trozacky Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 So I am buying a 115 Gallon tank on Friday. This is going to be my first SW Tank. I need to know how to get started. 1.How much sand will I need (LBS). Does it have to be alive or will bagged sand work? 2. Where do I get 115 Gallons of water to mix with the salt? Will tapwater work to get started and then us the deionized on all future water changes? What salt is best? 3. LIverock. Whats the difference from liverock and dead live rock? Can I use the dead as a base and then stack liverock on top? Will dead rock become liverock once cycled with live rock? 4. Can I put the sand in the tank add water and then add liverock as I get it. Or should I have the liverock before I mix the water? Im lost please advise. Also anyone know where I can get some cheap liverock? Thanks in advance to any help. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbnj Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Start by watching this video to learn how to cycle a tank: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 1.I can't remember the exact rule for sand but it's based off of your preference. Some do 1", 2", or no sand at all. I do suggest if you do sand set your LR up first. 2.Do not use tap water. Get yourself an RO/DI unit or make a couple of trips to your LFS for water. You'll need a unit anyway for weekly water changes. 3. Theres not much of a difference. If you need LR make sure you check out the for sale section. Also make sure if you are going to stack you set up correctly. 4. LR first. Doesn't matter with the other 2. You want you liverock to be as stable as possible on the bottom and not on sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 As far as the rock goes, I would probably go with dry rock if I was going to start a new tank. It is way cheaper than any live rock and you are guaranteed no pests. It is also quarried so you know that none comes from a real reef, and it's shape is usually easier to stack. Marco rocks, Bulk reef supply, and reefcleaners all offer great dry rock. Some of the local retailers may offer it as well. Once you get your layout done, get a few lbs of very high quality live rock to seed the whole tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhart032 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 For dry rock, message Prof hes a member here and its great to go out to his place cause he has pallets of rock and you can take the dimensions of your tank and build your aquascaping in his driveway. he sells it normally for 2.50 a lb witch is pretty good.. as for the water. tap is no good!! you need ro/di water. and 144g is going to be alot of water. its recommended you get an ro/di system. check ebay. there like 104 shipped at least the 7stage i got was. as for your sand Prof sells clean sand as well. he can help you figure out how much you need. normally anything more than 2"- 2 1/2" is trouble. thats when you have most problems. also talk to MCallahagn "mr Saltwater reef" about Dr. tims bacteria in a bottle (there is NO substitute that works!). its great for cycling new systems. the norm is 3days and its cycled, and the plus side is you have to put fish in the tank to make it work. great stuff i used it on my new build. i would start with that. a nice fish only with live rock for a couple months while you read and read and read! get to know what things are. get on a good tank build thread, and read the entire thread and see what trials and tribulations they have had. there is a 75% chance you will have the same ones. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trozacky Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Ok I read the video and I think Im going to cycle with the bacteria in a bottle. Thanks for the dry rock suggestion. I can probably use bagged sand and use the premium liverock to cycle everything. Does anyone have advise on setting up the rocks? Like using PVC and how to do it. What is a RO/DI and where can I get one. If anyone has anything for sale that I might can use let me know. I live in Taylor and go to Ausitn a lot. Thanks for all the help. Please dont stop with the suggestions. This is very helpful. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If this is tour first salt water my suggestion would be to slow down. Read and research. You can spend a lot of money in this hobby doing things that are not beneficial. IMO, live sand is worthless because it has probably been sitting in a warehouse for who knows how long before it gets to you which kills anything in it. Your aquaacaping is more of a personal choice on what you think looks good. You will want some caves for tour livestock and maybe some shelves or flat areas for coral. As long as you think it looks good run with it. Dr. Tims bacteria is amazing and what I am using when I set up my 125 this weekend or next. An RO/DI system filters your water for top off and making salt water for water changes. It filters the water to be as pure as possible. Several of our sponsors sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonHoff Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 your def. starting off big! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trozacky Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I just bought a book this afternoon and Ive been lurking on here for a month or so. Ive talked to a few LPS and I think Im finally ready to do it. Ive done some research but I always appreciate as much advice as I can get. Can I buy Dr. Tims Bacteria any where locally or is it just online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Dr tims is not sold local to the best of my knowledge. I bought mine directly from the company website. As a caveat I got sent some free stuff with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 A few good live rock pieces will replace most any supplement you can find. Alternately, just get someone with a really established and clean tank to give you 5 or 10 gallons of their waste water during a change and it's all the bacteria starter you will need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 So I am buying a 115 Gallon tank on Friday. This is going to be my first SW Tank. I need to know how to get started. 1.How much sand will I need (LBS). Does it have to be alive or will bagged sand work? I swear by live sand, been using it for years and wouldn't start a tank without it. I generally start with 1lb sand to 10 gal water and add more for aesthetics as needed. 2. Where do I get 115 Gallons of water to mix with the salt? Will tapwater work to get started and then us the deionized on all future water changes? I have a huge experience base with RO and would advise you use it but here's a link to a tank I've been maintaining with tap water for over 3 years. You can also check out DoMAs 300 gal tank in the photo section that's being maintained with tapwater. The main problem I see with tap water is it helps add phosphates to the tank. Years ago when I started tap water might have phosphates that was measurable in the PPM, now it's a lot lower. Whichever you use food is probably going to be the main source of phosphates so you will want to monitor it. (and you might be lucky enough that your tank is "balanced" well enough that it's all used up). What salt is best? I'd say it probably doesn't matter too much but I've been using Instant Ocean for years 3. LIverock. Whats the difference from liverock and dead live rock? Can I use the dead as a base and then stack liverock on top? Will dead rock become liverock once cycled with live rock? I actually use a lot of local limestone then put liverock on top. It would be unusual for me to use more than 1/2 lb per gal. liverock. Prof has some good base rock. 4. Can I put the sand in the tank add water and then add liverock as I get it. Or should I have the liverock before I mix the water? It doesn't matter a whole lot. If you're going to do it piecemeal you probably are better off using a suplemental bacteria culture but even that's not needed. Once you get the salt and water mixed up and in the tank bacteria will start colonizing the tank. Everything we add to the tank just helps get it going faster. The sequence I use is to add the water (with about 10% from an established tank) sand and most of the rock in one day. Test the 2nd day for ammonia, pH and Alk. and if they're OK start adding fish, Inverts and corals. I've been starting tanks this way for many years and while I plan for an ammonia cycle to occur I haven't seen one since I started using the combination of live sand and live rock with some seed water from another tank. There is still going to be the typical algae cycles that take 3 or 4 months to go through but I've not had problems adding corals during this time. Here's a link to a tank I set up last June, damsels weere added day two along with some mushrooms, frogspawn thefollowing week, tank was pretty well stocked by September (not that we haven't stopped adding animals but we're were pulling overgrowth out by December): Im lost please advise. Also anyone know where I can get some cheap liverock? Thanks in advance to any help. Probably the best book I've come across for explaining what's going on is Sprung and Delbecks "The Reef Aquarium, Science, Art, and Technology" Vol 3 chapters 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. What I've touched on with just a few sentences they've devoted whole chapters too. Welcome to the hobby! I've been keeping saltwater for 24 years now and I am still fascinated and surprised by what happens in my tanks. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trozacky Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Just ordered Dr.Tims. Ill get the tank on Friday clean it out and run an test to make sure there are no leaks. Set up the water, LR and sand this weekend and cycle the tank as soon as the Dr. Tims come in. Ill take pictures of the process. I really appreciate all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trozacky Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 When moving liverock from another tank how long can it stay dry before it dies. If there are coral frags do they need to be transported in water. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 If you put the live rock in a bucket for half an hour it'll be okay dry, it stays damp as long as there's a lid on the bucket. Live rock is frequently shipped with just damp newspaper so you can use that technique as well, or damp towels or something like that. Coral, whether frags or colonies, definitely have to be transferred in water. Some species can be out of water for a minute or two but not extended periods of time. Ziploc baggies and small Tupperware containers are good for moving frags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trozacky Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 1)If you use limeston as part of an aquascape will bacterica and coral grow on it? 2)When makes an aquascape what kind of apoxy can you use to stick the rock together? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 1)If you use limeston as part of an aquascape will bacterica and coral grow on it? 2)When makes an aquascape what kind of apoxy can you use to stick the rock together? Thanks It doesn't matter what you use you'll get stuff growing on it. As far as sticking stuff together the underwater epoxys work but it will be expensive and there's always the risk of it breaking. DO NOT use tie wraps or zip ties, at best they only have a 2 or 3 year life expectancy. Check out other threads here and in the DIY forum for different ways to do your rock work. There have been some pretty cool aquascapes done with spray foam. I use a cheap hammer drill and a 5/8" or 3/4" masonry bit to drill holes and pin the rock together with 1/2" CPVC pipe. I also occasionally use white portland cement but it needs to be cured first and I'm usually not patient enough to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 http://www.MrSaltWaterTank.com/its-clear-and-sticky-but-does-it-work/ This stuff is supposed to be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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