics as most people clicking this link will be looking for tanks that actually use tap water. BTW, regarding things in faucet water, what do you use when you brush your teeth? RO water?

This thread is NOT useless, as you don't want to give someone the wrong impression that their tap water is ok to use, and then their tanks ending up crashing due to the tap water. As stated before, it depends on the quality of your tap water whether you are able to get by with tap water only.

"what do you use when you brush your teeth? RO water?" We put many things in our body that we would never allow our tank to have in them. Why don''t you try pouring a bottle of scope in your tank, if you want to take that analogy.

[Eric Alvarado]

"what do you use when you brush your teeth? RO water?" We put many things in our body that we would never allow our tank to have in them. Why don''t you try pouring a bottle of scope in your tank, if you want to take that analogy.

I'm coming over to your house if that scope I just added the tank doesn't make my fishes breath minty fresh....

[DoMa]

I've used tap water for years also. This thread is useless without pics as most people clicking this link will be looking for tanks that actually use tap water. BTW, regarding things in faucet water, what do you use when you brush your teeth? RO water?

This thread is NOT useless, as you don't want to give someone the wrong impression that their tap water is ok to use, and then their tanks ending up crashing due to the tap water. As stated before, it depends on the quality of your tap water whether you are able to get by with tap water only.

"what do you use when you brush your teeth? RO water?" We put many things in our body that we would never allow our tank to have in them. Why don''t you try pouring a bottle of scope in your tank, if you want to take that analogy.

Yes, this thread is useless because there is no proof why RO is better then Tap. Animals still survive in the water and corals grow fine. Useless useless useless thread.....

[subsea]

DoMa,

Why are you so persistant with the useless thread BS. I find a disusson of content and theory especially valuable. As a BS in Marine Enginerring from one of eleven State Maritime Institutes in the USA. I have an opinion with some pedigree. I have maintained reef tanks for more than thirty years which gives me more insight than a blog about reef keeping.

The intitial comment which you made about pictures being the proof of a good thread, I find the comment to be some what Calvanistic. Why is your proof of authority more valid than my source of information.

Patrick

[JamesL]

Just a friendly reminder to keep the talk here friendly and civil (else heads will roll! ).

I am unsure how much of the comments are joking, but I don't want things to get out of hand.

[Timfish]

Looking closer at the City of Austin water report ( http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/whatsinthewater.htm ) and looking up "Saltwater" on Wikipedia a several contaminants listed are found in saltwater naturally. It may be stuff we don't want to consume but corals are exposed to it all the time. The simple solution for copper and lead is to run your tap a short period before using it. The report left out phosphate and iron which is what I would think people would find issue with. Since iron is so important for chlorophill it doesn't bother me especially after seeing how much is in the mud products for refugiums. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread phosphate levels are much better now than they used to be. To give an idea of how much phosphate is added in tap water and in food I did a small experiment. I took two 1 gal containers and filled each one with 1 gal tap water. In one container I put .5 g pellet food (about 1/8 teaspoon) in the 2nd container I put .5 g frozen krill (slightly less than 2 individual krill) I let both containers set for about 20 hrs. The results were:

Tap Water .08 P / .25 PO4 mg/l

Pellets .75 mg/l PO4 (.25 from tap, .5 from pellets)

Krill 1 mg/l PO4 (.25 from tap, .75 from krill)

My Elos test kit only went to .48 PO4 so I used Mercks to test the higher levels in the pellet and krill samples.

An interesting follow up to this would be to determine the total amount of phosphate added to a tank during a water change and the total amount of phosphate added for the time period between water changes.

As I see it many of the contaminants in tap are things that are bad or distasteful to us not necessarily corals and clearly reef systems can be maintained for years with tap water with little remediation.

(and thanks Bay [ Doma ] for almost getting my thread locked )

[subsea]

I always consider phosphate in the theam of things. Calurpae is the highest uptakeof phosphate to nitrate ratio at 20 of all the macro algaes. I use Caulerpa Parvispora which is not invasifve but is an enjoy to the herbivores as well as myself. I have air dried this particular seaweed and find it particularly enjoyable.

Patrick

[DoMa]

Looking closer at the City of Austin water report ( http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/whatsinthewater.htm ) and looking up "Saltwater" on Wikipedia a several contaminants listed are found in saltwater naturally. It may be stuff we don't want to consume but corals are exposed to it all the time. The simple solution for copper and lead is to run your tap a short period before using it. The report left out phosphate and iron which is what I would think people would find issue with. Since iron is so important for chlorophill it doesn't bother me especially after seeing how much is in the mud products for refugiums. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread phosphate levels are much better now than they used to be. To give an idea of how much phosphate is added in tap water and in food I did a small experiment. I took two 1 gal containers and filled each one with 1 gal tap water. In one container I put .5 g pellet food (about 1/8 teaspoon) in the 2nd container I put .5 g frozen krill (slightly less than 2 individual krill) I let both containers set for about 20 hrs. The results were:

Tap Water .08 P / .25 PO4 mg/l

Pellets .75 mg/l PO4 (.25 from tap, .5 from pellets)

Krill 1 mg/l PO4 (.25 from tap, .75 from krill)

My Elos test kit only went to .48 PO4 so I used Mercks to test the higher levels in the pellet and krill samples.

An interesting follow up to this would be to determine the total amount of phosphate added to a tank during a water change and the total amount of phosphate added for the time period between water changes.

As I see it many of the contaminants in tap are things that are bad or distasteful to us not necessarily corals and clearly reef systems can be maintained for years with tap water with little remediation.

(and thanks Bay [ Doma ] for almost getting my thread locked )

Tim, you know giving you a hard time is one of the perks of being your friend. By the way, you probably need to get better test kits. I did those tests 10 years ago with food and phosphates and things havnen't changed much from your current results. That's why I'm using Tap water with Chaeto to export excess nutrients.