Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 So a lot of you know that I have been using red seas RCP program. Before this all I used was Kalk. So when,I purchased all the items I didn't go straight into it because they required certain parameters. In particular, the ABC + foundation elements is essentially supposed to replace Kalk. So,this was supposed to be used as needed. Before this, Kalk worked perfectly fine for me. So I got my established parameters in check, tested, noticed what was being consumed weekly, and broke down the dosing schedule accordingly. 2/3 of their claims came through. Calcium and magnesium were replenished exactly as it was supposed to. Alkalinity on the other hand went down. At this point my alkalinity went on a downhill spiral. It was going down daily at a very large rate for my coral load and my calcium and magnesium were unchanged. I dosed sodium bicarbonate to maintain alkalinity. I struggled a bit for two months but got everything back into check. I tried justifying what happened by saying that maybe I didn't shake the product long enough and some extreme settling occured. Well just a few days ago I decided it was time to try it again after almost 3 months. I started shaking the product 24 hours in advance. I would give it a good 10-15 min shake every hour while awake. So it definitely wasn't a settling issue this time around. Instructions call for you to add it directly to the sump or in front of a PH. I mixed it with tank water instead and try to let it dissolve. I then poured it slowly into the sump. Now I wasn't trying to raise anything here. My numbers were in check. I was simply trying to replenish parameters here as directed. So the stuff runs through my return pump and I notice tiny clusters of this stuff blowing around in my tank. It lands on a ton of my sps. I blow it off with a Turkey baster. Next day I saw RTN on stuber Staghorn acro colony (colony completely gone), STN on red monti cap, green monti cap, rainbow pocci, northern lights acro, cheesecake acro, Bali green slimer, red planet acro, meteor shower cyphastrea, Jedi mind trick, and probably a few others I can't name at the moment. I know everything was followed as stated. My tank was flourishing before this event. And it makes absolutely no sense how something that is supposed to raise dKH is actually lowering it. So pissed right now. Very emotional and feel sick to my stomach watching this stuff die on me. Red sea has lost a loyal customer thanks to a garbage $15 product. . . . . I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I feel you manny Getting alk right is probably the hardest part of the hobby, and something I'm currently going through myself, and I have all the bells and whistles. Just two thoughts: 1) It may have been that adding the alk supplement was giving your stock the elements needed to kickstart their grown, leading to consumption? 2) What is your alk testing regimen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I test alk weekly using red sea pro test kit. When I added the ABC elements for the first time, if I remember correctly, my consumption went up to about .5 dKH daily, 3.5dKH weekly. No way in hell my light coral load was consuming this much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Before that consumption was 1.2 dKH weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 What were your alk levels in the tank before and after this incident? I know rapid changes in alk have caused STN in my SPS and caused a lot of death and destruction. Sorry to hear about that, I know it's insanely frustrating. My tank is still feeling the after effects of alk swings when my calcium reactor went haywire. Still trying to get alk levels stable 5 months later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Just so I understand correctly. You were dosing kalk. Then you switch to Red Sea, discontinued the Read sea and switched to sodium bicarb, and then back to red sea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry for the losses Manny. The tank was looking pretty good too. If you're an SPS keeper, alk is always going to be a thorn in your side. One slip and poof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If you're serious about keeping them, kalk, 2-part dosing, or a CaRX are a must in my opinion. It's hard for me to trust anything else other than those 3 tried and true staples of dosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry to hear this Manny. I have to say this is the reason I use the AB&C seperatly rather than the pre-mix powder. I too seem to go through a lot of part B with a daily DKH drop of about .2. Leaving me dosing about 15-20 ML of part B daily which seems a bit out of ratio considering my Ca and Mg almost never move at all and I only dose them weekly. Now, this could be because of the turf scrubber which I am thinking it is as DKH drop has leveled off a bit recently as my tank is currently fallow and the scrubber has WAY slowed down it's growth due to little nutrients in the tank. Terrible to hear about the RTN and STN...thanks for confirming not to switch over to the powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry Manny. I had high hopes for the Red Sea program when you started. The cloudiness sounds like the precipitation that happens when you dose 2 part alk too fast. I've seen it happen with even a very slow stream of dose solution from a cup into water. I've read that it is due to the temporary high PH that happens in the water where the dosing solution hits it. That's why it has to be dripped slowly to allow it to dissipate before the localized PH buildup. It's possible that those white clumps you saw had extreme high alk/ph that was not evenly dissolved in the water? Not sure if any of that applies to the Red Sea solutions though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I was battling alk for a little while, using reef builders (powder). I could not get the alk up to an acceptable level no matter what I did. I broke down and bought the 2 part kit from BRS and boom my alk is spot on and my calc is as well. The dosers with my apex are amazing. I can't imagine I will have too many alk problems (fingers crossed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I've run 2-part and Carx for 4 years now... better go knock on wood Madsalt... I still get alk issues on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I didn't say any lol, just hope not to have too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Just so I understand correctly. You were dosing kalk. Then you switch to Red Sea, discontinued the Read sea and switched to sodium bicarb, and then back to red sea?I used Kalk for a year. I tried red sea ABC once. Didn't and threw my alk off balance so instead of Kalk to fix it, since I only needed to fix alk, I used sodium bicarbonate. This seemed to have stunned my calcium and mag uptake. Once things got back on track and were being consumed equally, I tried red seq once again. That's when this happened. It is important to note that I used to run alk at 9.5 dKH before red sea ABC. Then I needed to raise alk to 11.6 so I did this with weekly 5 gallon WC using red sea coral pro mix. Then when,everything was ready, I used ABC again. So total I used it twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry for the losses Manny. The tank was looking pretty good too. If you're an SPS keeper, alk is always going to be a thorn in your side. One slip and poof!It's just odd that this product claims to raise alk and it ended up reducing it twice. Good thing is this happened before my big coral order comes in this week. Going back to alk in my top off until I need to buy a doser. I Will be buying a bubble magus doser. That and an apex are in my near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry Manny. I had high hopes for the Red Sea program when you started. The cloudiness sounds like the precipitation that happens when you dose 2 part alk too fast. I've seen it happen with even a very slow stream of dose solution from a cup into water. I've read that it is due to the temporary high PH that happens in the water where the dosing solution hits it. That's why it has to be dripped slowly to allow it to dissipate before the localized PH buildup. It's possible that those white clumps you saw had extreme high alk/ph that was not evenly dissolved in the water? Not sure if any of that applies to the Red Sea solutions though ...No precipitation when added. It states to add directly to sump. It Will not mix with freshwater. I really think it was a bad batch because it would actually lower dKH. I'm contacting them about it but come on let's be real, would they even consider replacing my coral? No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sorry Manny. I had high hopes for the Red Sea program when you started. The cloudiness sounds like the precipitation that happens when you dose 2 part alk too fast. I've seen it happen with even a very slow stream of dose solution from a cup into water. I've read that it is due to the temporary high PH that happens in the water where the dosing solution hits it. That's why it has to be dripped slowly to allow it to dissipate before the localized PH buildup. It's possible that those white clumps you saw had extreme high alk/ph that was not evenly dissolved in the water? Not sure if any of that applies to the Red Sea solutions though ...Also, don't let this ruin it for you. Everything else has worked fine. My tank loves reef energy. I just think the all in one foundation elements was a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 An apex just popped up fs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 So back to basics it is. Only dead coral is my,stuber stag colony but I had two of those and that is my fastest growing acro. I hope the rest recover. I haven't really lost many coral and even things that STN in the past have recovered. I do apologize about my rant guys but I was extremely upset when I wrote this. Don't let it give red sea a bad name. Most their stuff is on point. I personally think their nitrate pro test kit is the best on the planet and I love the Ca, dKH, and Mg tests. Unfortunately it seems the bars always outweighs the goods. I'm also in a bad state of mind right now. It's a tough time. My son just had surgery 2 weeks ago. My wife fractured her ankle and had surgery Thursday to include an accessory bone removal. I missed class that day and my professor is counting that against me. Gave me a zero on my quiz for that day. Refuses to drop it and says I just need to try harder now. Dropped my grade to 89.7% . this is frustrating because I have a 4.0. I have very high standards for school. Saturday at work I hurt my back. It got so bad Sunday I went to the hospital and,I have a fractured disc. Got some steroid injections in my back. Saw a back specialist today and said he is leaning towards surgery on my back due to the amount of damage. I'm in a world of pain. So yes this all is just building up on me. But I have to look at the positive. I just bought new lights, I have some insane coral coming in this week, I just sold my photon 48 (need help getting it to Austin), I keep in touch with our local BCS reefer group on a daily basis (no joke, we text,via group message every single day), and I have a beautiful loving family at home. No room to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Manny, hit me up about transporting you reef breeders. I'm in Cameron multiple times a week and I can jump over to Hearn to meet you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Manny, hit me up about transporting you reef breeders. I'm in Cameron multiple times a week and I can jump over to Hearn to meet you.Awesome dude. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Manny, hit me up about transporting you reef breeders. I'm in Cameron multiple times a week and I can jump over to Hearn to meet you.I would offer you a free frag but after the devastation there is not much to offer. I will get you in time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It's ok bud. I'm currently tankless. My tank sprung a leak for the second time and we were scared the panel was going to let loose since it was rimless so it got broken down. I bought a 240 last weekend and will be building that as well as my frag tank. I just hadn't said anything on the club publicly yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Tough times homie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yep as of right now I'm a poser lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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