esacjack Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 So last week I noticed my KH and pH were a bit low, so I added 7ml of 8.4 solution to my ATO. Over the last few days, I've noticed my water is getting milky/cloudy. My dkh/kh was sitting right at around 8.0, and then suddenly, it was 9.3 this morning, and the water is extremely murky. Am I seeing calcium precipitate due to the jump in alkalinity/kh? Nothing else has changed in the tank, no new inhabitants of any kind. Sadly, the SPS I picked up from Mitch is STN'ing now, and one of my favorite stags is STN'ing as well. I've shut down the tainted ATO, and replaced with standard RODI. Next on my list of things to do when I get home is to test phosphates and ammonia. But in the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears(eyes). Oh, I should add, I recently replaced my carbon bag with a bag of chemipure elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yeah, your SPS isn't going to be super happy about an alk swing of 1.3. Sounds like it's directly related to that. To answer you question about murkiness, sounds also like that is a direct result of the CaPO4. Nothing you can really do now, any sudden remedy is just going to exacerbate the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 So just ride it out? Should I move my SpS over to my secondary tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I would probably start doing a daily 10% water change until you get back in your alkalinity comfort zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 crap.. i guess my message via tapatalk was eaten by net zombies.. update: I've performed 2 10% water changes so far. Water is still pretty cloudy, and I'm seeing some of my zoas react to the water quality change, i.e. closing up. Im certain mitchs mystery acro is a goner, my other stag seems to be holding on, but is not extending polyps at this point. eight.four is supposed to be near impossible to overdose. I'm amazed that just adding the recommended 7ml to my ATO reservoir was enough to cause such a calamity. Im really trying to keep dosing simple for now, until I'm ready to build out my frag tank. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Im certain mitchs mystery acro is a goner when things get stable again, lmk and I'll hook you up with another frag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks Mitch! Things are looking a little better this afternoon, but not by much. Going to give the tank a day off of water changes to try and minimize stress (too late? ha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 youre doing all you can man. I've done this before, and things bounce back more than you would expect. stay the course and dont do anything nutty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 ok so I"m 80% certain the addition of the aquavitro 8.4 has caused this cloudy water. What I'm unsure of, is how to make it stop. I have stopped all dosing, and have been performing water changes. I've removed my carbon filter in an attempt to get the turn over rate up. Took some water samples to Aquadome and Hunter and the brunette, (I can never remember her name), ran the full battery of tests on them. Current results : mag 1240 Ca 300 Nh3 - .1 No2 - 0 No3 - 0 Po4 - 0 Kh - 9.8 Sal 1.026 ( this seems to slightly conflict with my hydrometer and my fracto) Ph 8.0 ( as you can see my ph dropped back down to 8 after all of the water changes and dosage halting) Lost... no idea whats going on. Although the little spike in ammonia could be the sps dying off one by one (son of a beechnut) So in the sake of science. I did the unthinkable. Last night I dosed a spare 20gallon I was cycling to use for temporary housing. Guess what? This afternoon, the water began to turn cloudy. The only similarity between the two tanks, is they both run chemi pure elite. But currently, the 10 gallon isnt running any mech filter. Just skimming. So that leaves the aquavitro 8.4. My Kh reading was also a bit different than hunters, it was .50/7.7/2.73 (ml/dkh/mgl) My low resolution reading was : dkh 8.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 i think her name is melissa. sadly, that's all i have to offer for your predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Id get some new Ca supplement as well as Mg supplement and hand dose until I had the Ca @ 425 - 450 and the Mg at 1350 - 1400. I would also bind up that ammonia w/ Prime. And then wait, till it all settles down. I would stop w/ the water changes and maybe run some carbon instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Really stop the water changes? If he is using good salt and water water changes should bring him back to spec might add carbon in addition though Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 I started an airstone last night and performed another 10% this morning. Will venture out for some pure activate carbon. Unless chemipure cuts the mustard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Go pure gac Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 once you go gac...you never go back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Really stop the water changes? If he is using good salt and water water changes should bring him back to spec might add carbon in addition though Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Well performing the water changes could make the problem worst if using a salt high in Alk content like many of the salts are today. And not knowing what salt he is using I would be hesitant to refer him to do something I can not speak to. So if you are using a salt with low Alk readings, which is normally not less than 8.0 dkH then you are really only lowering the dkH by 10% of the difference or only 0.13dkH per 10% water change in this case. This would really just be a waste of time IMO. There are actually only a few reasons why water gets murky and Ca precept is one of them. Assuming this is the reason I would suggest to only raise the Ca and Mg to support a more stable water param, but actually it is the pH which is of more concern here. When the pH levels get very high for an extended time calcium carbonate will precipitate out of solution, and cause the water to become murky. If the pH remains over 8.6 you should lower it using either vinager or other proven methods. But if it comes down below 8.6 on its own then it is better to just wait it out until the calcium carbonate dissolves back into the water and clears after a few days, Only then should one try to restablish the Ca / Alk balance. I only suggested hand dosing to slowly bring up first the Mg usually neutral in these events and then the Ca. But possibly I wouldn't even do that in retrospect. The pH and rapid swings in calcium and alkalinity are the real issue as they will stress the corals. But most likely they would recover after the event. Better to just see the pH is coming down, other than that just wait it out. I currently use Red Sea Pro (black bucket) which is higher in Alk, but I beleive the regular Red Sea (blue bucket?) is quite a bit lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 once you go gac...you never go back Just out of curiosity, have you removed the chemipure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Oh yes and just another thought to consider. From recently setting up the 75G I am finding i can dramatically affect the amount of evaporation from the tank. Now consider my tank is an open top and i do keep my house frequently above 75F. But by increasing GPH in the tank and / or moving powerheads around to create more surface tension to increase the cooling effect, I have managed to go from 1/2 G evap per day to almost 1 G per day. Now in an ATO / Kalk set up I would be increasing the Kalk by nearly X2. So these set ups depend on consistancy in the evap rate to keep the tank inparameters in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 once you go gac...you never go back Just out of curiosity, have you removed the chemipure? Chemipure is out, pure GAC back in. Tank cleared up overnight, but corals still look rather angry. I'm sure it'll take a few weeks for them to relax. In the meantime, I'm going to revert to water changes, instead of dosing. I guess this is why people buy the 3 part dosing pumps? I guess I'll have to pencil a dosing pump in with the rest of the parts needed for my frag tank upgrade This all really started because I had a few acros that werent coloring up at all. My ph was 8.0 and my alk was constantly on the low side of average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 So it was the chemipure ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 So it was the chemipure ? Chemi-Pure is a carbon medium that absorbs waste nutrients that bacterium feed on. So it helps clear murkiness when there are excess bacteria in the water as in “bacteria blooms”, pretty much like the GAC does. What Chemi-Pure has that GAC does not have is IO resins to help remove ammonia and nitrate which is why some claim it has better stabilizing benefits on water chemistry. So IMO I find it difficult to believe replacing ChemiPure w/ GAC is what made the difference in clearing the water, being it simply amounts to removing IO resins from the filtration; and further because neither would have any benefits from clearing PCC from the water. More likely it was the stopping of the dosing and simply time that cleared the water from the CaCO3 in the form of a PCC that clouded the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I don't know the exact chemical compounds in the chemipure, however the timing seems suspect. Apparently, this is not the first time this has happened. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?137176-Chemi-Pure-caused-Cloudy-water-Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Sure I guess anything is possible, however I would expect the timing to be more coincidental than suspect. Of course we will never know as several different changes were going on at one time including the removal of the CP as well as stopping the dosing. I place little value in these WWW citings as one never really knows enough detail about the tank or the person. Sometimes I look at the statistics of the person making the claim and lack of information and find it difficult to consider them credible. The site noted has Aaron a junior member w/ 12 posts claiming Chemi-Pure clouded the tank ??? Then a rebuttal to his claim from Nolapete a member w/ over 5000 posts, 12 blogs and a 4000+ gal tank build and claims he has never had Chemi-Pure cloud a tank. All of this info is 6+ years old anyway so who knows. I am sure there are many more claims like this on WWW, but IMHO I would look to the Science at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I just said that it was not uncommon, not that it was peer reviewed science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Yes agreed, these claims are not uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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