Shawn's 29g Starter Tank - Mentor Program

[FarmerTy]

Hello ARC,

Shawn and I are excited to be able to be a part of this exciting program that El Jefe (Mike Frame), the big honcho of the board, has been developing in the background for some time now. His vision was to take the summation of our reefing knowledge and preserve it in a format that is helpful for the casual reefer to follow along with to aid in their own decisions for the setup, maintenance, and execution of their tanks. What better way than to follow through the process of a new reefer as they start their new reef and all the stages and decisions in between to their ultimate goal?

During this process, I hope to aid in the decision-making of our first mentee in the program, Shawn, and document the planning and decision making associated with his 29g starter build. The goal is to help Shawn achieve a broader understanding of the care and maintenance of his new tank and the biological functions that are occurring within it.

As Shawn and I had already discussed up to this point, the goal is not for me to say, if you do these specific things, run these specific reactors, and dose these specific things to your tank, you will magically have a functioning and healthy tank. There's no magic formula though there are many techniques and practices that do assure a higher success rate. My goal was to help Shawn read his tank, observe how it reacts regarding nutrient levels, livestock additions, parameter levels, etc, and be able to implement a custom program to maintain the success of the tank and work with what the tank is responding with.

There will be some growing pains to kicking off this new mentor program, so bear with us as we work out the kinks. In the end, hopefully we can achieve a build thread that is entertaining as well as educational.

I'll leave Shawn to tell us a little something about himself, his goals, and about the specifics of his tank that we will be working with.

Cheers,

-Ty

[ShawnKoto]

Hi All:

I recently got into reef keeping about a month ago and am now fully addicted. I spend most of my time and money trying to make my tank better. For me this is a learning experience. I, like all of you, find the ocean ecosystem to be amazing and beautiful and want to engage it in a meaningful way. My journey to saltwater started with freshwater, which I have to imagine is the same for most people. I was in the military for 10 years and came back from a deployment needing something that I could put my time into that was relaxing. So, I started an African Cichlid tank that I loved. I made some major mistakes while learning, but overall it has been a major success and one of the best experiences I have had with a hobby. I have the tank setup at this point and it pretty much runs itself--but I needed more of a challenge. I bought my first home last year with some of the money I saved during my deployment, and it is in a nice area, but is a total fixer upper, which means all of my time has been eaten up with renovation over the last couple years. I needed something else that would be fulfilling, interesting, and fun without being completely overwhelming like the house tends to be. Reef keeping has all these factors covered in spades and I decided to take the plunge.

The issue starting something complicated for the first time is that you are going to make mistakes, and when you are making mistakes with living organisms you probably want to start off small and take your time. There is SO much to learn in this hobby that I started researching for 2-3 months before jumping in. Also, I hung out at Aquadome a lot and bothered Hunter. He told me about ARC and I decided to join to meet people in the community. I noticed this Mentor Program that seemed to be meant for me. Someone brand new to the hobby and who is motivated, has a million questions, and is looking for advice from a experienced and successful reef keeper. I feel like Ty is going to be a great mentor for this and I am very thankful that he is willing to take this on and to ARC for having the program in the first place.

On to where I am at:

Although I have been moving at a fast clip, I did start off small. I found a scratched up 29BC for cheap on Craigslist with a stand, ~30lbs of live rock, a clownfish, pumps, and a bucket full of liquids. When I got it home I cleaned the entire thing in and out with bleach and water and got to work. You can see the tread that I started on my little build here: http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/32422-shawns-29g-starter-tank/. If you want to give any feedback on the mentor thread your thoughts and such please post there.

In the old thread I...

• Added sand and made the tank very cloudy
• Added in a CUC (Hermits, Snails, and Conches)
• Got my water parameters into a pretty good situation
• Added some Lavender Mushrooms, A Hairy Toadstool, and a Kenya Tree
• Added a tiny Blue Hippo tank
• The Tang got Ich
• I built a 10g Hospital/Quarantine tank
• The Tang beat Ich in the HT
• Went to the frag swap and scored a bunch of awesome frags

That is roughly where I am now. That thread has about three weeks of my start-up pre-mentor Ty and I will be doing everything in this thread from now on. However, only Ty and I can post in this forum, so I will be posting some things in my old thread so that maybe I can get some feedback--like a cheap frag rack I just built.

Here is my current setup:

Biocube 29g

Setup

• Controller: Apex (Not fully setup but will get Ty to help )
• Filtration: InTank Media Basket (Filter, Purigen, Chemi Pure)
• Fuge: Cheato and some other stuff
• Flow: hydor koralia (Purchased RW-4, on the way)
• IP Camera (PM for web address if interested )
• Lighting: Stock White CFL (Purchased Steve's LED conversion, on the way!)

Livestock

• Ocellaris Clownfish - Curtis (came with the tank)
• Pencil Wrasse
• Yasha Goby w/ Candy Pistol
• Emerald Crab
• 2x Turbos
• Money Cowrie
• 5x Blue Hermits

Coral:

• Lavender Mushrooms
• Kenya Tree Coral
• Hairy Toadstool
• Hunk of GSP
• Frags from the swap

HT/QT 10g

Livestock

• Ocellaris Clownfish
• Blue Hippo Tang
• Neon Blue Goby

I think that is a good, albeit long start, start. I think Ty is going to put together all the questions that I have asked him over the last couple days into a post to show you where we are.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

Hey Ty:

I have a ton of questions to get us started.

Good news. I am in possession of a used apex system! I found a guy selling the full system with the lab grade Ph, and with the netgear wireless adapter! I felt like that was a pretty good deal and jumped on it. So, I stayed up until about 2 a.m. and have it up and running.

On the not so good news side, a couple of the frags that I bought yesterday looks as though they have died in the transition And the worst is the jack-o-lantern. It is turning white in places and it was pretty darn expensive--I'm bummed. I think it is because of my lighting... it sucks... and so does my flow. That said, it is time to put this Apex to work.

Here my list of questions:

1. I see that the Jebao pumps are the way to go. I mean the Vortechs and the Tunzes are like $250 per controllable pump. So, I am thinking that two controllable WP10s would be great. I know that in a 29BC one could be enough, but my thought process is that I would rather run a couple at 50%ish in cool patterns than 1 at 70-90% in a pattern. Do you think this is a good plan?

2. My second question is that there is no wire to connect Jebaos to the Apex! I see a bunch of DIY forum posts out there for creating these, is that what you did? If so, where did you get the parts?

3. Lighting! I want to do a retrofit kit for my BC. Currently my lighting is terrible. So, after a ton of research I think the best bang for my buck is from steve's LEDs. Here is the retrofit kit here: http://shop.stevesle...-SPS-BC29RF.htm. I know that you're not running LEDs, but I was wondering if you are running 12000k or 14000k? I am not a big fan of the major blue colors, however I want the coral to grow as I imagine that is what this small tank will be used for long term.

I think that is it for now. Please let me know your thoughts, and thank you ahead of time for the time and patience. I very much appreciate your willingness to mentor.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(TY)

Great find on the Apex Shawn. I saw it for sale and its not common to find a used Apex system. The people who own them love them and won't ever sell unless they get out of the hobby, such as this person.

1) One thing on the lab grade probe... unless it was stored properly, ideally in a pH4 solution but workable as long as it was capped with liquid at the end of it, then it is probably no good anymore. You can get calibration solution at most LFS, closest to you I guess would be Aquadome. Hunter or Gary can help you out with that.

2) For you question regarding the cable, you can look up Reef Angel Jaebo cable and order two of them. I would get in touch with Victoly on the club and PM him to modify the cables. He was the one who did my cables for me.

3) I think one WP-10 is sufficient. You are correct in having two blowing back and forth and causing all kinds of interesting effects and patterns, but I feel it might be overkill in your 28, as well as they are bigger sized pumps and two may be an eyesore in your tank. I'll leave that to you as far as preference is concerned. Perhaps look into the newer RW-series of pumps from Jaebo. Still controllable but have a smaller footprint and their flow is more dispersed, like the Vortechs, instead of more directional, like the Jaebo WP-series.

4) Your corals dying scream to me water quality, more than lighting or flow. How old is your MH bulb? What spectrum? What are you using for flow in the tank? When's the last time you tested the water? What are your parameters?

5) With lighting, growth is always best at the lower kelvins, 7k, 8k, 10k grow coral much quicker than 12k, 14k, or 20k. Honestly, I would just settle for whatever your main tank is going to be. I've experimented with growth and spectrum and in my own experience, yes, you get a little more growth but its nominal, and not worth the spectrum change for the corals. Bringing them from 10k to 20k stresses them out and they also take a little while to color back up. I found it tedious to have to move all my frags that I wanted to sell to my 14k lighting and have them color up before selling. I'd aim for 12k or 14k since you don't like the overly 20k look.

6) As far as LED recommendations, that is where I will fail you as a mentor. I have not kept up at all and so a general question to the club would benefit you more greatly.

7) When you get a chance, can you update me on your process for bringing the corals home and acclimating them? I know we only had a little time to run over the process at the swap but I want to make sure they are getting acclimated properly, as that may be part of the reason for some coral loss as well. Also, can you fill me in on what you currently have in your system and a basic rundown of your husbandry procedures (water changes, lighting period, parameters in tank, livestock, etc)? I want to get the whole picture here so I can best help!

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

In my tank right now I have:

29 g BioCube

· Apex (By the way I calibrated the PH probe and it looks to be doing well so far. Did the 7 and 10 ph and it hit 7 in distilled so I think I am okay for now)

· Lighting... There is only one bulb working in the tank and it is this: http://www.marinedep...IAQRPBL-vi.html I know that is not good, this is why I need to order the Steve's LED's today

· Flow: a cheap koralia that came with the tank. I really like the rw-4 that you showed me. I think that I will get that.

· Filter: In-Tank Media basket. Layer one: filter floss, Layer two: Purigen, Layer 3: Chemi-Pure Elite.

Livestock:

· Clownfish

· Yasha Goby & Pistol Shrimp

· Fighting Conch

· Red Foot Conch

· 5x blue hermits

· 2 turbo snails

· Money Cowrie

· Emerald crab

My water parameters last I checked a couple days ago were:

Salinity- 1.024
Calcium- 255
Magnesium- 1160
Phosphate- 0.5
Ammonia- 0
pH- 7.9 - 8.0
Nitrite- <0.1
Nitrate- <5

I know the calcium is low, so I have been some calcium supplement that came with the tank to get it back up http://www.marinedep...IADCALC-vi.html I think that I am closer to 325 now.

In terms of husbandry:

I do a 5 gallon water change (15-25%) once or twice a week with pre-made water from Aquadome. It is hard for me to keep my water parameters in check in terms of minerals because it is super complicated. For instance, I know that there is a direct relationship between alkalinity, PH, Calcium, and Magnesium, like when you dose one raises and another one of them fall and that Magnesium has some ability to ease that transfer, but the more I read about it the more confused I get.

I put up a hospital tank and that seems to be doing well as well. I do daily water changes in that tank and am dosing copper.

Thoughts?

In terms of acclimation:

I came home and floated all the bags for about an hour to get them up to temperature.

Side note: I keep my tank at around 80-81 degrees because I researched a lot of forums and people said that was great for coral growth and that fish dig it. Would love to hear your opinion on the topic.

As I was floating the bags I went to Home Depot and got the equipment to make a shelf. I had to do it really fast so it was not the best job in the world, but I will try again tonight with more time.

After acclimation I put the zoas in distilled water for 3 min and put them in the tank.

Everything else I cut open and put them on the shelf.

Oh I almost forgot... As soon as I put in the green star coral... I saw two small white bristle worms crawl right out of the live rock into the sand... sigh... I might be a lost cause. ha!

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

pH probe sounds good. I'd monitor it and do another read in a few months and see if it drifts much. I typically calibrate once every 6 months but I feel a preemptive check around 1-2 months for you is warranted with a new probe that you have no history of usage about. Sorry for the over-cautiousness of the pH probe but I was an environmental scientist for 10 years before real estate and water sampling was kind of my thing.

For some reason I remember you mentioning you had a MH on the hood of the biocube. Are you only running power compact bulbs?

The Koralia should work for now until you upgrade.

For filtration, that should work for now. I'd look into modifying the middle back chamber to add chaetomorpha and a regufium light if possible. See this video for a quick example. I'm sure there are better videos and you can probably research other ways:

For livestock, everything looks good. Right now I wouldn't add too much more until everything stabilizes. Just a note, I'm not a fan of hermit crabs, I don't feel like they perform much of a function in a reef environment and there are better alternatives to hermit crabs. Just personal opinion though.

We'll get into your parameters in a bit. Can you note what kits you are using to determine your levels? Red Sea? API? Hanna?

Water husbandry looks good regarding water changes. How often do you change out your media and top off your water?

Temperature is fine, and I'll expound on that when I have a free moment.

Bristle worms are good/functional and free clean-up crew. I welcome them in a reef environment. I would use that as a good caution though as all frags come with some unanticipated hitchhikers... and nothing is more frustrating than getting one's you don't want.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

No MH light. I mispoke. :-/

I think that the refuge is a great idea. I need to check out the benefits of the cheato, but I have pretty much everything else that I would need for that.

Very interested to hear your two cents on hermit crabs. I am definitely not tied to them. I hate how they are always climbing and dragging their shells all over my corals. I also have seen this one tryign to kill my conch lately. I think I will take your advice and get rid of them.

I think I will change out the purigen once a month to a fresh bag, I change my filters every 2-3 days. The Chemi-pure probably 2-3 times a year.

I top off the water whenever it gets low, I check the level everyday. So there is always a little fresh ro/di water getting in to the tank every 2-3 days. One nice thing about the BioCube closed system is that i get very little evap. One sucky thing about it is heat, but the LEDs I just bought will help that.

I am using a bunch of API kits that came with the tank.

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

Alright, got some time while waiting for my wife to get out of class.

First off, API test kits aren't the best out there. I only trust them for a ballpark number and not my actual concentration. I like the red sea test kits for nitrates, magnesium, and calcium. I like the hanna checkers for phosphate and alkalinity. Here's where I differ from your potential objective in reefkeeping. Keeping a predominant SPS tank is much more work than most would like to do, and honestly, I think more than most should have to do to enjoy their tank. Consider me a glutton for punishment or maybe I just enjoy the thrill of the challenge.

Either case, I can tell you baseline what you can get away with so that the tank doesn't become a chore, or I can tell you how to maintain everything perfectly but that requires an investment in more equipment and a lot more testing and adding trace elements. I'll let you decide which route you want to go down.

What I can tell you for now is regarding your parameters, yes, your Calcium is low, needs to be around 420 ppm. At the level it is now, your sps and possibly LPS will suffer. Your magnesium is low as well, 1280 ppm is what most aim for. Most importantly though, we need to determine what your alkalinity is. In an SPS tank (my world), that is one of the most important parameters.

Jumping to salinity, it is fine but I usually keep mine at 1.026. Unless you suspect something dying in your tank, I wouldn't even bother with ammonia or nitrite. Both of those shouldn't be present in a cycled tank.

Nitrate looks good but the biggest problem is your phosphate and probably why some stuff you bought died. On the extreme side, phosphate concentrations for an SPS system hovers around 0.03 ppm. For most systems, you can generally run up to 0.15 ppm. Your concentration, if it's not a typo, is 0.5 ppm, which is a pretty toxic concentration. I would work on lowering it either via increased water changes or GFO (granular ferric oxide) which adsorbs the phosphate. Typically, you can use it in a reactor. Perhaps for your system, you can just run it in a media bag in your back compartment. Your chemipure elite typically has some in it I believe but I'm sure it's exhausted by now with your levels. Just a quick tidbit of info, a majority of phosphate enters the tank via fish food. Perhaps feed a bit less or increase your ability to export it. Also, your live rocks may have bound phosphate in it and may be leaching it back out. I don't know where you got your rock but if it is from a suspect source, then perhaps that is contributing as well. Either way, work on getting your phosphates down.

The ideal goal for the easy-to-maintain-system is to get all your levels close to natural seawater levels, and then only use water changes to maintain levels. Perhaps then, just tweak it 2-3x a year to line levels back up again if they drift from just using water changes.

Wife is here so I'll continue this later.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

I can't believe that you are an environmental scientist and a tech geek... that is perfect controlled reef keeping material... I scored bigger than I knew on this mentor thing. I am going to owe you a couple nice dinners and lots of beers after all this.

I think what I would like to do is start off easy. With the "baseline" as you say. Let's try and get me to just good saltwater that will keep softies and LPS corals are very happy and SPS corals are not dying--like my Jack-o-Lantern.Then, if I can hang in there like that for 3-6 months, then I would love for you to bring me to the dark side as I too am a glutton for punishment and control.

I will order whatever you think is best to test with and keep the most important ones in check. From what I can tell from my research I think that I should Temp, PH, Salinity, Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium.

The phosphate was definitely a mistype. It is less than .05ppm right now. It has remained very low with the Chemi-pure. Also, treated with Phosban when I first was cycling.

if I remember correctly my alkalinity was 2.4? but I will figure that out next. Don't have a test solution for that.

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

I'm always partial to beers.

Alright, the baseline plan it is! I think that's a good plan you have there.

For parameters, you will need to keep an eye on these:

-temp, pH, salinity

-phosphate, nitrate... and to a lesser degree, ammonia and nitrite if they ever need to be checked

-Ca, Mg, and alk

For a test kit, I would get your hands on a Red Sea Foundations Test Kit. It covers the "big 3", calcium, magnesium, and alkalinity.

For phosphate, I would get your hands on a Hanna Checker, very accurate and dummy proof for those like myself that can't really tell the difference between light blue and really light blue on those color scale charts. I would recommend the alkalinity checker down the line if you ever shift to a more SPS-focused system.

For the rest, I think the API test kits you have should suffice. Your Apex should give you temp and pH. For salinity, I'd pick up a refractometer if you don't have one already.

For your parameters, aim for NSW (natural seawater levels).

http://reefkeeping.c...5/rhf/index.php

To get the levels up to what you need them to, you can dose each component individually to get them there. You can order them from BRS. This will cover you for the big 3.

http://www.bulkreefs...age-bulk-1.html

You can use that to bring up your Ca and Mg levels. Once we assess your alkalinity levels, we can address them at that time. If I can think of anything else, I'll add but let's start with that.

I don't know if you are ever planning to get your own RO/DI system but you might want to look into one of those down the line. Saved me a lot of runs to the LFS but I did without one for 5 years while running my nanocube so not pivotal.

[FarmerTy]

(RANT ALERT- TY)

Alright, for my rant about hermit crabs. I consider them a nuisance that don't really perform much of a function. Sure, they disturb the substrate some by scuttling around and they pick at the live rock but don't really eat anything off it... maybe that is of some value.

They also kill snails, disturb all your corals, crawl all over the place, and leave those snail shells all over the tank. I honestly think someone very early in the hobby decided to put them in their tank and nobody has questioned it since. I prefer snails, chitons, limpets, sea urchins, emerald crabs, and mini-brittle stars.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

I see your point about hermit crabs. They are dead to me starting now. Although I think that they are fun to watch, they are clearly not worth it in a reef tank--I also find them to be very murderous. They are always stumbling around the tank trying to kill each other for a new home. Looks like they are going to find a new home, back to Hunter at the dome. I will look into all those other options. It seems like everything has a downside, but Sea Urchins look really cool.

The cool part is that everything I am buying are things that can be used in the future for my eventual upgrade.

BTW did you buy a salinity probe for your Apex? I have a refractor meter but I can never get it to dial in... Maybe I am doing something wrong.

The Apex dosing system "DOS" looks pretty cool and that should be out soon. I know one thing, I want to get all the things I need to never do water changes again and auto dos all these elements. Thanks for all the help today.

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

Urchins are great but for the size tank, I'd only look into a tuxedo urchin. Bear in mind there are drawbacks to them. They will pick up any frag you have if it isn't glued down well and walk all over the tank with them and they will munch on coralline algae when the opportunity rises.

They are however, one of the greatest, all purposes, eat anything not live rock, cleaners there is. They aren't discriminate... they'll mow down anything and leave just liverock in their path. One of my favorite cleaners for sure.

I did not bother with a salinity probe since I don't do water changes, so the chance for salinity to drift on me can only be caused by salt creep, and that is negligible.

The Apex dosing system looks very interesting. I had good success with peristaltic dosing with 2-part (the additives I linked you for ca, alk, and mg). Just for my size application, a CARX was cheaper in the long run and a lot less maintenance once dialed in.

Sorry, I never meant for it to come across as... buy all these things now Shawn.

I do think though that time is of the essence to avoid any potential livestock loss. If everything seems happy right now, then I'm sure next week is fine but for now, your low Ca troubles me, your low Mg is not an immediate concern, and not knowing your alk scares me the most. If you have the opportunity, see if aquadome can test your alk for you or perhaps someone on the forum. I'd be happy to test it for you too if you don't mind driving up north. I'm by the Domain.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

What do you mean you don't do water changes? Does that mean that you have a pump that takes a certain amount of water out and then it automatically refills with a top off system?

Is CARX a Calcium Reactor?

You know what might be helpful, do you think that I could come see your system so you could show me all these things. It would probably give me a way better idea if you have an hour or so?

Also, will a single calcium reactor take care of all three CA, MG, and Alkalinity? Or would you still have to dose the other two? It may be better for me to just buy on of those knowing that I will be able to use it for an upgrade in the future.

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

Shawn, I'd be happy to have you come by the house to check out my setup. Please keep in mind I recently upgraded early this year so it's not 100% there yet but I can walk you through the processes of my tank. I work from home and usually available, minus my appointments here and there. Evenings during the weekdays are sometimes hit or miss (mainly because I'm either showing a house or picking up my wife from grad school).

Regarding water changes, yes, I don't do any water changes. Here's my 125-gallon system that I upgraded from. It ran for 3 years and other than some initial water changes the first year when everything was balancing out, it ended up with the same water I started out with (generically speaking of course).

While it sounds like the ideal scenario, it does take quite a bit of time to get to that point and big volume systems do help a lot because of the great amount of dilution you get with those systems. I don't know if its ideal in a smaller tank but when you upgrade, perhaps so.

[FarmerTy]

(RANT ALERT - TY)

I just wanted to say that I don't really have a "system" for a successful reef tank. It's not about, get a skimmer, a CaRX, run GFO, run carbon, run biopellets, and presto, magically beautiful tank.

I try to tune myself to my tank. I aim to balance it biologically and work with what it gives me. I use technology to aid me in that when I can.

For my old tank, I changed my water every 1-2 months at the beginning... but then I noticed during that time, that all levels seem to get more stable the older the tank got. So, the time elapsed more and more between water changes... and then it eventually ended up with no water changes at all. Was that my goal? No, I just read what my system was giving me and based on the parameters I was measuring and the observations of my corals/fish, I felt that water changes were unnecessary at that point. My GFO was keeping the phosphates at bay, my biopellets were keeping the nitrates at bay, my skimmer removed organic materials before they had a chance to decay too much, my CaRX (yes, calcium reactor, sorry, please ask anytime I throw out an acronym, I'll be better about defining them) added all the necessary Ca, alk, and Mg back into my system. I dosed iodine on the occasion and also amino acids. I had three years of a beautiful tank without having to do water changes. Sometimes we just get lucky.

My new tank, the 215-gallon, I employed the same methods and got differing results. I'm still in the tuning process but it's definitely getting there. The key things that are different about this tank is that my nutrient removal process was too efficient in this one. Even during the transition, I lost a lot of coral due to a rookie mistake of not double checking my salinity. That, compounded with a nitrate spike, and a lot of my original colonies from the 125-gallon are just down small frags again. I've gotten to the point where I have actually removed all forms of chemical removal of nutrients... took my GFO offline, took my biopellets offline, and even stopped skimming for a week. Once everything looked happy again, I turned back on my skimmer and have a giant ball of chaeto in my refugium. Oddly, this is working. My nutrient levels are low, I don't have an algae problem, and everything is happy again.

If you would have told me when I had my 125-gallon tank, that I would have a 215-gallon tank and not run anything but a skimmer and chaeto, dump tons of food into the system each night (3-4 cubes of food)... I would have laughed at you. No way would that export enough nutrients... just a skimmer and chaeto? But it has. And it's just me trying to listen to my tank.

Sorry for the random soliloquy but I just wanted to illuminate my thoughts on reefkeeping and how it has been successful for me.

Here's an older video of my 215-gallon to give you an idea of what I have now. Again, a work in progress but I feel like I am only a couple more months away from cruise control again.

Oh, interesting bit of trivia, in the 125-gallon tank, every coral I have in that tank was grown from a 1-2" frag or smaller. Same for the zoas/palys, every one in there was from a frag of less than 7 polyps to start out with. I enjoy the process of growing huge colonies from humble beginnings.

In my 215-gallon, I have pushed that aside and have opened it up to obtaining more colony-sized pieces if the opportunity arises. It's hard to look at the tank without huge colonies of SPS after being spoiled with the old system.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

Those are beautiful tanks, Ty.

And VERY interesting insights on Reef Keeping. I always thought that the only way to keep up with the nitrogen cycle was to do water changes. I have heard of huge aquaponics systems that can function like this, but never though a fish tank could keep enough nitrate removing organisms/plants to keep up with the feeding/bioload of the living things in the aquarium. At least I know that is true for freshwater, even in a heavily planted tank there is almost no way unless you have almost no fish and are dosing CO2. On the other hand, one thing that I am noticing from the 250 video is that your bioload looks very low--most 250 to 300s I have seen online have 3 times as many fish packed into it I have also seen people who drip water out of the tank into a drain and then also drip water into the tank at the same rate or with a float switch so that there is always fresh water in the system and it is always topped off and you are always getting rid of some of the nitrates that way as well. Very interesting stuff.

Also, I have thought so far that if you have a huge tank it is easier to keep the water parameters in check, but that you will still need all of the equipment--makes perfect sense, but it just doesn't seem to be how I see all these builds start ya know? Seems like they buy everything under the sun

One question that you didn't answer above, will a calcium reactor take care of alkalinity and calcium? What do you do for Magnesium?

On another topic, I love the corals and inverts as much as all the fish. So, I too will enjoy growing out colonies like you do I think. I have images in my head of a large rock covered in jack-o-lantern....

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

Larger systems definitely make it easier to keep things stable. This is coming from a guy who currently has about 250 gallons of tankwater to stabilize but ran a 12-gallon nanocube for 5 years with no incidents. That nanocube was a whole lot of work!

I went with a minimal aquascape in that 215-gallon. I got tired of the rock wall look... no matter how I dressed it up, it was still a wall of rock. There will be more livestock additions but as you've heard a million times by now... taking it slow. Each large fish I add really does impact the balance of my system.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

Just so you are up to date on where I am going:

· Lighting: LEDs are on the way. Steve's LEDs had rave reviews and it is enough light to burn out everything in tank at full power, so I am excited to finally have the light I need. I ended up going with the 12000k. I just think it looks better, I blue light look just doesn't appeal to me. It isn't what I think of when I think of reefs... i dunno. This will be a fun project.

· Flow: RW-4 is on the way, but sending from China along with the cords. I have seen a bunch of videos on line of people doing it themselves and it looks pretty straightforward so I am going to give it a try. No one is buying my 6205s on the forums, I will probably need to take them back or reduce the price.

· Refuge: I am going to start working on this tonight. Trying to figure out a lighting solution and I need to actually get the macro algae. I would really love to get some Cheato and some Dragon's breath. Really pretty stuff. I am thinking of growing it my hospital tank as well, which will slowly eat the copper out of the water as well, which is nice for the long term health of the fish living in their permanently. One thing I cant figure out is if the Macro will absorb the copper and be poisonous to a tang if it eats it.

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

Yes, the CaRX will add a balanced addition of Ca and Alk and to some degree, Mg, depending which type of media you use. You can always add Mg supplemental media to your CaRX if you keep seeing your Mg levels deplete and it'll help supplement as well. You can also dose Mg and can get it in powder form ready to mix from the link I sent you before for the BRS foundation elements. If you were planning to invest in a CaRX (which for now, I don't see the need for it), understand you'll be dropping close to $400-$500 on the whole setup.

For now, I think simple water changes would do you just fine and worry about the CaRX later when you upgrade. Main reason is whatever you upgrade to, the CaRX size you would need on that will probably be way too much for your biocube you have currently. It may nuke your tank since it's so overpowered and running underpowered I think is just asking for trouble. Now, a peristaltic doser setup (such as the Apex version or a generic one) would work well with your current tank and could also handle the demands of a larger tank. It would be just a bit more work when it comes to the larger tank as you will have to mix the solutions for refill more often than just replacing the media in the CaRX. It will also be more expensive too for the solutions versus the CaRX media.

Well I'm glad all the equipment is on its way. I won't be too much help with the setup of your lighting but you seem fully capable in the tech department. You are more than welcome to have some of my Chaeto for your refugium... it's got a bunch of critters in it and may help jumpstart some of your biodiversity as well. The macro will absorb the copper... in normal situations, I wouldn't worry about the copper that macro absorbs, as that is normal. But the concentrations in a hospital tank, I wouldn't risk it and just harvest and throw it away. Plus, most tangs don't find chaeto palatable and believe it or not, blue hippos, while they eat algae, prefer more of a meat-based diet than a majority of the other types of tangs. BTW, for the tang, I give it 1.5-2 years max before you need a bigger tank for the hippo. The tang police would be all over you in other forums. Haha.

[FarmerTy]

(RANT ALERT -TY)

The giant builds you and I mostly run across have some spectacular budgets. I think it's just a limited-time distraction for some people who have a little extra money and time and buy up thousands of dollars worth of equipment, soup up their tank, and then buy up all these amazing livestock and premium corals, just to not know how to maintain it, get a couple of good FTS before the whole thing comes crashing down and you never hear from them again. It's like responsible vs irresponsible landscaping to me. You can jam all the pretty plants/flowers into an area, take a picture for a magazine and it looks amazing... then 3 months down the line everything is either overgrown or dying because of the lack of thought for their needs. I'm babbling now though.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(SHAWN)

I think that this rant above makes a lot of sense to me. People with these giant builds just want to throw money at the problem instead of actually build the system out and figure out what makes sense for the system itself. And then it dies. Same thing happens when you are a a beginner who cannot stop buying things that are on the bioload--then things start dying or get sick. Take it slow and let the tank tell you what it needs as you build it.

[FarmerTy]

(SHAWN)

I understand what you are saying about the carx as well. There is a tunze 9002 that fits in the back sump nicely, but I am not sure that I need one and will instead hold off and get things stable and then see what the tank needs

I went to the dome and got a macro mix today and flopped it in the refuge with an LED light... Definitely not sophisticated, but it is a good start.

Lastly, on the Tang... I am giving myself 18 months with this tank and then I am going to start the build of a lifetime... With a little bit of your guidance I think. And by build of a lifetime I mean a bigger tank....

[FarmerTy]

(TY)

Be careful of what types of macro is in it. Certain types such as halimeda are calcareous and can uptake your calcium and alk and take it away from your corals usage... also feather caulerpa can go sexual on you and release a bunch of spores into your system and basically cause a nightmarish situation. Ulva and chaeto are the only two allowed in my tank but I know I'm being a little more stringent than most folks. Don't worry about sophistication with the refugium... my old one on my nanocube was just a clip-on PC bulb leaning against the glass. Worked for 5 years like that.

Good thoughts on the CaRX and skimmer. Let's see what your tank tells you.

So 18 months and you'll officially be graduated from newbie reefer university then! Your 2nd tank is always more fun. You have a good idea of what you want to do with the next tank by then and it's less of the blind searching around and more of making a dream come true.

[ShawnKoto]

Ty, thanks for putting all of our back and forth in there. I can't believe how many questions that you have already answered.

I have been doing some research and I am definitely going to get in on the BRS order, and if you can pick it up for me that would be great. One thing that I was going to ask though is that Kalkwasser seems to be another option for Ca/Alk. What are your thoughts on it? I just paid Jim for the 2-part anyway, but I am just curious,

I took pictures this morning of the Macros that I have in there:

Cheato:

Some Unidentified Brown Stuff:

Some sort of red stuff (maybe Scinaia hormoides?)

And here is a top down pic of the refuge. I put a LED lamp that I had lying around on top of a little grate and I think it is going to work nicely:

I have tried to Google them to ensure that I am not ruining my tank You happen to know what they are off the top?

Another lesson today... Don't ever put anything in your tank before you identify it and understand the effect it will have on your system.

[FarmerTy]

You're telling me Shawn! I've answered all the questions and then formatted them again to be put in this thread!

Kalkwasser is definitely an option, especially for your size tank and bioload. While I only used it briefly, it is a good way to supplement your usage of Ca and alk. I was mainly having you pick up the BRS 2-part so that you can tweak your current levels instead of using it as a dosing regiment. You will be able to get your Ca, alk, and Mg in line to NSW levels.

I still believe that regular water changes should be able to handle your Ca and alk needs for now since your "stony" bioload is very low. Your salt mix should be able to supplement that easily I would imagine.

When we see the need to supplement, that's when we can look into kalkwasser, 2-part dosing, or even a CaRX.

I'm no macro expert but I don't see a problem with any of those macros. I can't really tell what type of lamp you are using for the refugium. Does the color of the bulb look more white or yellow to you? Ideally, macros love the yellower light <10k spectrum. You will get much better growth with that. Also, I ran my original center chamber refugium in my nanocube originally with a light on top but found it was much more effective when I actually cut the vinyl plastic off the back of the middle chamber and put the light back there to illuminate the entire middle chamber from top to bottom. I was pulling out chaeto with each 2-week water change. It grew very fast!

[FarmerTy]

(RANT WARNING!)

While adding all of our previous back-and-forth in the build thread, I realized I didn't ever get back to your question on the temperature of the tank. My thoughts are this. The average temperature range I see in most tanks are from 77-83 degrees. I'm not going to go back and pull up the research articles I read prior but if I remember right, most corals begin to lose their ability to regulate their systems around 86 degrees, obviously depending on the species.

I think the majority aim to keep their tanks around 78 degrees.

Now, with a higher temperature, you also get higher metabolisms, not only in your fish but in your corals too. Typically when you have higher temperatures in a tank environment, you're probably also exposing the tank to higher levels or a longer duration of light. For me, I like to think that the higher metabolisms (increase of ingestion/processing of food, increase in growth, increase in wastes) can coincide with the higher levels/duration of light (more food supplied by zooxanthallae to the corals) will altogether increase growth rates of the corals. This applies to the fish as well. The increase in temperature will increase their metabolisms and as long as they are appropriately fed, will increase their growth rates.

There are downsides to a higher temperature as well. There is a tendency to also increase the amount of nuisance algae in a system as they thrive in the warmer waters. There is also the dangerous tip-toeing of getting too close to a dangerously high temperature... basically you have less time/room for error when things go awry and your system starts to heat up. Say for instance, the AC goes down in your house... if your tank temp is sitting at 83 already... doesn't take that much more to start having issues. If you were at 78, you've got a little more time to react. Also, less oxygen can dissolve into the water at the higher temperatures.

For me, I run my tank in the range of 80-83 degrees Fahrenheit. I've run it this way for 4 years now. I also run MHs and that will increase the temperature greatly in my tank. For me, it wasn't the advantages of running a warmer tank that was the deciding factor for why I run warmer. For me, it was about not fighting my system too much. If the ambient temperature hovers around 80-83, why fight it if it isn't causing any issues? Why chill it or cool it all the time with a fan? The amount of net energy to change the temperature of 250 gallons each day will start to add up. So, instead of fighting it, I aimed to regulate it. I kept the temperature around 80-83, because that's where it hovered naturally anyways, and then regulated it towards the upper-end by having cooling fans come on when it reaches a certain temperature and turn off the lights if it went beyond 83 degrees. Again, my APEX is to thank for the ability to do that.

In the winter, I often allow my tank temperature to drift a bit lower to 78-81, again, aiming to not fight the actual homeostatic temperature that it obtains during this time. Again, same concept except in reverse, I allow it to maintain a slightly lower temp than usual, but regulate it on the lower end and turn on the heater when it creeps below 78.

Anyways, hope gives you something to think about regarding your tank temperature.