+Capt. Obvious Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Where in round rock are you located? (I too am in round rock, and misery loves company, or so I hear) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Also here's an updated stock list: scopas tang sailfin tang blue hippo tang yellow tang flame or bicolor angel orchid dottyback or magenta pseudochromis pajama cardinal a pair of clownfish honey damsel green clown goby watchman goby firefish goby blennies six line wrasse whip fin fairy wrasse I'm happy that you are planning this tank as detailed as you are. One thing I would suggest based on my experience is in regards to your fish selections. I've had great success keeping 3 tangs in tanks 150+ gallons and some of the ones you have chosen are very nice fish. I probably wouldn't put 4 in the tank, especially if you are new. The sailfin and the blue hippo get pretty large and they eat quite a lot. I would avoid the damsels and get green, blue/green or atlantic blue chromis instead. Another option is to get anthias, but they're expensive. Lastly your firefish, wrasses, blennies and gobies are all going to eat about the same food. IMO smaller fish are harder to feed in large tanks with heavy current. Mine have always eaten a fair amount of pods and leftovers, but sometimes get thin and spot feeding is required. The flame angel and orchid / magenta can become territorial and will bother your more docile firefish and clown goby. I've also seen them put clowns in the corner if they dont have a host. Definately add the flame and orchid last if you add them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Thanks for all the info guys.. it's a lot to take in and I'll update you when I figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibnzmonkey Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Do you NEED a skimmer? No, not really. Is it nice to have? Absolutely. I'm following along with your build, it seems like a great start so far! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 So, my other half vetoed this build as too expensive so I'm working in a nano reef in a 29 gallon. I'll start a new thread tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Too bad. But good luck on you cube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 The build is back on. Got a really good deal on some live rock and sand from bio so the other half can't fuss. Muahaha... thinking fowlr now. I want a puffer or two, an angel, a fu manchu lion and a trigger. Any suggestions? Going to try it with gsp and see how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Great news. Looking forward to seeing the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesreyn Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I'm in the skimmer isn't necessary crowd. I have been in the hobby for around 8-10 years so I am speaking on my own experience. I have many SPS and I don't have a skimmer. Haven't done a water change in about 6 months either. There are no equipment "experts" on the forums, only people with their own opinions. I tend to value posts from people like Timfish and Subsea because they are speaking from decades of first hand experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I just cleaned my skimmer last night. When you come to get the sand I'll show you what's been pulled out in just 2 days. It's insane the stuff that's in the water. I've done skimmer less and it works but I find it nicer with a skimmer. I know back 10-15 years ago in the family 180 saltwater that my brothers and I helped my mom maintain we didn't have a skimmer but we did have a lot of macro and rock/sand. I just like a minimalist look now so by removing a lot of rock from the dt I add what I can to the sump but the skimmer picks up the remaining. Also takes a lot less room than a macro bed to filter out what's needed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 I fully intend on running a skimmer. So let's move along. I was wondering what fish you guys would stock along the lines of the ones I am interested in and what you think about having gsp in the tank with non reef safe fish like puffers, triggers, and angels. Also what inverts if any I can have with these fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) I just cleaned my skimmer last night. When you come to get the sand I'll show you what's been pulled out in just 2 days. It's insane the stuff that's in the water. I've done skimmer less and it works but I find it nicer with a skimmer. I know back 10-15 years ago in the family 180 saltwater that my brothers and I helped my mom maintain we didn't have a skimmer but we did have a lot of macro and rock/sand. I just like a minimalist look now so by removing a lot of rock from the dt I add what I can to the sump but the skimmer picks up the remaining. Also takes a lot less room than a macro bed to filter out what's needed. i think the skimmer falls into a "more than one way to skin a cat" category. There beautiful tanks on this site run by people with all natural filtration and people with beautiful tanks with some mechanical filtration, and others with beautiful tanks with what i would call extreme filtration (zeofit systems come to mind). are any of these wrong? no. are any of them right? i would say they, all of them, it just depends on what works for you. personally, i am going to try skimmerless. i like the look of the macro algae and other natural filtration systems and i find it fascinating that you can basically get a life form that will eat whatever poop you want to pull out. it also sounds to me like it would be more self-sustaining in the long term with fewer pieces of equipment that need to be babysat, go wrong, and wear out. although, i do think that it may be harder to set up and initially get that balance of nature. i have heard of, and seen, a natural system that was able to be regularly left alone for weeks at a time with no problems. but if you don't like the look, have the space for, or for any other reason don't have the natural filtration strong enough to keep up, then you have to add mechanical filters to keep up with it. if you like the idea of playing with all the latest gadgets, then there are plenty out there that will offer all levels of filtration that will run a great clean tank. so, go for that if it is your thing. bottom line, with so many people on here running successful tanks with all levels of filtration, you should have plenty of resources to help with what you want to do. maybe in a few years i can be one of these sources, but you will find them on here. and don't listen to the haters in the other camp that are telling you your system is wrong. it's not. if you think your tank is fun and pretty and things are alive and healthy, your system is right. oops, i was typing this when you said you were done with this discussion. sorry. Edited May 28, 2013 by Planeden 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I fully intend on running a skimmer. So let's move along. I was wondering what fish you guys would stock along the lines of the ones I am interested in and what you think about having gsp in the tank with non reef safe fish like puffers, triggers, and angels. Also what inverts if any I can have with these fish. Keeping GSP only requires that you want it to take over your tank. Fish wont mess with it IME. As far as inverts with puffers and triggers goes, I think you'll wind up losing all the inverts eventually. I think Michael Scott's book on fish suggests adding inverts first for best chances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo662 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I'll donate a rock with GSP on it when you're tank is ready. James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The build is back on. Got a really good deal on some live rock and sand from bio so the other half can't fuss. Muahaha... thinking fowlr now. I want a puffer or two, an angel, a fu manchu lion and a trigger. Any suggestions? Going to try it with gsp and see how it goes. IMO a Fu Manchu Lion is not a good fit with triggers and puffers. They are reef ambush hunters and they will hang out in your rock all day. You'll have to stick or hand feed them silvers, which is almost impossible with a trigger and a puffer in there. A Volitan Lion might be a better pick if you want one. Puffers and triggers are pretty taxing on the bio load because they make a mess of their meals. They're also aggressive so I would get them small and get them all at the same time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Will triggers try to kill the lion?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 So what about nixing the triggers and going with one sharp nose small puffer? With a flame angel, some tangs and a few smaller fish? Or I could go back to original build by nixing the puffer and finding a similarly interesting reef safe fish. I like filefish, but I know most species arent reef safe and those that are are like dwarf angels "hit or miss". I have no problem letting gsp take over a fowlr tank as long as it doesn't keep the live rock from doing it's job. Could some of you post what you have in your similarly sized tanks or at least your favorite fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 After lots more research and thought, I'm staying with the reef. My little 29 is too much fun and I find myself watching the corals as much as the fish. BUT, I have gone back over my stock list with all your comments in mind and would like opinions on the new list.. here we go... Lavender tube sponge Orange fan sponge green star polyps On their very own little island purple people eater paly coral mushrooms (quickly becoming one of my favorites) zoas Kenya tree Brain coral Torch coral Sun coral Trumpet/ candy cane coral (LOVE the one I have) Frogspawn (another favorite) Hammer scopas tang sailfin tang blue hippo tang (hated to nix this one, but it wouldn't be right in a 4' tank) yellow tang and/or Mimic Eibli flame or bicolor angel orchid dottyback or magenta pseudochromis royal gramma pajama cardinal small shoal a pair of clownfish (bought a small pair of snowflakes I like for my 29) (got a beautiful nearly naked and a misbar for the 150) honey damsel Lemon Chromis small shoal (would love to hear from anyone who keeps these guys) green clown goby watchman goby yellow or pinkspotted OR orange stripped prawn goby firefish goby blennies, Midas six line wrasse pygmy possum (love these guys!) whip fin fairy wrasse or flasher Pyramid butterflyfish Chalk bass? green mandarin (in a year or so) feather dusters brittle star mini anemones- bubble tips and mini carpets pistol shrimp to keep the goby company peppermint shrimp coral banded Arrow Crab? Snails So please give feedback on this list. Too many fish? Any problems you might see? Think I'm a visionary? I'm still trying to find a puffer/trigger looking reef safe fish...you know a mimic valentini tang or a mimic humu wrasse. Anyone? Hardware update: Got a skimmer today from Capt. Obvious and he had a brilliant idea about my sump. Instead of replacing the 35 with the 55, we're going to combine the two and make a super sump/refugium. Muahahahaha So glad to have a friend like him so near by! He was the one that took care of my tank while I was gone. 6 bulb t5ho strip from Sherita with the MH 175 as a back up plan if it's not enough because my tank is so deep. Just need to buy another water circulation pump and I'm golden. Then I'm going to start working on the facade and hood for my tank to make it really shine. That's all I got for now. Once there's something to see, I'll post some pics. Thank you all for your advice, patience, and warm welcomes. You've all been so gracious and kind. Getting to talk to/ meet you all and learn from you is almost as fun as working on my own tank(s). Almost. Hopefully in a short while, I'll be able to contribute as well! Also, I would love to host a BBQ/ frag swap at my place sometime in the near future for any of you who might want to get together and socialize. (Plus I could show off my tank...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Visionary? Hehehe Other than saying that we ad the same "orchid dotty backs are pretty....oh, but mean...royal grammars look the same" you seem to have had, I have no comments. I almost said "no beneficial comments" but that would imply a benefit to something so far. Forgive me, been huffing silicone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 scopas tang Nice choice sailfin tang Sailfin tangs are very cool fish, I might reconsider blue hippo tang (hated to nix this one, but it wouldn't be right in a 4' tank) yellow tang and/or Mimic Eibli I would go yellow. They will get along with the Scopas and the Sailfin. flame or bicolor angel orchid dottyback or magenta pseudochromis royal gramma Will eat your pods and can be aggressive. May bother your Pj's pajama cardinal small shoal Pj's like low flow and stay near the top of the tank, usually in a corner. a pair of clownfish (bought a small pair of snowflakes I like for my 29) (got a beautiful nearly naked and a misbar for the 150) honey damsel Lemon Chromis small shoal (would love to hear from anyone who keeps these guys) green clown goby watchman goby yellow or pinkspotted OR orange stripped prawn goby All awesome choices! I like the Banded Sleeper Goby as well for a sand sifter. They will eat any small critter in the sand including pods. firefish goby They're pretty cool and would go well with your selection if you decided to get one. blennies, Midas six line wrasse pygmy possum (love these guys!) whip fin fairy wrasse or flasher Needs a 3" sand bed or more. Pyramid butterflyfish Not reef safe. Chalk bass? Carnivore, will eat pods. Better suited for a nano. green mandarin (in a year or so) All the small carnivores will compete for food with the Mandarin so you'll have to feed pods regularily, which can be expensive. While it is true that most small fish will eat pods, most people that keep Dragonettes limit the amount of competition in the tank. Things like the Chalk Bass, Six-Line Wrasse, Green Clown Goby, Royal Gramma, Orchid Dottyback etc. have a primary diet of pods. They accept prepared food easily but will eat any little creature they see in the tank. feather dusters brittle star mini anemones- bubble tips and mini carpets Can't have a Mandarin and a carpet pistol shrimp to keep the goby company peppermint shrimp Once you put Peppermints in your tank, you'll never see anything but their molts again. I had one really really big one that perched on my Devil's Hand during the day sometimes. Generally nocturnal. coral banded Aggressive, will eat feather dusters, snails, fish and stars Arrow Crab? Also aggressive, will eat feather dusters, snails, fish and stars Snails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Thanks for the info guys. Sascha, First of all thanks for being so detailed! Very helpful! I got rid of the sailfin due to their large size, but read in another thread that they aren't as active as Hippos and some of the other big swimmers, so I will revisit that idea. Also like the powder blue, hopefully some one will chime in. The firefish was crossed out because they are prone to jumping, but I might try it anyway because I love the one in my nano. I should have a deep enough bed for the wrasses to be happy All the reading I've done on pyramid butterflies says they are reef safe planktivores and they are very pretty. I imagine they are like the dwarf angels, "with caution". Chalk bass are neat looking and maybe I'll swap some fish from the nano to make room for it. I'll keep competition in mind with the mandarin, but I have time to make sure it will have plenty to eat. Good to know about the carpet. Could you suggest another nem? I thought about a condy or maybe a RBTA Peppermints are just for clean up, so I really don't care about seeing them, though I see them frequently in the nano. I'll keep a very close eye on the coral banded and the arrow if I decide to get them, I know they can be aggressive, but figured one of each in a tank this size should give them plenty of room to do their thing. Arrows are just so cool looking and the coral banded I have is very entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 The Sailfin Tangs can get big in the wild, but not so much in captivity. They grow slowly but can get up to 10". You could try a Djardini Sailfin Tang, they don't get as big. Powder Blue is prone to Ich so temp changes can be dramatic. The firefish shouldn't jump from a 31" tank. They stay in the middle water column almost all the time and won't travel 15" to jump out. They are more likely to shoot for their favorite hideaway hole. For anomone selection I would stick to the ones that your chosen clowns will host. Pick a clown, then pick an anomone that will go with it. RBTA are sensitive, Condy don't host clowns and Carpets are super aggresive and will eat any fish that go near it. I've heard of people having good luck keeping them super fed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Okay thanks! All my clowns are all occellaris so I'll stick with bubble tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 i read tomatoes and clarkii clowns will host in a condy. i think it was in the conscientious marine aquarist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmvanness Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I think I read something along those lines as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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