DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Ive had two tangs in the last year, and both of them got ich a few weeks after I got them. I bought them both after watching them and inspecting them for at least a half hour(my GF hates this part) and decided to bring them home. They were both fine for a couple weeks but after introducing some frags, both of them showed the typical white spots on them. They were not stressed and no tank predators were there, only the tangs and two damsels. Now these tangs were in different tanks at different times so there was no bullying. The first one was a blue hippo. It got ich bad. I fed it seaweed soaked in garlic and flake. It never went into hiding and always ate like a pig. Took months for it to finally go away and it just came back eventually. The ich cycle ran its course over months and months and was anyone's guess when my hippo would sport the salty looking bumps. I tore that tank down and parted with all the fish/critters/LR and started over with a larger tank. Once my larger tank was cycled and a couple of damsels and a orange spotted goby later, I picked up a healthy yellow tang from a LFS. It was fine for weeks eating like a pig and very good personality. I picked up a clam recently from a LFS and 24hrs later my yellow tang had ich....with a vengeance! I tried the seaweed stuff. It lost all personality and went into hiding. Didnt want to eat either. To catch this fish in my tank would require a complete tear down and I hate aquascaping......So instead I picked up a cheaper UV sterilizer...one of those submersible type that come with their own pump. I wasnt going to spend a lot of money on it only to loose the tang anyways. Well 3 days later, not a single white bump on this tang. I have the UV running 8 hrs a day off my apex. Its been 3 weeks now and this tang has never been more friendly and fat. I figure wait another month or so to verify, but I truly believe that the UV is what did it. So for anyone that has an ich problem or is on the fence about getting a UV sterilizer, try it I think you will be impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thanks for posting that. I've been running a UV sterilizer for about a month now, and I always wonder if it's doing a good job or not. I know that I was cleaning microalgae off of my glass every day or every other day before the UV sterilizer and now I don't need to clean but once a week - and that's more for keeping the spirorbid worms and coralline algae from growing on the glass than algae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Well thats a double edge sword. Now that I have a clam and a welso, I didnt really want to feed phyto due to the increased risk of cyano. Ive noticed that now my glass stays far cleaner than ever so this makes me worry that my clam n welso dont have enough to eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If you're running your sterilizer for 1/3 of each day, I guess before feeding, then the food should be cycling for 16 hours every day without UV, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 I only feed once every 3 days or so and I have the UV set to off on feed cycle via apex. However, since the clam is a filter feeder basically along with the welso, with the algae content near zero I believe I will start target feeding them both with a turkey baster. I did this once before with my welso and the tentacles were insane long after that and it was puffed up more than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Whats the UV that you picked up? I'm in the market for a stand alone UV that I don't have to plumb and can just drop it in my sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Well Im not one to normally pick up any type of hardware from petco but I picked up the 25w version of the green killing machine. Its deffo not a good one like the one that Hydro recommends but it seemed to get the job done. At the end of the day, I havent had it long enough to see how long it lasts. The pump doesnt seem to be super quality and bulb replacement requires you to basically replace the entire thing. Now since the price was far lower than a high quality one and running it on a timer, it may be worth it if it lasts 8-10mo. If it craps out in a couple months, I dang sure will order a good one and plumb it into my system. Everyone knows that petco fish are usually shipped in loaded with ich.....have you ever seen their UV system? Its the size of a decent size microwave! When picking up dog food there I always check out their tanks since my kids love to stare at the tanks(even the fresh water...I know depressing). Ive seen tangs that they just got shipped in be prime candidates for connect the dot games and stay in their tanks for weeks. I go back to pick up some more dog treats and there is the same tangs ich free....I dont think its pure luck and considering they put the least amount of effort into their saltwater tanks as possible, it isnt ironic that they use a very powerful UV system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I went back and forth with the idea of adding UV to my system. Hydro Innovations gave some great pro's for using UV but I ended not buying one because of the potential to kill the "good" as well as the "bad". I have three tangs in my system. I feed frozen food and nori soaked with garlic one/twice a week and that keeps the ich monster at bay. I have never had an outbreak, though when the tangs first were put in the system they all got a small infection of ich. Nothing major, just a couple spots here and there. I figure ich is inherent in my system, just like cyano will always be (it's always waiting for the right opportunity to flourish). If I can naturally keep it at bay, then I will aim to do that instead of adding additional equipment to remedy. Plus with all the frag trading and water from other systems, I'd be crazy to think I can keep an entirely sterile tank with no ich or anything else in the water. If I can keep the conditions that it favors most at a minimum, then I don't have a problem anymore. Just my 2 cents. -Ty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thanks DerrickH for the info. Although I never plan on keeping tangs I do want to have preventative measures in place in case I ever do get ich. I will mainly be using a UV to assist with algae control though and 8 hours a day with my sump light timer works for me as long as the pump isn't too noisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Well with the bacteria thing, my way of thinking is the good stuff is in the rock, substrate, and sump. There seems to minimal qty of nitrifying bacteria in the water column itself. Also running it on a timer will give a balance of killing things and giving time for them to repopulate. One thing I have noticed though, and this was discussed in another thread Hydro started, as the calcium/mag/alk levels may be effected by this. Im not sure of the outcome of that thread but I believe the timer method was used to control chemical bond breakdown of the elements. I was running my UV non stop when the ich was all over my yellow. Now that its gone I have set to run for 8hrs during the day. With the reduced run time, I am finding it a lot easier to keep my dkh and Ca levels up. Again, I dose pickling lime and baking soda, the water in Jarrell is so much softer than anywhere Ive lived and the entire house is plumbed through our water softener as well not sure why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thanks DerrickH for the info. Although I never plan on keeping tangs I do want to have preventative measures in place in case I ever do get ich. I will mainly be using a UV to assist with algae control though and 8 hours a day with my sump light timer works for me as long as the pump isn't too noisy. I cannot hear the pump at all. Its a very low flow pump to increase contact time with the UV lamp. Any UV lamp that has low contact time IMO would be useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'll have it by the end of the week. Thanks again. Can't beat a .15c a day insurance policy against ich and algae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I bought a Tropical Marine Centre (TMC) Vecton V2 600 (25W UVC lamp) from American Aquarium Products. It's pricy, $164, and probably requires plumbing. I planned on putting it just after my sump return pump, but that Mag 12 has 1375 gph flow. The Vecton V2 600 is meant to have 500-750 gph for level 1 sterilization and 250 gph max. for level 2. I bought a cheap MJ900 that pumps 230 gph through the sterilizer, and everything looks great. I've read a lot of articles by experts (not shills for UV) that state the bulk of the "good" bacteria is not in the water column, so the UV sterilizer in my sump shouldn't affect that at all. I dose kalkwasser (pickling lime and 5% vinegar) every night, and my Ca/dKH/Mg levels are really high (granted coralline algae, spirorbid worms, ornamental shrimp, etc. are my only Ca sinks for now). I need to shut of the sterilizer when I dose kalk or anything else, just to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Here's the one I just bought which is a 24w rated for 100g. This and the new fluval filter I ordered should K.O. this algae problem I've been battling. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AA-Aquarium-24-Watt-Internal-UV-Sterilizer-W-power-head?item=360415473071&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7625163505595771673 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thats the exact same one I got. I have it in the DT in the corner slid down behind the rocks. I painted the back of my tank black and this thing is virtually invisible other than the blue filter element. I would recommend getting some of the blue and white filter floss and cut your own squares. The larger piece you cut, the tighter it will fit therefore bringing down the micron size of any entrainment. This however will increase the amount of times you have to clean/replace the media element, small price to pay though. I think this would extend the life of the bulb considerably but the pump life to me seems paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Here's the one I just bought which is a 24w rated for 100g. This and the new fluval filter I ordered should K.O. this algae problem I've been battling. http://www.ebay.com/...163505595771673 Yea, that should be very good. From what I've seen, such as this table: If you have 24W if you have < 200 gph going through it (24W * 8 gph/W = 192 gph) then you'll have great sterilization (Level 2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuxx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Do you think having one or two of these in the sump of a 240 gal system would do anything? Or just be like trying to put a fire out with a water gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yeah you would need a larger one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuxx Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Just thinking I have lots of room in the sump... could run 2 24watt UVs and when QTing, could just take one out and use in QT. Do you run it 24hrs a day? Seems the smaller UVs are ok to be ran that long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 No I run mine for 8hrs a day. Im going to trim that time down some still. If I see ich pop up, then will crank it back up. I believe it was causing my ak/ca/mg levels to be skewed a little when it ran all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuxx Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Awesome, nothing a timer can't fix. What time of day do you run it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Im running it when my fuge lamp is on off of my apex. Figure the pods stay nestled in the cheato during this time and during dark hours they roam around a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Just thinking I have lots of room in the sump... could run 2 24watt UVs and when QTing, could just take one out and use in QT. Do you run it 24hrs a day? Seems the smaller UVs are ok to be ran that long... Be careful on qt tanks with sterilizers, it will heat the water and cook the fish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I've read a lot of articles by experts (not shills for UV) that state the bulk of the "good" bacteria is not in the water column, so the UV sterilizer in my sump shouldn't affect that at all. I dose kalkwasser (pickling lime and 5% vinegar) every night, and my Ca/dKH/Mg levels are really high (granted coralline algae, spirorbid worms, ornamental shrimp, etc. are my only Ca sinks for now). I need to shut of the sterilizer when I dose kalk or anything else, just to be sure. I agree, the bacteria is on the surface. The UV can't sterilize what doesn't pass through it. It will kill algae in the water column no doubt, if I turn mine off the glass is covered in less than 2 days, with my UV its every 5 days. If you guys are on the fence about the UV just have it ready and only run it when you need it. I personally run mine 24/7 but I wouldn't say that is necessary. My UV is a 6 gpm commercial model that I run at 5 gpm to really make sure it kills everything, I'm still not sure if it effects my mag or not, I never wanted to turn it off long enough to find out. Plus corals piss me off so I don't check those levels anymore...they either live or they don't lol. My suspicion is that strong UV makes mag fall out, I always had crazy troubles with my mag when I was dosing it. I would have to add absurd amounts of it and could barely get it above 1200. I seriously could put in 8lbs at a time of the mag supplement from BRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Be careful on qt tanks with sterilizers, it will heat the water and cook the fish! Great point, I hadn't thought about that. Another reason to run only at night/morning. I haven't noticed a problem with Ca/dKH/Mg, but then I have a really light load for all three. I dose kalkwasser (pickling lime & 5% vinegar) out of a DIY dripper just upstream of my UV intake. Maybe I'll start to see weird readings after I add Ca/dKH/Mg loads. I know for a fact it's helped with microalgae. Anecdotally, I haven't seen any diseases since I started it (but added few things, too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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