nvrEnuf Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Just got off the phone with an old insurance adjuster friend. He was calling asking for input about a claim he is dealling with, here is the scenario: Insured evidently has a "rider" on his policy for $50K insuring his 280 gallon tank. This is similar to high dollar electronics, rare books, expensive guns, jewelry etc. Some insurance companies allow tanks to be scheduled, some do not. SPEAK WITH YOUR INSURANCE AGENT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE INSURANCE ON YOUR TANK!!! So, my buddy calls me and the convo goes like this: "Hey J, I have a couple questions I hope you can help with, you're into fish tanks right?" "yup, and I think I am about to very sad for someone and thier tank!" "Yeah, evidently it's pretty severe he is looking to cash out his $50K rider" "whoa! how big is the tank and do you know if it's salt or fresh?" "280 gallons, salt" "Okay, depending on livestock that isn't actually that absurd" "has has an equipment list, and a stocking list. He is only seeking recovery for the stock" "Uh-oh that means we might have coverage issues, what has he said was the cause of the crash?" "A Carpet cleaning" "hmmm, that is possible, but not very probable with the cleaning chems I use. Do you have any more detail?" "yes, I have an e-receipt from a carpet cleaning company from the day before the DOL (date of loss)" "Okay, can you send me a pic?" "sure, are you going to call the company?" "yeah, let me do some digging and I will call you back" "great, thanks so much!" The "carpet cleaning" company: "Hi, My name is Jason and I have a few questions about your cleaning methods" "Okay, I am Dave what can I do for you?" "Can you tell me who manufactures your cleaning chems?" "Sure, it's Pro Choice" (non of Pro's Choice chems would be an issue for a tank unless directly ADDED to the tank) "And would I find anything on a van that isn't Pro's Choice?" "well, yeah. We actually use ammonia to pre-treat pet stains...(and then he begins trying to explain why" "No need to continue sir, I am an IICRC certified carpet tech, I know the chemistry. What you may not know though is that the $12 a gallon you are saving by not using the approved product is that in doing so you have killed absolutly everything in a 280 gallon fish tank. Moreover, that's the only tank I know of and I would bet there are a lot more out there! It's people like you that give people like me a bad name, I would suggest calling a lawyer because Farmers insurance is about to subrogate against you!" Back to the adjuster: "Yo!?" "pay the claim, subrogate agaisnt the carpet cleaning company, they used ammonia as a pet pre treatment!!!!!" "what does that do to a fish tank?" "It kills it, at a concentration this jack a$$ was talking about the tank wouldn't have survived more than 10 minutes without affect. An hour maybe two for compete die off" "well ****, I would have never known!" "most wouldn't, thanks for knowing who to call, that claim would have been denied if you hadn't." ...etc. I can only guess at how many tanks "carpet cleaning" company has killed! This is a great example of why to have your tank scheduled on your renters or home owners policy if possible. Even if a rider is not available, if you're not willing to switch to a company that is, at least have a note added to your file stating the value of the equipment; it may serve as your only evidence in a catastrophic fire. This goes for guns, electronics and cameras, and jewelry. If not scheduled, they are capped and I can almost promise you the category cap is never enough!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have it as part of my home insurance through State Farm. I specifically set my Value with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 This was a state farm claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 You put Farmer's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ya, I screwed up when talking to the carpet guy because I was so enraged! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That's also why you never let anyone in your home to provide a service until you know exactly what they're doing. My exterminator told me several times that they could treat for fleas, no problem. Turns out they expected to cover my tank with an airtight tent for 3 days, didn't see any reason that would be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 That's also why you never let anyone in your home to provide a service until you know exactly what they're doing. My exterminator told me several times that they could treat for fleas, no problem. Turns out they expected to cover my tank with an airtight tent for 3 days, didn't see any reason that would be a problem. I wasn't going to point it out; this guy evidently left his wife in charge and it never raised a flag with her until fish started dying. First thing I did when I set up my first tank: Walked the wife through the house throwing away anything with Ammonia in it. She is offically trained! Even comes to me every once in awhile asking "is this tank safe?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yikes! Great information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 So does ammonia in the air hurt the tank? I use glass cleaner on the tank and I'm pretty sure it's ammonia. I spray it onto a rag first of course and not the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm 100% intrested in the answer Ckyuv's question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ugh! The real answer to this question lies in O2 exchange. I did not get the chance to see this system, so I don't know how much surface exchange this system had. But, I can tell you that with a pressurized pre-sprayer common to the industry I can lay .25 gallons of straight ammonia on 250 SF of flooring in about 20-30 seconds. I can only imagine the aresolized exchange incorporated into the enviroment. Lets just say that even a "light" application of pre-spray would easily leave a film on the surface water of a non covered tank. If I had to put numbers on it.....1/8 of an once of straight ammonia per 5 SF of surface water depending on RH% of the room....whatever the numbers, it equates to way more bad stuff than you want in a tank in way too short of an amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Makes sense. I had my skimmer airline ran outside after about a month of starting my tank since my house has foam insulation and a higher then normal co2 count since it has so little air exchange. I'm guessing if he had his skimmer pulling air from inside it would draw some aerosolized. I guess I didn't really think about massive amounts of ammonia being aerosolized next to the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaFan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Good read... Thanks guus Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 And I will be calling USAA today to have them add a rider. Thanks for the interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 ahh what's going on with tank crashes or failures. just read this on rc http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096730 most of us have seen peters tank on YouTube. absolutely devastating loss to the reef community. His insurance is only covering water damage. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 TLDR: Homeowners will NOT cover your livestock, but will cover the equipment and damage to house in a catastrophe. Just relay what I learned today... I called USAA and was on the phone with then for almost as hour discussing my homeowners policy today. We spent a solid 30 minutes just discussing the aquarium. They had to get multiple different people on the line and transfer me 3 tines just to get an answer to my questions. They explained that the policy does not cover pets, whether it's a dog, cat, or fish. It does cover the tank and hardware as they are considered personal property. However to be clear, it will not cover manufacturing defects or normal wear. If the tank leaked due to some catastrophe, the policy would cover damage to the home under the dwellings part. They seemed to have no concerns there. Interesting enough, my personal injury rider would cover if someone accidentally hurt themselves or got hurt by the tank, plus my umbrella policy would too. This last part was disappointing... They do not offer any rider to cover the livestock, nor any pets. They suggested I look into pet insurance from a specialty insurance provider. I would suggest calling your insurance provider just to be sure. Plus I was able to negotiate a lower premium while on the phone so at least it wasn't a total waste of time. [emoji2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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