Manny Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I reread my post here and let me assure you there is no sarcasm intended. I mean it, I would love to see you have success with it and share your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Timfish. Your stance on protein skimming is well documented on here, as well as the videos of the tanks you've maintained and the scholarly articles you've cited as well. I'm familiar with those. Curious though. What are your thoughts on using a protein skimmer only removing the cap on the drain plug, that way it is allowed to constantly overflow back into the tank, never collecting anything. Just being used as a super aggressive bubble wand essentially. Would that have the same negative impact on bacterial populations as say just unplugging it entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 What are your thoughts on using a protein skimmer only removing the cap on the drain plug, that way it is allowed to constantly overflow back into the tank, never collecting anything. Just being used as a super aggressive bubble wand essentially. Would that have the same negative impact on bacterial populations as say just unplugging it entirely? I feel like your just describing an expensive aerator that uses a lot of power! I wish I could find the old thread where someone asked about feeding corals skimmate you just reminded me of it even tho that's not what you were asking lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Well. Kind of. But if you already had a skimmer that's less of an issue. And if your skimmer has a whisper quiet ultra energy efficient pump (a-la the bubble magus curve 5). My issue is more the fact that I have been running it for a while now, and about a month ago decided to pull the plug on the drain and stop collecting, but rather than remove it I figured I would work well to keep the water oxygenated. They're fantastic at gas exchange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 one of my favorite threads. cant wait to see the coral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I reread my post here and let me assure you there is no sarcasm intended. I mean it, I would love to see you have success with it and share your experience. Aahm, I didn't read any sarcasm in your question, I've just been pretty busy and haven't been able to keep up with my postings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Timfish. Your stance on protein skimming is well documented on here, as well as the videos of the tanks you've maintained and the scholarly articles you've cited as well. I'm familiar with those. Curious though. What are your thoughts on using a protein skimmer only removing the cap on the drain plug, that way it is allowed to constantly overflow back into the tank, never collecting anything. Just being used as a super aggressive bubble wand essentially. Would that have the same negative impact on bacterial populations as say just unplugging it entirely? If you've got the skimmer installed go for it. As far as how well a skimmer actually oxygenates or degasses is somewhat up in the air. I've tried to find a book puplished by TFH Publications about 40 years ago (I'm not saying how long ago I read it!) on saltwater systems but, if I am remembering it correctly, it had a research paper that looked at skimming and there was some question how well skimming worked because the bubbles are, 1) under static pressure which reduces the ability for gas exchange and 2) the surface of the bubble is coated with protein molecules which inhibit gas exchange. As I remember it the book also had a paper that looked at degassing and found it much harder to get rid of CO2 than to absorb oxygen. What I find incongruous, and perhaps someone has some links, is while it is almost universally believed skimming is good at gas exchange I haven't found any research papers that demonstrate how well or how fast it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I didn't save the link so I can't cite it, but I did read recently that on a clownfish breeding facility they measured higher amounts of disolved oxygen on the tanks that were skimmed versus those that weren't. If the skimmer overflows fast enough I don't see why it would be any worse than a bubble wand as far as bubbles getting coated and being ineffective. Provided the chamber contact time was reduced enough. I ask because this is what I'm specifically doing. Close to a month in the experiment now and I haven't noticed any explosion in nuisance algae or angry corals. Quite the opposite actually. I may remove the bubble plate in the skimmer body, which by design reduces turbulence in the reaction chamber, increasing contact time. I'm wanting the opposite effect. Fast overflow and low control qc time since I only want oxygenation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Tim, glad you didn't see any sarcasm in my post. It just seemed to me, when I read it, that it could be misunderstood to me being sarcastic and not believing you could keep an echinata alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Believe it or not, besides in my 125-gallon for 3 years and looking really good from the stability, my echinata looked it's best in my system when my salinity was 1.031 and my nitrates were 60 ppm. My phosphates were still pretty low, around 0.03 ppm but while all my other sps were dying, my echinata and even my setosa were beamingly beautiful.When I corrected the salinity and lowered my nitrates, my echinata started STNing and my other corals started looking happier. My setosa lost a little color but was just as happy as the rest while my echinata slowly died.Now that it has been stable, it's growing again and looking better but not as good as when I was in the old tank and not as good as when it was in 60 ppm of nitrates and 1.031 salinity. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'll see if I can dig up some pictures and document the different conditions the echinata was in and how it looked during that timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Pictures, finially! http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/Timfishone/media/Acropora/A%20tortusa%20echinata%20Yehaskel%20march%202015_zpsfdbl0sub.jpeg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And a couple more http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/Timfishone/media/Acropora/A%20tortusa%20echinata%20TFC%20March%202015_zpspw1cix4f.jpg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Thanks for posting Tim. I'll be interested to see the progress. Anyone else with Hawkins care to play. Post a pic of your specimen with your light and tank params? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaFan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 HELP PLEASE... this is one of my favorite posts, and my biggest issue at the moment. I can't get my PO4 levels down and my tank is being consumed by GHA. I've had a few SPS die and I think the PO4 is contributing. I need advice on what to do because what I've been trying obviously isn't working. - 20% water change every 2 weeks - Ran ROWAPhos for several weeks, but it was messy and didn't do anything - Running 1 cup of BRS normal capacity GFO in BRS reactor - Change GFO every 2 weeks - RODI water for ATO and water changes shows 000 on TDS meter - I feed 2 pinches of NLS pellets Thera +A every day (the fish would eat more) - Blue LEDs run 1pm-10pm - White LEDs run 2pm-9pm - Blue tuxedo urchin doesn't even look at the GHA... grrr I've read very little about carbon dosing... is that something I should try? I also stopped vacuuming my sand bed during water changes about when this issue began. I don't want to have to do that again, but maybe I should until I get this under control. Please let me know your thoughts and experience... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Tank size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaFan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 150 gal... I forgot to mention I don't have any macro algae in the sump. I'd prefer not to have to do that either, but I'm open. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 check your source water with an additional TDS meter. check your makeup saltwater for PO4. take a rock out of your tank soak it in RODI for a few days. See if it leached PO4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 It looks like you are doing everything you need to do to address the problem. How long has it been since you changed the filters and DI resin last? I'm sure they are doing their job but was asking to see how long it's been since you have been using 0 TDS water. I'd estimate that I ran my DI spent for roughly 2 months... during that time I was dumping 14 TDS water into my tank. Cyano and macro algae grew like crazy! I've probably been running with 0 TDS the last month and the cyano and macro algae have decreased significantly but they are still there. I'm being patient with it as I'm sure there was a large accumulation of nutrients during that time and the macro algae and cyano got a foothold in my system. Eventually, my system will revert to its normal balance and the cyano and macro algae will go away. As long as you're seeing progress, I'd let it be and keep doing what you're doing. If not, perhaps look into shortening your light cycle or backing up on your whites channel and running more actinic? Any thoughts to the red LEDs in your fixture aiding in the macro growth? I'd also manually pull as much as possible. I can only lend to what I've experienced but I'll share what had worked for me for a SPS dominated system... oversized skimmer, GFO reactor, biopellet reactor, carbon, and CaRX. No water changes, no mechanical filtration (filter socks), and no vacuuming of the sand ever. Mileage may vary but it worked like a charm on my old 125-gallon and my 215-gallon. I even experimented a bit at the start of my 215-gallon and tried to remove pellets and also GFO but found the greatest success when I just repeated the same formula of my old tank. Hope the input helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaFan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks guys... I should have started a new thread instead of hi-jacking this one :-) - Mixing salt water today and will test for PO4 - I hadn't thought about checking a rock for leaching PO4... I'll do that - Sediment, Carbon block, and DI resin are all brand new - I'll try backing off on the lights Ty, I'm seeing progress, but in the wrong direction. GHA keeps growing, and I can't figure out how PO4 is getting in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 One thing that seems to happen when you get GHA is that detritus and other stuff gets easily trapped in the algae, presumably giving more food directly to the algae. I think manual removal of the GHA and blowing off the rocks with turkey baster regularly is a good practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 A substantial majority of the phosphate is going to be sourced from food. The rest is either going to be leached from the rocks/sand or from the source water. I'd run those tests that Victoly mentioned to identify what else may be contributing. It doesn't hurt to run a tad more aggressive on the PO4 removal via GFO... perhaps this is a case where the high capacity GFO may be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 You didn't mention what your P04 level was at. Nilsen and Fossa in Vol one of their "Modern Coral Reef Auarium" series detail the algae cycle for new aquariums and point out nuisance algae will dissapera on it's own. This article has a good discussion on phosphates and algae as well. My own experience mirrors these authors. The aquarium in this video shows the initial growth of both green hair algae and the more persistant red hair algae both dissapearing on their own with only manual removal done with weekly 5% water changes: https://youtu.be/UjMFWHC4uBM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaFan Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks Tim... I'm encouraged that it'll eventually go away. My tank is about 7-8 months old, so I had hoped I'd be through that by now. Maybe not. PO4 in my RODI and Salt water is 0.00 on my Hanna meter. I haven't measured PO4 in the tank because like Victoly said at the top of this thread... it's being consumed by the algae and it'll read low. I did about 2 hours of manual removal last night, and the tank looks much better. I'm sure it's temporary, but it was good to clean up a little mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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