Live rock question before starting first build

[Jason & Amber]

Well looking at setting up a 16g found some live rock and some Real Reef Rock. Question is what do y'all prefer?

[Richard L]

22 posts and you're already trying to make trouble? We finally just got the group take down the barricades over the filter socks vs. no filter socks debate.

After battling aptasia, bristle worms and mojanos in my old 40g with live rock, starting my last build with dead rock was a no brainer for me. Real Reef is what I used and it looked fantastic from day one. I'd advise you to be careful of where you are purchasing it from. I've noticed some retailers store it in the same tanks as their live rock which I think defeats the whole purpose of using Real Reef rock. For a recent purchase I asked my LFS if I could get some pieces straight out of the box on delivery day, before they put it in their tank, which they were happy to do.

[Brooks]

I love the Real Reef Rock.. that is what I used, for the most part, in my new 135g tank.

[Kaplanm]

So the manufacturing process mimics the densities of natural corals effectively? Also, can you get it in shelves? I've only ever seen it in chunks.

[Planeden]

So the manufacturing process mimics the densities of natural corals effectively? Also, can you get it in shelves? I've only ever seen it in chunks.

Go to their website. The have rocks, shelves, and branches.

[Timfish]

I'm definitely in the wild or maricultured camp. The beneficial organisms that can be found on wild or live rock cultured in the open ocean cannot be gotten anywhere else. As far as pests over the years I've come across Krackon worms, mantis, aiptasia and rock crabs and BTA's have caused me FAR MORE problems then all of them combined. (The majority of aiptasia and all of the mojanos I've had show up has been from stuff from other tanks.) If you "cure" or qt the rock in a seperate tank as is reccommended by Delbeek and Sprung the risk of pests is perty much eliminated. Besides all the beneficial bacteria, sponges, tunicates and scavanging inverts like small cucumbers and brittle stars I've gotten pretty neat corals and zoas and even clams that successfully reproduced http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/20436-what-the-what-are-the-odds/ I would strongly urge you to avoid "boatrock" which is rock that has been shipped in containers, look for fresh transshipped or one of the maricultured liverock suppliers out of Florida. You might also check Aquaculture Ranch who is one of our sponsers.

[esacjack]

I started with dead rock, and added the critters I wanted in my rock. Tube worms, bristle worms, pods, tunicates, sponges. etc. You can find many of the common filter feeders and rock inhabitants for sale as 'seed medium'. I.e. Steve Tyree sells sponge rocks for seeding cryptic zones, etc.. Even though I started with dead rock, I still managed to find a few hitch hikers that survived the dry-out phase of the rock. (Gorilla crabs, elbow crabs) I also still have to deal with pests introduced to my tank via frags. Even though I dip religiously, and have a pretty strict QT process (not a 30 day process mind you) I still ended up with some flatworms in one tank. Nothing a little FWE couldn't fix. T he big problem with dry rock curing is phosphate removal, which is much easier than it sounds. Some over-complicate the process of rock curing, and then turn around and introduce a pest via a rushed frag purchase... However, my pico was run entirely on RealReef Rock, and I never had a single pest in the tank. Buying things like RealReef and Dry Rock are only beneficial to keeping a pest free environment, if you follow a good QT and dipping regimen. The density of real reef rock is pretty thick and heavy. It's somewhat porous, but nothing like Tukani/Pukani dry rock. To me it always felt more like someone cast some rock shapes with ceramic mix and kitty litter... I also had higher nitrates with real reef, than with pukani/tukani. This may be due to the fact that its nowhere near as porous as the others mentioned.

[Jason & Amber]

Thanks for all the input I think I am going to go with live rock. The real reef rock is too purple for my taste but figured if it is just as good at bio filtration as live rock then I would go for it. I feel that the benefits of live rock exceed the real reef rock. How do you QT your live rock?

[esacjack]

I put mine in a big tub with power head, and keep an eye out for dead organisms. It would help to have a light over it, but it isnt necessary. Scrub any dead material off the rock and rinse with RO water. Toss it in the tub with a power head, and do a 10-20% water change every week for about 2-3 weeks. Test for ammonia,nitrates,phosphates before sending it to the display. Some folks even go as far as adding emerald crabs, snails, peppermint shrimp, and harlequin shrimp to deal with any pests that may be present, during the curing cycle.

[Planeden]

I'm definitely in the wild or maricultured camp. The beneficial organisms that can be found on wild or live rock cultured in the open ocean cannot be gotten anywhere else. As far as pests over the years I've come across Krackon worms, mantis, aiptasia and rock crabs and BTA's have caused me FAR MORE problems then all of them combined. (The majority of aiptasia and all of the mojanos I've had show up has been from stuff from other tanks.) If you "cure" or qt the rock in a seperate tank as is reccommended by Delbeek and Sprung the risk of pests is perty much eliminated. Besides all the beneficial bacteria, sponges, tunicates and scavanging inverts like small cucumbers and brittle stars I've gotten pretty neat corals and zoas and even clams that successfully reproduced http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/20436-what-the-what-are-the-odds/ I would strongly urge you to avoid "boatrock" which is rock that has been shipped in containers, look for fresh transshipped or one of the maricultured liverock suppliers out of Florida. You might also check Aquaculture Ranch who is one of our sponsers.

Funny, the other day I thought you were trying to dissuade me from maricultured or live rock. I must have misunderstood.

[jestep]

I'm at the other end of the spectrum. Used ceramic vidarock rock for my current tank and have no regrets. May take longer to build up bacteria and macro and micro fauna than cured live rock, but no dieoff, no pests, and no or waiting for PO4 to go down as some experience with dry rock. Since it's not calcium based there's the chance that it will not absorb PO4 as argonite and calcareous limestone does, and thus cannot ever leach it back into the tank. An added benefit for me is that there's no chance whatsoever that a reef was impacted by it.

[Timfish]

Funny, the other day I thought you were trying to dissuade me from maricultured or live rock. I must have misunderstood.

I haven't gone back to search the thread in question but if i remember correctly the discussion was about aquacultured rock and bacteria cultures. There is a world of difference between the various aquacultured (grown in tanks or ponds) rock I've seen that might have a few spots of coraline algae or purple dyed rock with bacteria cultures added and maricultured (grown in the open ocean) rock with a wide range of bacteria, sponges, tunicates, macroalgaes and sometimes corals (with the exception of Aquaculture Ranch who's using maricultured rock as seed). With cured maricultured rock or quality wild live rock (not boat rock which has been in containers for who knows how long) I can start adding corals almost immediately.

[kmacc05]

I started with dead rock, and added the critters I wanted in my rock. Tube worms, bristle worms, pods, tunicates, sponges. etc. You can find many of the common filter feeders and rock inhabitants for sale as 'seed medium'. I.e. Steve Tyree sells sponge rocks for seeding cryptic zones, etc.. Even though I started with dead rock, I still managed to find a few hitch hikers that survived the dry-out phase of the rock. (Gorilla crabs, elbow crabs) I also still have to deal with pests introduced to my tank via frags. Even though I dip religiously, and have a pretty strict QT process (not a 30 day process mind you) I still ended up with some flatworms in one tank. Nothing a little FWE couldn't fix. T he big problem with dry rock curing is phosphate removal, which is much easier than it sounds. Some over-complicate the process of rock curing, and then turn around and introduce a pest via a rushed frag purchase... However, my pico was run entirely on RealReef Rock, and I never had a single pest in the tank. Buying things like RealReef and Dry Rock are only beneficial to keeping a pest free environment, if you follow a good QT and dipping regimen. The density of real reef rock is pretty thick and heavy. It's somewhat porous, but nothing like Tukani/Pukani dry rock. To me it always felt more like someone cast some rock shapes with ceramic mix and kitty litter... I also had higher nitrates with real reef, than with pukani/tukani. This may be due to the fact that its nowhere near as porous as the others mentioned.

This! In my last 55g (also my first system) I used the real reef rock. Not to mention it took somewhere in the 5-7 weeks time period to cycle the tank, I also could never get my nitrates down to a comfortable level. With the tank I just set up, I went with real Tukani live rock. It is the same price as the expensive man made stuff (which I think is BS) and from what I have learned, with the actual live rock, the cycle period is cut dramatically. This system only took around 6 days to cycle and my tests have been perfect since! As far as filtration, I am using Rowa Phos and Purigen in the media basket after the skimmer in my 34 gallon all in one.

That's my two cents, but I think a lot of people go the real reef rock route early on not knowing the benefits of actual live rock.

edit: I also would have some sort of nitrites in tests pop up often with the real reef rock.

Edited May 7, 2013 by kmacc05

[Planeden]

Funny, the other day I thought you were trying to dissuade me from maricultured or live rock. I must have misunderstood.

I haven't gone back to search the thread in question but if i remember correctly the discussion was about aquacultured rock and bacteria cultures. There is a world of difference between the various aquacultured (grown in tanks or ponds) rock I've seen that might have a few spots of coraline algae or purple dyed rock with bacteria cultures added and maricultured (grown in the open ocean) rock with a wide range of bacteria, sponges, tunicates, macroalgaes and sometimes corals (with the exception of Aquaculture Ranch who's using maricultured rock as seed). With cured maricultured rock or quality wild live rock (not boat rock which has been in containers for who knows how long) I can start adding corals almost immediately.

no worries. you didn't dissuade me . i am going to use dry rock to start. after it is cured and cycled I'm going to get a piece or two from Aquaculture Ranch to get some good diversity. I figure the spounges and corals that come on that rock probably don't want the nasty water while everything is getting going.

Plug: I saw the Aquaculture Ranch rock/setup last week and the rocks are amazing. Plus, since it is cultured locally, i am supposing there will be no die off when you put it in your tank.

[Timfish]

. . . Plus, since it is cultured locally, i am supposing there will be no die off when you put it in your tank.

There shouldn't be but I would keep an eye on it just in case. Especially if it has some corals on it. Since it's about the only way to get caribean corals I would try to save them if they looked like they were not acclimateing well.

Actually I use about 50% local limestone when I set up a tank with about 50% live rock so it seems to me there's not much difference using any of the various dry rock products. And if you like to look of one of the aquacultured rocks go for it. I personnally just have not been very impressed with cost/benefit of any of the aquacultured rock I've seen over the years. I also want to emphasize the importance of quality, fresh liverock, some stuff literally has been sitting in boxes in a cargo container or a shipping pallet for weeks.

[esacjack]

. . . Plus, since it is cultured locally, i am supposing there will be no die off when you put it in your tank.

There shouldn't be but I would keep an eye on it just in case. Especially if it has some corals on it. Since it's about the only way to get caribean corals I would try to save them if they looked like they were not acclimateing well.

Actually I use about 50% local limestone when I set up a tank with about 50% live rock so it seems to me there's not much difference using any of the various dry rock products. And if you like to look of one of the aquacultured rocks go for it. I personnally just have not been very impressed with cost/benefit of any of the aquacultured rock I've seen over the years. I also want to emphasize the importance of quality, fresh liverock, some stuff literally has been sitting in boxes in a cargo container or a shipping pallet for weeks.

+1

[Sascha D.]

I like Marshall with a few pieces of Tonga Branch mixed in for texture. It's lighter than most LR and looks better.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Sascha D.

[Kaplanm]

I thought all trade of Marshall and Tonga live rock had been ceased. Are there still legal and reputable sources to get it from?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I497 using Tapatalk HD

[Planeden]

Bulk reef supply sells tonga rock.

[esacjack]

reef saver rock is good stuff. Its super porous. What I do is take a 1/2" bit, and drill out some extra holes so that my plugs fit. I cant claim credit for knowing to do that, I learned it from mFrame

[nuxx]

Going to use Marco Rocks for the 450 build.

Before I put the rock in the tank, I'm going to acid bath it, then cure it for about a month.

Too much "junk" pops up with live rock IMO. I'll have a few VERY nice pieces of LR I'm going to seed the tank with though.