Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Decided to make this a separate thread – it started out at http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/32264-paly-pruning/#entry251826 Ty will be posting test results on this thread in hopes that this can help someone out in the future. In my nearly 6 years of reef keeping, I never had a tank crash… As it is now, there is no found reason for the crash – the tank will be a year old in October, and some of the coral/rock came from my smaller system which was 4 years old and thriving. First thing I noticed on Saturday was the yellow polyp colony staying closed, everything else was fine…so I did a 3 gallon water change. On Sunday, all the zoas had closed so I added some marine buffer to bring the ph up which was testing at 7.8. I added the marine buffer as directed, slowly over two hours. Did another water change (7 gallons). At this point, two branching montis started to bleach out and die. One monti – a small square one, is still ok. Inhabitants: GSP Several fuzzy mushrooms and green mushrooms 2 large bright green toadstools 3 acan colonies fungia xenia devil’s breath macro anemone large leather coral and 3-4 babies 4 zoa colonies yellow polyps texas trash bubble coral superman rhodactis goni mille frogspawn Clownfish pair Hawkfish Melanarus Wrasse Blenny baby Maxima All the mushrooms are gone. The superman was actually looking better this morning. Frogspawn is gone. Part of the Texas Trash colony has melted away – but some of it is doing great! All zoas have remained closed. Xenia is starting to melt away. Bubble coral may be going too. Anemone has moved to two different locations since this started, but seems to be ok. All leather/toadstool coral is unaffected. Acans may pull through – I sucked off a white coating from them during a water change. Will post before and after shots of the tank later on… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Oh wow, really sorry to hear this Any chance a softie was releasing toxins? (I don't know much about this, just thought it might be a possibility) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 You know, I hadn't thought about that. About two weeks ago, my nem moved underneath the large toadstools, but they were still opening and happy, so I didn't think it was an issue... The nem has since moved right next to a smaller leather coral... I'm running fresh carbon and skimming really heavy at the moment, but the tank smells like death. Wonder if that's it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Oh man... I am so sorry to hear this. It has to be devastating. I can't help but have the first thought be back to what you were discussing with trying to remove some of those palys from the rock work in your tank. Those Texas Trash and Yellow Colonial Palys both pack a whollup in paly toxins. Did you mess with them at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Nope not at all, I was going to, but these problems started Saturday. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOceanTraveler Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 So sorry to for you. Thanks for sharing so we can learn. My tank sounds almost exactly like yours, so when you are ready I can give you free quite a few frags from what you listed above. Hit me up and hope it gets past this soon. I fight with my texas trash Polly's cuz I didn't know better, only killing a few at a time and try to use baster to get some of the slime. But, I have killed quite a few at one time before " perfecting" the process. I will be pulling the rock from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Any chance you might have had a cucumber or something of that nature that died and caused a poisoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Before: Hour ago: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 No cucumber, bare bottom tank, 'cept for the little dish of sand that I had the baby clam in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I'm sure you already checked for a temperature hike.. Just going through scenarios I've heard and read. Sorry if I'm being rodundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 No worries Dean, I appreciate all the ideas, I've been racking my brain. I've got a seneye monitoring system, temp is steady between 77.5-79.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The results are in: PO4 - 0.12 ppm (Hanna Phosphorus meter) - little high, perhaps even higher before water changes where conducted to alleviate tank conditionsNO3 - 0.50-0.75 ppm (Red Sea) - goodAlk - 8.8 dKh (Hanna alk meter) - goodCa - 375 ppm (Red Sea) - low, NSW around 420 ppm, shouldn't really cause many issues until it gets below 360 ppmMg - 1,320 ppm (Red Sea) - goodSal - 1.026 (Milwaukee digital seawater refractometer) - good pH - 7.73 (Apex pH probe) - low for not running a CaRX, if this is the lower side of the swing, then its fine Temp - 79.5 (Apex temp probe) - good So, the only thing that really stands out to me may be a possible PO4 spike while trying to dose the tank with phyto to feed the clam. I read 0.12 ppm, which isn't terrible but not all that great either, but who knows what it was before the water changes were conducted. Mixed reef tanks have the ability to spiral out of control when one species is ticked and dies, as it leads to possible chemical warfare and the melting of other species as they die. For instance, the euphyllias started dying because of the high phosphate, which in turn ticked off the other corals, then the leathers start releasing terpenoids, then the trash palys start dying, and releasing palytoxins... etc. You get the point I'm trying to make. I would continue to run carbon, maybe more so than you have going right now Elizzy, to remove any chemical warfare that may be going on right now. I know I already advised you to remove the melting texas trash palys, as they can only be hurting the tank right now as they are melting away and releasing who knows how much toxins. Water changes are always going to be your best friend and maybe down the line, look at possibly running GFO to help lower your phosphates. Just use it in moderation at first as it can strip phosphates very quickly and that can also be a detriment to your system. If you don't have a reactor, you can borrow one of mine for the GFO until you get one ordered. It's just a standard TLF 150 reactor but I'm not 100% sure if it leaks or not since I always use it in the sump. I have GFO too and you can use it as long as you replace what you use. As things are getting better, I'd look to increase your calcium a bit to somewhere near the 420 ppm range. Every other parameter looks great but hopefully that rules out some of those as issues. If it's not the phosphates, then I would agree with most others as it may be some type of chemical or metals contamination, with which water changes will always help and for the metals, perhaps a poly-filter or curprisorb. I have just a little cuprisorb left over if you want to try to run that. Again, same as the GFO, just replace what you use would be sufficient for me. I'll see if I can revive that clam of yours and whenever your tank is ready, I'll replace that ORA Jeremy's monti frag you lost. Hopefully your tank turns around real quick! Cheers, -Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The clam opened up in the tank. It looks a little rough but I feel like it'll make it. Sent via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Yay!!! Thank you so much for all your help, I'll be in touch! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Elizzy, To further answer your question about stray voltage that jestep was kind enough to comment on in the previous thread. GFCIs don't always function correctly. They should trip at 12v and a small amperage. If you have stray voltage going into your to tank lets say a gfci that isn't working properly and your getting 14v and a couple milli amps that can be enough to piss a coral off and cause it to release toxins and cause a chain event. It may not even kill the coral that went to releasing toxins but create a chemical warfare problem. It may not even be enough voltage your you to feel but your corals can. I know I have about 3v from my skimmer at all times leaking into my tank and this is status quo but I check periodically for voltage. It's easy to check for and once you rule it out it leaves you with the P04 as the possible culprit. Either way I think it's safe to say that you had a bad chain reactor of toxins at this point. As always if there is anything you need just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Sorry to read about your loss. For what it's worth my experience phosphates at your levels shouldn't have any adverse effects on your animals (personally I wouldn't bother to try lowering them). Every species you have listed I've seen happy with much higher levels. Like Ty said water changes and carbon are your friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Running a metric ton of carbon and did a 10 gallon water change with pre-made petco water. Also, removed rock with dying Texas Trash. @Reburn - if my tank doesn't sort itself out by this weekend, I'd like to borrow you and your voltage meter Hope: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 Update -- well the water changes and running carbon have helped a lot - there's no longer a foul odor coming from the tank. All of the zoas pulled through, even though I thought they were goners. Acans pulled through too - they were coated with a white film - now they're not!! My only concerns now are with my bubble coral and nem. The nem is leaving a slime trail - see photo. I'm still running carbon and will continue to -- will do another water change tomorrow with new salt. I'm somewhat convinced I may have a bad bucket of salt, so I won't be using it anymore. Today (4 days later): Nem: Bubble coral: Strangely - this is the best I've ever seen this monti looking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 That's a beautiful tank I'm glad to hear things are pulling through for you. Great job on the recovery! BTW what is the bright red coral in the center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 That's a beautiful tank I'm glad to hear things are pulling through for you. Great job on the recovery! BTW what is the bright red coral in the center? Thank you!! That's Dragon's Breath macro, pretty indestructible, survives a nuclear holocaust - if you'd like some, let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Glad to hear things are coming back to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 That FTS shot looks much better than I feared. Your vigilance and quick response really paid off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 This morning the nem disappeared.., I searched high & low. Is it possible for them to just melt away? No ammonia yet-- I'm assuming there would be some if it died, right? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 They can just melt away sadly or sometimes retreat deep into the rocks to die. You might get a small ammonia-nitrite-nitrate spike from its death if it truly died. Hopefully it's just retreating to recover. Sent via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizzy Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 Well I can't seem to catch a break...The beautiful monti plate that made it through the crash started bleaching out today, then I found a monti-eating nudibranch right beneath it... I dip all corals...but I guess there were eggs on something. Because of how quickly the rest of my other montis went, I covered the infected area with krazy glue gel. Does anyone know how long it takes a monti-eating nudibranch to starve? This is my last piece of monti - I figure if it goes, I'll wait awhile...I read 6 months to a year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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