Chloramines in City of Austin Water

[victoly]

Just a head's up to all you fine folks on city of austin water:

I puchased a hanna total chlorine HC, and did a little testing of our water. My findings are:

1)Tap water came in at 1.89 ppm.

2) After going through my RODI, it came out with chloramine of 0.04 ppm. The +/- is 0.03 ppm, so its definitely had at the very least a small detection of 0.01 ppm. I need to repeat my test a few times to verify results, and then test my tank after a water change, but I still found it interesting. Also to note, my carbon block is only a month or two old, but my DI resin is about a year old.

[(Bio)³]

so will these levels hurt a tank at all? Sorta blows that I just ordered a regular kit, might have to adjust it slightly

[victoly]

I kinda doubt it, i think that if it's in a closed loop with carbon in your tank, that a reading of 0.01 would eventually dissipate.

[mFrame]

I just bought a replacement carbon filter for my RO/DI, but noticed that BRS has one specifically for the removal of chloramines. Should those of us on Austin water be using that one?

[victoly]

I picked one up in my order, I'll do testing then to see if it makes a difference. It may be as simple as changing your carbon block more regularly (i do mine semiannually, but maybe quarterly is more in order). More testing is in order!

[victoly]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

Here's the RHF article on chloramines. Tends to mirror my observations about the carbon blocks letting some chloramine through.

[Robb in Austin]

From my research on chloramines back in 2008, an extra filter on your RODI for chloramines is an extra nicety but not a requirement. You can add Ammolock or Prime or whatever de-chlorinator you like and achieve the same result.

I don't use the extra filter on my RODI system, or even add de-chlorinator, and haven't noticed any ill effects in 5 years.

[George Monnat Jr]

victoly, have you tested any of the LFS water, like RCA's? I haven't put together a RODI station, so I'm curious how theirs compares. Thanks for posting this.

[Robb in Austin]

My guess on LFS water is; prolly the same and potentially with higher TDS.

[victoly]

George: nope. I'd be happy to test if you get me a sample.

[+olaggie01]

I run a chloramine filter on my ro/di but more of a safety measure. I do know that the City of Georgetown runs chloramines on occasion and I'm sure that the time they do use chloramine, I'll be filling up 30g of RO/DI water. Small safety net.

[victoly]

So I tested again after replacing my DI resin, and still came out with .02 ppm, repeatedly. My carbon block is only a few months old! What I'm thinking of trying out is putting in a new carbon block and testing weekly to see how long they last, and calculate a gallonage. Pesky HC only came with 6 packets, so I'm going to have to get another box. More money to hanna

[George Monnat Jr]

I finally got around to reading that article and saw that the worst case was <0.005 ppm-Cl killing 50% of the oysters, clams and copepods within 48-96 hours. No wonder my clam died! Looks like 0.02 ppm-Cl kills off most amphipods and phytoplankton, too.

Here's a quote for others who haven't read the article as a potential bottom line:

In its assessment of chloramine toxicity to marine invertebrates, Environment Canada (the Canadian equivalent of the United States Environmental Protection Agency, EPA) determined the Estimated
No-Effects Value (ENEV) based on this type of data to be 0.002 ppm-Cl for marine and estuarine environments.

How much chloramine should one allow into an aquarium? That, of course, depends on what is in the aquarium. In the absence of knowing the toxicity of chloramine to every inhabitant of the aquarium (or of even knowing the identity of every inhabitant), it seems prudent to have chloramine levels far below those where the most sensitive organisms are killed, and that chloramine concentration is somewhere well below 0.005 ppm-Cl. The value suggested by Environment Canada seems like a reasonable maximum.

[victoly]

I still need to test my tank water to see what happens once it makes it into the tank (i suspect that at levels that low, that it reacts with stuff in the tank (hopefully not inhabitants so much!)) but i need to order more reagent sachet's before i get too hot and heavy.

[George Monnat Jr]

I still need to test my tank water to see what happens once it makes it into the tank (i suspect that at levels that low, that it reacts with stuff in the tank (hopefully not inhabitants so much!)) but i need to order more reagent sachet's before i get too hot and heavy.

Let me know how much the packets cost, and I'll reimburse you for some of the testing.

[victoly]

No way. This is for science

[George Monnat Jr]

Then you'll be selling the published results?

[victoly]

I'll be patenting my process and retiring to a tropical island.

[(Bio)³]

I'm gonna bring a sample of water for you when I drop off your items. Going to be with fresh filter kit in my RODI so I can see the reading. I've got clams and other bivalves in my tanks without issue so far which doesnt make sense if .005 will kill them.

[victoly]

I suspect that once it hits your tank, that the amount of reactable stuff in your tank takes 0.02 ppm to zero pretty quickly without much effect on the system at large. When you think of 0.02 ppm, you're in the hundred million range, or, drops in a swimming pool .

[victoly]

So I added one of these from BRS:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/2021/

after my 5 micron carbon filter.

I flushed about a gallon or so through the new pentek chloramine 1 micron carbon filter and still got a 0.02 ppm reading on my hanna. So i emptied my RODI brute out and refilled it today. I'll take another reading this evening and see where I stand.

[George Monnat Jr]

Can containers add chloramine? I know a lot of plastic/rubber containers contain significant amounts of Cl, I just don't know if that can break free and recombine into chloramine. I'm just wondering if that can significantly throw off the reading, having the sample sitting in a PVC or similar container (like my RODI is right now).

[victoly]

Can containers add chloramine? I know a lot of plastic/rubber containers contain significant amounts of Cl, I just don't know if that can break free and recombine into chloramine. I'm just wondering if that can significantly throw off the reading, having the sample sitting in a PVC or similar container (like my RODI is right now).

I read it's primarily produced with gaseous Cl and NH4, but who knows.

Just got off chat with BRS, and apparently the 5 micron carbon block is only marginally effective at removing chloramines and that the KEY to chloramine removal is no the polishing that the pentek chloramine block provides, but the catalytic carbon that one uses in place of the standard 5 micron carbon block.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/166/

ugh. in my quest for perfection, I'm ending up with way too many things that I'll never open, i just bought a set of new carbon blocks. Anyone need to BRS order?

[George Monnat Jr]

I can always use stuff from BRS. Give me some time to remember what it is I wanted immediately after the last order...

[victoly]

So i did a little testing on some of our LFS (credit to George Monnat Jr for picking up samples). Both sources were adequate IMO, but RCA had undetectable total chlorine in two separate samples. Fishy Business had 0.03/0.05 ppm of total chlorine (includes chlorine/chloramines), which is about what I've been getting out of my standard RODI system, even with pentek chloramine buster. Apparently I didn't get the memo that there is a critical portion of the chloramine removal process.

BRS sells "catalytic carbon" which you put in front of the pentek chlorine filter. This catalytic carbon takes the place of your 5u carbon filter and is a refillable BRS container. I get my shipment in on friday and I'll let y'all know how it goes.