FarmerTy Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I don't have a ton to add right now but Reburn's assessment seems on point. Sorry for your losses Jim. I would do what you've been doing, cut and try to save what you can. Even if you can rescue a little nub, it might just be enough to not lose the piece entirely. I'll take a more thorough look at the whole picture later and see if anything jumps out at me. Pics of the tank currently might help if you get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I don't have a ton to add right now but Mark the tape, Alert the press, contact Mframe, we have to get Ty to a hospital he must be sick or something, don't worry buddy we'll get some help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Thanks Jeeper, I'll try to get some pix up here. Reburn - I use a CO2 scrubber, it raises my pH by about .15, I had just changed the media before I went away for the long weekend so a secondary lesson I learned is not to change the media when the house is going to be empty, or maybe even take it offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Here are a few pix. FTS: Red Table acro Various acros (cali tort, Minh's 98, hawkins, rainbow nasuta) Various others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Jim, just curious about a statement you made. You said that you are STN'ING at the tips of your corals? Or is it mainly at the base? Do you have any pictures of the affected pieces? Sent via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 It was the tips except on one. They are gone so I don't have pix. Maybe it was actually RTN since they went so fast, in about two to 3 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Interesting. I'm glad you clarified because that does make a difference as to where they started to loose flesh and how fast it happened. With alk-related STN, I've always observed it at the base of the corals if there was a rapid decrease in alk levels. If it was a rapid increase in levels, I'd typically see alk burn on the tips of acros (white tips). In your instance, you alk dropped but to be honest, that isn't much of a drop for me to warrant it killing off so much of your acros and that quickly. As for pH, I've never had an issue with a coral that I can directly point to a rise/drop in pH that caused it. Not that it doesn't happen, but it would have to be a pretty big swing I would imagine. My daily swings are 0.3 for pH and on occasion when I dose alk, it'll jump 0.6-0.8 with ill effect. If your GFO has been steady this whole time and nothing has died, I would honestly rule out your GFO usage as a cause. I would continue your regiment, and honestly, maybe even increase it until you don't see hair algae anymore. While there may be a million theories as to what happened, I honestly think perhaps some of your cleanup crew died off while you were gone and you got an ammonia/nitrite spike. SPS are super sensitive to those spikes and my guess is ammonia spiked high from a couple of snail/crab deaths and it was enough to trigger RTN from your acros. Then the snowball effect happened and when one started to die, it sent of chemical signals that triggered a couple of others to go with it. Sadly, by this time, most of the ammonia and nitrite would have been converted to nitrate so it'll be hard to test and prove that but it might have spiked enough to cause issues before being converted to nitrate. Do you notice more algal growth since you got back? Perhaps the increased nitrate from the ammonia spike may be spurring more algal growth? I can't explain the rise in pH other than like you said, nobody in the house to exhale CO2... but I've honestly never observed that with my system and I used to travel a ton... sometimes for weeks at a time. I do agree with Reburn that perhaps lowering your lights a bit may help the fight against nuisance algae but may also help your SPS recover a bit and to test the theory of being too bright. A par meter would aid greatly in helping diagnose this and rule out the lights as a potential cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The problem with measuring the kessils is the par readings are greatly skewed. You really need to convert to par by measuring umols. I have tried to measure with a par meter and got 3000 at the light and 200 at 1" below the water. Esacjack and I have had many conversations about how using just par readings for a kessil is almost useless because of the amount of blue and violet in the LED array. But measuring umols and then converting is a bit better for actually figuring out the par level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'll leave that to you LED guys to have fun with. Perhaps get a poll from a larger thread of what par readings they run their kessils at for SPS and just run it in line with theirs, with a little acclimation of course. At least that way, you know at what success others are having with the same lights and even though your actual par numbers will be off, they will be in line with others that have run it successfully. Sent via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Jim and I have a plan to check or umols readings next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Ty - thanks for taking the time to review and comment. At this point what I am seeing is that all the corals that showed any signs are dead. No other corals showing new signs. Yesterday I fed earlier in the day than normal and I think saw aggressive feeding response from several of the acros. I put Rod's in and then a few minutes later I put nutri-cell in. After the Rod's several of the acros had extended tentacles like little threads and it seems that after the nutri-cell the food got captured in tentacles + mucus. Later there was no sign of mucus or tentacles. I've never fed in the daytime before so is this what it looks like when acros are feeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No problem Jim. I say, if the damage is done and everything else is happy and not STN'ing, continue what you're doing and see what comes of your lighting tests with Reburn. I still think attack the nutrient issue... GHA wouldn't be there if there wasn't one. I'm reading zero phosphates too but I've seen an increase in filamentous algae in my tank so I am planning to put my GFO back online. I want to remove the macro algae bias on my phosphate readings so I can manage my levels without their interference. I've never had LEDs but I've honestly never killed any SPS with too much light. I've bleached out a ton while testing them in par values from 400-800 par, but none ever died from it. I just returned them to their preferred par levels and within 2 weeks to a month they started regaining their normal coloration. I've actually left some that were completely bleached in the higher par levels and eventually they adjusted. The mesenterial filaments that SPS reach out during times of stress and feeding I think are still debated regarding their function. I know Jamie Craggs was studying the intentional spawning of acropora colonies and would feed the tanks until they were cloudy... where he witnessed the mesenterial filaments everytime and suggested they were for feeding. I don't particularly find that conclusive as I have seen the same filaments during times of stress. There is a chance that the filaments may be extending during feeding not due to a feeding response but perhaps a stressor from the higher amount of food in the tank (i.e. higher jump in phosphates or some irritant in the food)... but enough of a chance, if however slight, that it could not be a feeding response. I only mention to be thorough. I posted a video myself of when I fed my tank and you can see the mesenterial filaments of an SPS colony I have. They typically have nemotocysts on them and aim to sting... whether its to sting and digest like the hydnophora, to capture prey like perhaps the SPS colony I filmed, or as a stressor response to a condition... I don't really know. Anyways, I'm rambling. I do see more polyp extension at night/day when the lights are out as they typically tend to feed during those times in their natural environment when the zooplankton population is most active. I tend to not feed them during that time though because of a research article I read about the limiting effect on calcification when acroporas feed during the night. I think it had something more to do with the energy expenditure for the acros to open the polyps and actively feed at night taking away from the energy used for the precipitation of calcium and other elements to build their stony skeletons. Basically, it showed that feeding at night took away time/energy it could have used to build its stony skeleton. I digress again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yesterday I repeated the Rod's followed 10 minutes later with nutri-cell and 5 minutes after that with aminos. Time: 6PM. Sump pump off, circulation pumps still on. 5 of my acros extended mesenterial filaments within 5 minutes of the rods, kept them out during the nutri-cell and slowly became mucus coated. Filaments ranged from 1/4" to 3/4" depending on coral. Left pump off for 15 minutes. After turning pump back on the filaments were slowly withdrawn. I am hoping this is a good sign, not a negative reaction to the feeding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I would say it's a good thing. A lot of mine do the same thing when I feed. I have noticed not all do it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Got around to testing for stray voltages/current. My procedure was this: 1) remove grounding probe from tank 2) set meter for AC voltage 3) measure between sump water and ground probe: 0.1 VAC 4) set meter to DC current 5) measure between sump water and ground probe: 0.1 uAmp 6) trip GFCI 7) remeasure AC voltage: 0.0 VAC 8) remeasure DC current: 0.0 uAMP Should I be worried? Seems pretty minimal to me ... For now, I have left the ground probe out of the tank. Wondering if I will see any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It does seem pretty minimal but I am not qualified enough to have an opinion here on electrical matters. FWIW, I have never run a grounding probe as I have fear of "completing the loop". I have definitely felt a current when a pump has gone bad and stuck my hand in the water while simultaneously standing on some water on the floor. Nothing that'll give me a new hairstyle or anything but could definitely feel the current on my finger tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I am not concerned at those levels. A tenth of a micro amp could almost be static. I agree with Ty about completing the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Finally measured a little nitrate: 0.05 mg/L Noticing microscopic daily color improvements with reduced lighting and higher nutrients. Haven't lost anything in two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Decided it would be good to capture a year end FTS. All the fish were hiding. Tank is 10.5 months old now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Colors are looking much much improved. Setosa looks like it's grown too. Looks like your on the right track and that the KZ nano package is working well for you. Where did you end up on your lights. I ended up at 30% intensity and 60% color. Now about that shrimp.........lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I am at 40% intensity and 60% color on the lights, but mine are farther from the water than yours. The setosa is looking very happy, good encrusting and nice polyp extension. One of my favorites now! And the Jack O Lantern appears to be back on track too, so it won't be too long before I can frag it. Everything is much happier, but I think there is still plenty of room for improvement. Turned off the GFO yesterday so hoping PO4 will increase. I am gonna trap those shrimp real soon! As soon as I move my pink streaked wrasse out of the QT tank so I can have somewhere to hold them. Now, I'm gonna be good for new years and resist ordering this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Looks good there Jim. I like the distribution of color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Thanks Ty, I did actually try to distribute the colors. Of course the brown ones don't count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 What brown Jim? I don't even see brown... I've trained my eyes accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 You should order that pack. Self control is for wusses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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