victoly Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 So to wrap this up, you DO need the catalytic carbon to get your chloramines down to zero. These take the place of the 5 micron carbon filter, and its a refillable hard plastic BRS cartridge. Now i have two unopened BRS 5 micron carbon filters and one that was used for like a month. Anyone want to make me an offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esacjack Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 do you think the jump in Cl could have any relation to the bloom of film algae/brown film I've been seeing on my smaller tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherita Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 victoly, I think we talked about this a while back didn't we? I'm glad to see the published results, it pretty much confirms what melev told me. And, it's interesting to read the progression. I have zero coming out of my system, but mine has been modded with an extra housing, so I'm running cat carbon and two carbon blocks before the membrane. No chloramines will escape me! One thing melev did mention, any amount of chloramine that makes it through the carbon to the membrane can cause damage to the membrane over time and dramatically shorten the life span of the membrane. I'm really curious, would you be willing to test your water that is exiting the carbon, but before the membrane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 It's intersting following this and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I'm running systems with RO/DI, RO and just tapwater treated with ammodetox and haven't really seen much of a difference. Here's two videos of reef systems being maintained with just tapwater: (this system has been running with tapwater for over five years now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 victoly, I think we talked about this a while back didn't we? I'm glad to see the published results, it pretty much confirms what melev told me. And, it's interesting to read the progression. I have zero coming out of my system, but mine has been modded with an extra housing, so I'm running cat carbon and two carbon blocks before the membrane. No chloramines will escape me! One thing melev did mention, any amount of chloramine that makes it through the carbon to the membrane can cause damage to the membrane over time and dramatically shorten the life span of the membrane. I'm really curious, would you be willing to test your water that is exiting the carbon, but before the membrane? Absolutely. I'll put it in queue for this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 It's intersting following this and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I'm running systems with RO/DI, RO and just tapwater treated with ammodetox and haven't really seen much of a difference. Here's two videos of reef systems being maintained with just tapwater: (this system has been running with tapwater for over five years now) You've got the touch tim! The reason I do RODI is that I'd like to try to reduce the variability of what I'm putting in to my tank. Many of us have seen the seasonal variability that occurs with even water that has been though the RODI. You clearly have some kind of voodoo that allows you to grow great tanks with tap water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Actually the first system belongs to Bay Tran, it isn't one I maintain. This seaonal fluctuation you mention puzzles me. I'm certain there are some measurable changes in tap water seasonally and more likely depending on how much rain we recieve but I do not see changes in my systems like other people report. And this is irregardless of whether my systems are being maintained with tapwater, RO or RO/DI. If this is noticable in some systems but not in my systems which usually are much simpler why? I don't know what Bay's maintenance schedule is but as far as some kind of voodoo the maintnenance on the system in the 2nd video get's is every 10 - 14 days is it's first topped off with 15 - 20 gallons of tap water to replace what's evaporated (it's a 240 gallon with no external or internal filtration equipment) then it gets a 20 gallon water change and a 1/4 cup of aragamight and sporadicly some super buffer. You can't get much simpler than that and I don't see much magic there just consistant water changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 curious, how old are the tanks your maintaining and how old are all the tanks reporting this season flux? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Maybe it's a result of some kind of chemical reaction that occurs (or does not occur) in your DSBs or your lack of skimmer? The problem with reef tanks is that there are *so* many variables, excluding livestock, that it is really difficult to tease out a root cause, if there even is only one (maybe many). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Mines at a little over a year under my care, maybe another year or two under original owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Mines at a little over a year under my care, maybe another year or two under original owners. could be about maturing or like you said a reaction. also the people that report issues typically have 1 DT and are always reaching in and adjusting stuff, obviously this doesnt happen on the tanks above in the video since they get serviced about twice a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 dead skin cells and lotion = cyano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 constantly blowing off coral, adjusting water, adding chemicals, removing chemicals, disturbing sediment was more on my mind but hey lotion and dead cells might get you some funky algae! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 no stupid questions, just stupid people, right? so, stupid person, can you not just treat the water with a tap water conditioner that removes chloromines before putting it into your tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 no stupid questions, just stupid people, right? so, stupid person, can you not just treat the water with a tap water conditioner that removes chloromines before putting it into your tank? That is an option. My preference is to "start with a clean slate" and try to pull out as much as I can and then remix my salt water to exact specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Mines at a little over a year under my care, maybe another year or two under original owners. could be about maturing or like you said a reaction. also the people that report issues typically have 1 DT and are always reaching in and adjusting stuff, obviously this doesnt happen on the tanks above in the video since they get serviced about twice a month. Bay qualifies as this type of aquarist always changing things around in his tank but he does do consistant water changes. Hs 300 gallon system was less than two years old but he had a 60 gallon that was about two years old when it everything was moved to his 300 so it could be argued his system is about 4 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 dead skin cells and lotion = cyano If only! Sunscreen has been linked to issues with corals: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291018/ Triclosan when exposed to sunlight makes dioxins: http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/05/18/u.minn.study.finds.rising.levels.dioxins.common.soap.ingredient.mississippi.river I have to wonder to what extent the formation of dioxins happens with the lighting that many of us use in our tanks. I will not use either sunscreen or antibacterial soaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 GAC removes dioxin pretty handily, but maybe a push to use tools/gloves would be beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Drummmroolllllllll, chloramines are ZERO out of the RO membrane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 What's the ammonia or are you using something for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 No ammonia test kit. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 .03 is enough to kill off most of your species of coral. Problem w/ this checker is the margin of error exceeds the tolerable limit of a saltwater environment, making the checker irrelevant. Is it 0 or is it .03 ? These checkers are not made sensitive enough for our use. Better suited for drinking water and food production. Best thing is to add more DI to the purification system. This is what will remove all traces of the NH2CL. The so called chloramine blasters you can add are simply replacing the GAC filters with more resin based filters and giving the resin more exposure time on the front end. So why not go ahead and run the water thru the RO membrane and save the more expensive DI membrane on the back end, and just add another DI bucket to give the total system more DI exposure time to remove all NH2CL. RO could be eliminated entirely and it would not affect your saltwater system, but it can make your DI resin last longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 .03 is enough to kill off most of your species of coral. Problem w/ this checker is the margin of error exceeds the tolerable limit of a saltwater environment, making the checker irrelevant. Is it 0 or is it .03 ? These checkers are not made sensitive enough for our use. Better suited for drinking water and food production. Best thing is to add more DI to the purification system. This is what will remove all traces of the NH2CL. The so called chloramine blasters you can add are simply replacing the GAC filters with more resin based filters and giving the resin more exposure time on the front end. So why not go ahead and run the water thru the RO membrane and save the more expensive DI membrane on the back end, and just add another DI bucket to give the total system more DI exposure time to remove all NH2CL. RO could be eliminated entirely and it would not affect your saltwater system, but it can make your DI resin last longer. I disagree with you on several points. Point 1) The tester is plenty viable for our hobby. With initial detection of 0.04 through a standard RODI system, even with a 0.03 accuracy range, there is *still* a detection that is statistically significant (at least 0.01 mg/l). Point 2) Given my testing thus far, it would be very difficult to get 0.03 mg/l of chloramine into your system unless you mixed up straight undechlorinated water. Your water change is a percentage of total system volume, and in real world situations quickly reacts with any number of things in your tank and leaves corals relatively unharmed. In other words, we are not creating and maintaining concentrations at 0.03 mg/l in our tanks. Point 3) I would rather spend money on consumables replacing carbon than DI for the simple reason that carbon is much more effective at removing a wide range of things than DI resin is. DI resin just polishes and removes the last remaining TDS, while carbon does much of the heavy lifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherita Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Drummmroolllllllll, chloramines are ZERO out of the RO membrane. Did you ever get a chance to test the water coming from the carbon blocks before it enters the membrane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 Oh that's what you wanted ? I can try that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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