PatrickS Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hey yawl! I will be starting up my 28g HQI Biocube soon. One big way to save money it seems is to get dead rock(dry rock). With that said I am really getting a lot of different ideas about it..... I like that with dead rock I wont be getting anything I don't want in my tank like aptasia and even majanos anemones. No need to mention that dead rock is 1/2 or less the price of live rock. Im planing to really take my time with the tank there for letting the dead rock become live over time, correct? Now live rock I know it is coming with a bunch of nitrifying bacteria! But again when the dead rock turns over to live rock then wont it also have a lot of the good bacteria? Again this seems to be one of those thing that the more I read about it and the more I ask about it the more it becomes unclear what to do!!! Please help me and give me your suggestion/experiences with this matter! P.S. Where I stand now Im thinking of small amount of crushed coral for a substrate and mostly dead rock and a few pieces of live rock. Along with one starter fish to get my tank started. Thanks so much! Patrick Shaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) i am at the same point as you with my future salt tank.. 20 G i am planning on getting my DRY rock from PROF, he is local.. i don't think its "Controversial" as much as Many member wish they would have gone this route from the beginning.. LOL i will add a bag of live sand.. another member Sarah.. gave me a live bacterial culture.. then i will let the tank cycle for several weeks.. i myself am going to add a clean up crew instead of a starter fish.. ps.. if you do a starter fish.. DON"T get a Damsel.. i am hearing that is a Mistake Many make.. they are Hardy fish.. but they bully the fish you may really want.. AND they are VERY HARD to catch in the tank.. LOL Edited November 22, 2011 by Warlock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Use a raw shrimp to cycle. Your CUC will most likely die during the ammonia peak in the cycle. Snails dont do well with even trace amounts of ammonia. You can even cycle with fish food but takes for ever....Use a large raw shrimp and just let it sit with a little bit of flow in the tank, no skimmer running, no carbon, no lights. Bacteria will flourish and your will ride the cycle wave... I started with live rock but let it sun bleach for weeks before using it to kill off any pests. Do not use the purified water from say....heb/walmart....I did this when I moved my tank to RR, rock turned lime green in 2 weeks and had to bleach it out again to get rid of it! USE RO/DI water with 0TDS. Some people use tap water, but it all depends on whats in their water source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 derrick.. thanks..!! i was not clear.. that i wanted to add CUC as my first marine life.. after tank was cycled.. not in uncycled tank.. ps.. how long does the shrimp need to decompose before you tank it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Get a test kit. I would leave a small piece in there for the entire cycle. You will first detect ammonia, then nitrite (NO2) and then the final product is nitrate (NO3). When there is zero, literally zero, ammonia and NO2, the cycle is finished. You can do a partial water change and slowly start adding your CUC. If there is any ammonia or NO2, the cycle is not complete yet, so just keep waiting. Also, don't load too much after the tank is cycled. If you surpass the biological capacity soon after a cycle, you can cause a second soft cycle as the system needs to build up more bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 It all depends on a multitude of variables. At the end of the day nothing proper and beautiful in the sea happens quickly. Watch your ammonia with test kit every 3 days or so. When your ammonia is as high as your test kit will register (within reason some kits are crazy high) then remove the shrimp and then continue to monitor your ammonia. Also check your other params nitrates/nitrites. Ammonia will just fall one day and you will be on to the second portion of the cycle that will last a little shorter than the ammonia portion. Once the tank is cycled and there is only trace amounts of nitrates, then do a large water change and your set. Dont be surprised when you start running your lights (start with short photo period) and you start seeing a ton of golden looking algae exploding(diatoms), this is again just a stage of new tank syndrome. This would be a good time to add your CUC. Next expect GHA to explode. Once the GHA and diatoms have consumed all the silicates in your tank they will eventually die off, this is just the "puberty" of the tank. You could run GFO and GAC at the diatom stage and it would help clarify the water. Dead substrate out of a bag WILL have silicates in it and there is nothing you can do about it except let nature take its course and clear up on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99taws6 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Dry rock just takes more time but if you have the time, save some money. I always start my cycles with Mollies. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I have read thread on direct ammonia dosing to move the cycle along quickly, but wont catch me trying to supercharge mother nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 hey.. wait a minute!! won't that raw shrimp start to smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 All cycling tanks smell, nature of the beast. Remember, the shrimp will be submerged so wont be like throwing a porkchop in your backseat and forgetting about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 All cycling tanks smell, nature of the beast. Remember, the shrimp will be submerged so wont be like throwing a porkchop in your backseat and forgetting about it.... derrick.. if you are kidding with me.. i will send a TROJAN WORM your way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Your tank will be pretty funky for the first few weeks of the cycle. Febreeze is your friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Your tank will be pretty funky for the first few weeks of the cycle. Febreeze is your friend... i guess it can't be any worse then my brother/roommate.. LOL!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 When your done, you can put the shrimp in his pillow case....just sayin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Prof has got some cool looking rock but you can also just use limestone. I use a lot of local honeycomb and flagstone in my tanks, just be sure to hose it off well. Check you ammonia from the get go: as in check you're tap water, your filtered water and the new saltwater before you put it to start up your tank and after. Unless you're on a well you should see ammonia levels about 1 ppm before it ever gets in your tank. It doesn't matter how you do it you WILL end up with a cycled tank. The only way you can stop the bacteria from cycling is to add bleach. There are differing opinions (sometimes very differing ) on which way is best but very little solid research has been done. (Probably won't be until someone does the years long research to look at 'Old Tank Syndrome'). Your ammonia, nitrite and pH readings will tell you. First two zero and pH will typically start low and move up to 8.3/8.4 as things start to settle down. I personally would only use live rock to set up a tank though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Do you use the honeycomb limestone in any reef tanks as a main source of biofiltration? I ask cause I have access to some awesome large pieces that would look great. but you can also just use limestone. I use a lot of local honeycomb and flagstone in my tanks, just be sure to hose it off well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Thanks for the tips! I will let yawl know what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Do you use the honeycomb limestone in any reef tanks as a main source of biofiltration? I ask cause I have access to some awesome large pieces that would look great. but you can also just use limestone. I use a lot of local honeycomb and flagstone in my tanks, just be sure to hose it off well The bacteria for biofiltration do not care. They will colonize anything and even a empty tank can can handle a surprisingly large bioload on the bacteria that is on just the glass. Live rock adds a lot more than just the basic bacteria used for nitrification. Here's a quote from Delbeck and Sprung "With live rock it is possible to have ecosystem level complexity of food webs . . .". You can establish and maintain reef tanks without live rock but it will be much more difficult to establish the complexity that is the hallmark of a stable ecosystem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Good comments. Biofiltration is more than bacteria, it is complex food webs which recycle nutriants while growing food. The more biodiversity the more stable the system. With respect to the shrimp as a nutriant source to cycle a tank, it is what it is. http://www.chucksaddiction.com/cleanupcrew.html At the end of the "Clean up Crew" article, chuck gives a detailed writ-up on cycling a marine tank. Whoever said they were going to put 2" crushed coral for substrate, needs to look at what kind of critters are going to live in that large grain media. Put more attention into the critters smaller than snails and hermits. http://www.inlandaquatics.com/DETRITIVORES.html Between Chuch and Morgan Lister at Inland Aquatics there is much information that make up micro fauna and fana. Happy reefing, Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 After proof reading, I need to expound on two details. CaribSea crushed coral is a high source of arrogonite which is desirable as a buffer in our marine systems. It has a grain size between 2mm-5mm. With this grain size many populations of micro fauna will not develope because of the large grain size. Also, with a grain size this large, much detrius will collect without proper maintenance. I am similiar in thought with Timfish, if there is a biological process in place, I will not make work for myself. Detrivore kits are required in my reef husbandry, Less Technology/More Biology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks Subsea for the information! Tank is goin up in a week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 so which sand do i get for the base.. the fine stuff.. or the stuff just alittle coarser.. !? which are both finer then the crush coral (i don't want that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Argonite is fine. Crushed coral also has a lot of sharp edges from the looks of it. Would think that it would not be too good on the sifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Argonite is fine. Crushed coral also has a lot of sharp edges from the looks of it. Would think that it would not be too good on the sifters. i have seen the argonite stuff.. but they seem to have a variation of the texture.. Crushed Coral is OUT of the question for me.. what are the most popular Sand that people use?! that sifters have no problems with... Edited November 28, 2011 by Warlock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You might want to read the below article. Bottom line, aragonite does nothing for your tank: Aquarium Chemistry: Calcite, Aragonite, Limestone, and More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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