(Bio)³ Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Poor horse. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Poor horse. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 eh, he's dead. he doesn't know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 To be honest I'm not totally sure. Initially i thought since there was very little live rock in the tank, that removal of the original bag caused an ammonia spike. But within 24 hours of adding carbon, the cloudiness went away. The corals still look a little less than happy. I never registered a mini-cycle in my testing (salifert and red sea). At this point I suppose it could be a number of things. 1. I triggered some kind of precipitate due to a fast alk swing with high mag and high ca by using eight.four (overdose) 2. I triggered a mini cycle, and the 'haze' was a bacteria bloom 3. I've discovered albino phyto or nano unicorns. So I guess its back to the drawing board on dosing. Im leery going back to using eight.four. But what other options are out there? Especially for a tank this small? Any recommended reading? So it was the chemipure ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 To be honest I'm not totally sure. Initially i thought since there was very little live rock in the tank, that removal of the original bag caused an ammonia spike. But within 24 hours of adding carbon, the cloudiness went away. The corals still look a little less than happy. I never registered a mini-cycle in my testing (salifert and red sea). At this point I suppose it could be a number of things. 1. I triggered some kind of precipitate due to a fast alk swing with high mag and high ca by using eight.four (overdose) 2. I triggered a mini cycle, and the 'haze' was a bacteria bloom 3. I've discovered albino phyto or nano unicorns. So I guess its back to the drawing board on dosing. Im leery going back to using eight.four. But what other options are out there? Especially for a tank this small? Any recommended reading? So it was the chemipure ? Dibs on a unicorn for my 750! Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Ckyuv has a quad doser for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 How much alk/ca/mg were you going through weekly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 i'll need to refer to my 'reef journal' to see the trends. I try and record every test result, even if they're consecutive. I had the number in my head earlier, but it escapes me currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'm using Salifert's All in One thru my ATO. Dosing 25ml in 5 gal RODI that lasts 6 days. Keeps my Ca ~ 425 and Alk falls a little short, but I base the dose off the Ca needs and hand suppliment a little Reef Builder as needed a couple of times a week by hand. Since the Salifert's is a complete except for Iodide i feel comfortable that corals are getting all the trace and amino acids required. I have had pretty good success w/ this product over the last 18 months w//. a nano and now a 75G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 all params are stable again.. thankfully. I quit the dosing, and intend to pickup 3 of the BRS dosing pumps and MG/CA/ALK eventually. For now, since its a 10g, I'm using water changes to keep things in check. I am encountering a problem with my favorite chalice.. which apparently i cannot replace! It has two mouths, and the tissue has been slowly receding . I'm getting a bit pissy about it, because its my absolute favorite coral in the tank. Currently, the mouths on ALL of my chalices are wide open. Does this mean they're hungry? or is this a sign of a dying chalice? What can i do to help revive my chalice? Dipping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Id think long and hard about using a bubble magus vs 3 independent pumps. You end up losing three spots on your EB8 (which was a deal breaker for me)! WRT to chalices, sometimes they just start to go with no rhyme or reason :/. Low light, low flow and a little bit of nitrate (i.e., slightly above ULNS) is all I can recommend. I'm babysitting another (pretty valuable) chalice, I'd be happy to throw yours in with mine as long as you sign a release form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 I may take you up on that actually. I'd really hate to lose this chalice. I was lucky to score one from AAF, and have yet to see another one like it. Im thinking about moving it to my garage frag tank. The only hesitation I have there is that the tank regularly sees 83 degrees, but rarely over. Everything I put in that tank seems to do fantastic. But it's pretty heavy flow, with 2x39w ATI T5 HO's 10k/Actinic. It started as my rock tank, and became a zoanthid grow-out tank, because of its ability to make my zoa's look healthy. I honestly believe the Kessil is overkill for my tank size. So when I upgrade to the 40gal breeder frag tank, I'll probably go straight t5's and sell my a150. I just realized how ADD i just went.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 and aww crap you just made me realize why I hadnt gone with the brs pumps in the past... but isnt the bubble magus a rebranded aquamedic? or the same company that mfg's for both companies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 and aww crap you just made me realize why I hadnt gone with the brs pumps in the past... but isnt the bubble magus a rebranded aquamedic? or the same company that mfg's for both companies? not to my knowledge. bubble magus has a great rep, aquamedic not so much. I may take you up on that actually. I'd really hate to lose this chalice. I was lucky to score one from AAF, and have yet to see another one like it. Im thinking about moving it to my garage frag tank. The only hesitation I have there is that the tank regularly sees 83 degrees, but rarely over. Everything I put in that tank seems to do fantastic. But it's pretty heavy flow, with 2x39w ATI T5 HO's 10k/Actinic. It started as my rock tank, and became a zoanthid grow-out tank, because of its ability to make my zoa's look healthy. I honestly believe the Kessil is overkill for my tank size. So when I upgrade to the 40gal breeder frag tank, I'll probably go straight t5's and sell my a150. I just realized how ADD i just went.. just let me know man. the chalice emergency room is open for business. hopefully it wont be a hospice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 So, for science. I performed a small experiment. I took 4 50ml acrylic containers. I filled three with FSW and one with RODI. container 1 will have 1m/l of Seachem eight.four added to 49ml of FSW. (Salt used - Red Sea Max Pro / 1.025 / 81.3 degrees) container 2 will have 1m/l of Seachem eight.four, plus 1ml Mg, to 48ml FSW container 3 will have 1m/l of seachem eight.four added to 49ml RODI container 4 will be a control Note: Redsea max coral pro salt mixes to these values at 1.025 35.0 ppt 8.2 - 8.4 12.3 - 12.7 455 - 475 1360 - 1420 390-410 First off, my objective was only to find out what was causing the strange precipitation in my tank. Even though the parameters 'came back fine', something was still irritating my corals. I was surprised to find out that it was in fact due to the magnesium to calcium balance when adding 8.4. Too high of either, and you end up with a cloudy mess. Which only stabilizes once its hit 400ish. (This was the magic number for my frag tank to clear up as well) This first image is of the containers before adding the seachem 8.4, and the magnesium. I know the container is marked with 2m/l, but it was supposed to be a '1', as 1 was used as the dosage of 8.4 The next image is after adding 1m/l of 8.4 to my current salt mix. The last image is of all four containers after 24 hours of settling. Somehow I omitted to take pictures of the container with magnesium, reacting to the 8.4. In order: Control, 1ml Mg + 1 ml 8.4, 1ml 8.4 / FSW, RODI First Observations: In SW+8.4 : Immediate precipitation in the form of a fine mist, quickly forming a clumpy cloud like mass. Lack of flow evident, as mass immediately forms globules, and falls to container floor. Within 20 minutes, container was fairly transparent across top third, bottom half ranging from semi opaque, to completely white. After 1 hour mass at bottom is strikingly similar to viewing clouds from above. SW+8.4+Mg : Precipitation slower, thinner. More featherlike. Appears to carry more momentum as the clumpy mass fails to form. Fine feather like objects forming on inside of container within 5 minutes. Water still appears to be moving around slowly as the precipitate reacts with the magnesium. A fine mist has begun to form in the container. After 1 hour, calcium particulate visible to the naked eye, and roughly the size of fine sand apparent on bottom of container. The container has taken on a stained/frosted glass like appearance. Precipitate appears to cling to the inside of the container, forming calcium formations. RODI : No visible change Control: No visible change 24 hour observations: The 8.4 solution is still a mass of goo at the bottom of the container. Top 3/4 of water crystal clear. Tested surface water (clearest) for salinity (1.025) and calcium (400). The Mg+8.4 solution has settled out into about a hundred small pieces of sand like substrate on the bottom of the container. The container is stained white, and has strange calcium formations along the inside. Tested surface water (Clearest) for salinity (1.025) and calcium (300), The control container still tests at calcium 475, salinity 1.025. Im not sure exactly what else this data is good for, but to me it proved that my calcium/magnesium levels were already high. And by adding the eight four the immediate reaction was to form into precipitate. Under a low flow condition, this would probably settle out in a few hours, but in a high flow tank, its just a mess. Diluting the solution in saltwater allowing it to settle, then skimming the top (similar to kalkwasser) seemed to be the only resolution. And for that kind of hassle, you may as well just use kalk! One thing 8.4 claims to do, is to raise your pk to 8 as well (as well as ph/alk) Im wondering if a ton of filter floss would have cleared up the precipitate? hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I saw the instructions on the seachem page and it says not to dose with mg or ca. Are you normally dosing mg., or are you just worried you have that much in the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 I dont dose anything aside from the seachem. My mag and ca are generally high because of my salt mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well, that is as helpful as I can be. I just went to see how much you were overdosing and saw that disclaimer at the bottom. Overdosing the test, I should've said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The goo is weird to me. Any time I've ever seen a precipitation, it's like someone threw in a handful of very fine chalk dust. I wonder if, in the 8.4, they have some kind of additive that aids in preserving the solution. We'll probably never know without chemical analysis, but jeez, everyone steer clear of it in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The goo is weird to me. Any time I've ever seen a precipitation, it's someone threw in a handful of very fine chalk dust. I wonder if, in the 8.4, they have some kind of additive that aids in preserving the solution. We'll probably never know without chemical analysis, but jeez, everyone steer clear of it in the future. i agree the goo is weird, which sent me to the instructions. but, he used more than 300X the dosage (supposed to be 5mil/80L). at that point, who knows what could have happened. seems sort of like saying don't use a sautee pan because the lava melted right through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 spoken like a man who has never had a lava cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Im wondering if its their method for slow release of the solution, to 'safely raise your ph to 8.4'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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