KALK increasing algae blooms?

[esacjack]

I recently started dosing kalk to keep things a little easier on us. However, out of the 4 tanks I've started using kalk in, 3 of them are no exhibiting explosive algal growth. The biocube now is suffering from a cyano outbreak live I've never seen before, even with trates (3 tests) at 0-5ppm. My office cube is now suffering from cyano, and one of my frag tanks as well. The office cube is fed once a week, the frag tanks are never fed. The biocube is the only one that receives regular feedings, i.e. twice a week. Up till I started dosing kalk, I had zero problems with algae. I know there are many that say Kalk has no affect on algae, but given that this is still an evolving science, I say nay. Kalk must be the cause. It's the -only- variable in our otherwise static setup. zero livestock changes, fresh filters, carbon, gfo, and none of the tanks even run the same filtration routine. Zero die-off in any of the tanks, no ammonia, no phosphates (3 tests), nothing to point a finger at except kalk. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

[victoly]

Nerp. Stop dosing kalk and see if it goes away

[George Monnat Jr]

Yes, when I was using vinegar to pack more lime into the water. Are you using vinegar to saturate your KW? If yes, then you are carbon dosing at a high rate meaning explosive cyanobacteria and other bacteria. I had problems with GHA, too, but I don't know how algae uses carbon or the algae growth is a result of more CO2 from the increased bacteria or something else.

[esacjack]

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY

"STOP DOSING KALK"

[esacjack]

Yes, when I was using vinegar to pack more lime into the water. Are you using vinegar to saturate your KW? If yes, then you are carbon dosing at a high rate meaning explosive cyanobacteria and other bacteria. I had problems with GHA, too, but I don't know how algae uses carbon or the algae growth is a result of more CO2 from the increased bacteria or something else.

No carbon dosing of any kind on this end. :/ Maybe KALK OD?

[Wade]

I've been dosing kalk in my ATO for several months now (only 2 - 3 teaspoons per 6 - 7 gallons of water) and during that period have also experienced a cyano outbreak that I'm still dealing with. I didn't attribute the outbreak to the kalk though. I figured it was maybe old tank syndrome since my substrate is about 10 years old. I'm in the process now of slowly removing and replacing my substrate a little at a time. My parameters have been steady since dosing the kalk so I hate to stop doing it. I don't think the kalk itself is to blame. Even in the aquaria world it takes two to tango so I'm thinking it's an underlying thing like the old substrate saturated with who knows what that's now keying off of the kalk dosing and causing the cyano outbreak. Just doesn't make sense that the kalk by itself would cause cyano since it's a bacteria that feeds on something else other than calcium. It's also possible that I have secretly stolen the mind of a laboratory monkey and replaced it with my own, without a license to do so.

[chippwalters]

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY

"STOP DOSING KALK"

FWIW, my only breakout of cyano came after dosing kalk for awhile. I have since simply stopped dosing kalk.

[Wade]

Do you dose 2-part now?

[chippwalters]

Nope, I use an additive, Tropic Marin Bio-calcium (has alkalinity too). I manually add a scoop a day to my sump and it seems to be working fine. Bought it at Fishy Business. FWIW, I'm exclusively LPS and softies at this time. I'm told this stuff works great on SPS, but I have no experience.

[esacjack]

just out of curiosity, those who have had a problem with cyano and are dosing kalk, were you using Mrs.Wages Pickling lime?

[George Monnat Jr]

just out of curiosity, those who have had a problem with cyano and are dosing kalk, were you using Mrs.Wages Pickling lime?

I used Mrs.Wages Pickling Lime, but I only had cyano problems when I added vinegar. When I cut way back or stopped adding vinegar, which is carbon dosing, my cyano problem went away. For about a year before other issues made it come back. I went 4-8 months adding Mrs.Wages Pickling Lime in my ATO without problems with cyano or algae.

[esacjack]

Hmm I'm wondering if its as simple as a contaminated package of kalk? Today Im switching one of my tanks back to using aquavitro eight.four, and the other tank i'll continue using kalk. I'm also wondering if it could be as simple as alk not being consumed quick enough by your inhabitants, or a reaction to something in salt mixes? Im stumped really, but I'm going to attempt to back off the KALK on one tank, and leave it be on another as a control. I also run chemipure elite, and phosguard.. maybe a reaction to something in either one?

[Wade]

Currently, the only thing I'm adding to my tank is kalk. No other additives at all. I have a 2-part system in place, but kalk was just easier since I don't have much stock so the load is small. I could probably get by without the kalk at all since I'm doing 5% weekly water changes. I think I'll try that and see if I can do away with the pink fur. By the way, will the cyano kill any coral it gets on?

[Bpb]

It'll shade them from the light so can kill indirectly but it won't attack them chemically like dinoflagellates do.

I've been using mrs wages for kalk since January. Started off at 1 teaspoon per gallon and am just now this week up to full saturation, though I suspect it's the halimeda eating up all the calcium and alk, not the acros. But I could be wrong. I've not had a trace of cyano the whole time. At some point soon ill likely have to start boosting it with vinegar so I can dissolve more, so ill be interested to see if I get any cyano.

Most accounts I've read of carbon dosing have reported that vodka dosing really encourages cyano and that vinegar is a good alternative that won't cause that problem.

Are those of you who are using vinegar also running GFO? I run a GFO reactor so I wonder if that would inhibit any cyano bloom caused by the vinegar

[Wade]

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY

"STOP DOSING KALK"

FWIW, my only breakout of cyano came after dosing kalk for awhile. I have since simply stopped dosing kalk.

Did the cyano go away after you stopped using the kalk? How long did it take?

[chippwalters]

I pretty much got fed up once the cyano 'event' commenced and after literally fighting and fighting all kinds of algae, from green hair to dinoflagellates to you name it. Frankly, I didn't 'connect the dots' to Kalkwasser. Instead I researched sump design and ended up at Fishy Business because Shane has, IMO, the cleanest, most algae-free tanks in town.

I brought him my sump design and he told me it sucked (yep, that's Shane!). I decided he was wrong, but then asked him why my tank had such problems, and he told me a lot of stuff about how I was using the wrong substrate, the wrong live rock, the wrong sump and the wrong lighting.

So, knowing I was correct and he was a dinosaur, I went home.

Got to thinking more about it and finally said to myself, "what the heck-- why don't you just try it his way?"

So, I went back to his store, and decided I'd do everything but change my lighting-- I still believed LEDs could get the job done. I bought his sump, his LR, his crushed coral substrate and decided to start all over. I ended up scrapping my existing tank and using only his methods. They are super simple, utilize a cryptic sump which stays clean and salt free, no skimmer as my tank is small and then waited to see what would happen.

Things were great from the start, but after awhile some algae started showing up (not cyano) so I added a UV sterilizer and my Purigen Gatorade reactor, and haven't had a wisp of a problem since. I live in the country and I don't have access to RO-DI as we're on well water which would kill most of those filters-- so I use filtered rainwater. I think the UV sterilizer *really helped* with the rainwater freshwater top-off. Now, I literally never have to clean my glass, and the corals are doing just fine. I feed them, the fish and coral banded shrimp 2 to 3 times a day.

I'm moving up to a larger tank, and am going to try using some Dry Rock (the horror) keeping my fingers crossed it won't create too much mess. But my sump is getting more mature and the LR rubble in it seems to be doing the job just great. And, now I dose Tropic Marin Bio-calcium which has alkalinity buffers too. My goal is probably different from many. I'm just wanting to create a beautiful reef aquarium which has the absolute minimum maintenance possible as I just don't have time to spend hours per week on it.

[Wade]

"My goal is probably different from many. I'm just wanting to create a beautiful reef aquarium which has the absolute minimum maintenance possible as I just don't have time to spend hours per week on it."

This is me to a "T". I'm going to rinse out my ATO container today and stop dosing the kalk. I've also got another 20% water change and substrate vacuum planned to continue replacing my old substrate with new CC. Hopefully the cyano will go away soon.

[Bpb]

Lol nobody answered the gfo question, but ill pose another.

For those of you who are stopping dosing kalk, have you implemented alternative plans to maintain calcium and alkalinity? Automated 2-part? Calcium reactor? If you're gonna stop dosing one, you'll certainly have to move to another.

Missed the tropic Marin dosing comment, but others have stopped using as well but not mentioned their alternative methods

Edited August 24, 2013 by Bpb

[esacjack]

I switched to bio calcium as well on one of my tanks. I was running chemipure elite, which has gfo in it. Oddly, the Cyrano is starting in some of my highest flow areas of the tank.

[Bpb]

That's odd. I can't imagine what would cause the cyano. Cyano is typically caused by excessive phosphate right? Just don't see chemically what calcium hydroxide would do to cause a cyano outbreak.

[George Monnat Jr]

Has anyone tested their calcium mediums, like Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime, for phosphates?

[Wade]

I'm using the BRS kalk and my phosphate is always testing at 0.00 in my DT. I suppose I could test my top-off jug to see what the phosphate level is before it hit the tank. Never thought of that.

[chippwalters]

I'm using the BRS kalk and my phosphate is always testing at 0.00 in my DT. I suppose I could test my top-off jug to see what the phosphate level is before it hit the tank. Never thought of that.

What are you using to test your phosphates? Many test kits aren't reliable-- especially at such low levels.

[Wade]

I'm using a Hanna device. They're supposed to be pretty acurate. I've had it or about 6 months or so I guess so I'm guessing it doesn't need to be calibrated yet.

[chippwalters]

I also have a Hanna phosphate checker. Had dinner with Timfish last weekend and he told me they aren't accurate beyond 0.03 +- .02 (or something similar). He recommended a different tester, but I forgot the name. Perhaps he will chime in when he gets a moment.