MY 1 MONTH OLD TANK

[wizardx322]

Alright before anyone says anything I have done my research and I have read alot about everything. But I thought I would try and see how everything is and to see how true all the information I have read about online about anemone and clams and corals and when to add them and all. Well i am not a patient person when i get excited about stuff so its either going to crash on me or run perfect and so far my tank is running like a CHAMP!.

Progress:

week 1: Set up the tank and add live rock. (cycled really fast) and added 2 ocellaris clowns. and 2 days after I added a Green bubble tip (he is in the back so was not able to get a pic of it).

week 2: I found a rose anemone : ) (thats very happy and eating) , blue tang, yellow tang and added some more live rock with mushrooms on. tiger conch and blue tuxedo urchin.

week 3: added the more mexican turbo (my glass is so clean lol) , cleaner shrimp, arrow crab, and a peppermint shrimp.

week 4: I added a clam ( don't know how its going to do but so far everything has been a positive)

Thats what i have done so far and have not lost anything and there is no sign other then the tangs getting ich (which is usual in tangs) of anything in my tank doing bad. Also every water test I have had has been good from little to no ammonia and nitrate.

My set up: 30gal tank, Coralife HQI hang on 150 watt w/ pheonix 14k bulb, wet dry filter, coralife skimmer, quieteone pump, and aqueon circulation pump 500

My next step is more corals and clams!! lol and a harlequin shrimp to help eat the brittle star fish.

HERE ARE MY PICS OF THE TANK : (these are from today 08/20/2010)

Edited August 21, 2010 by wizardx322

[joshman1204]

please stop everything you are doing and do some more research! Two tangs in a 30gal tank along with some clowns and two nems!!! I am way to tired to tell you everything that is wrong with that but please just stop and do some research before you do anything else and find a good home for those tangs as fast as you can.

Edited August 21, 2010 by joshman1204

[wizardx322]

please stop everything you are doing and do some more research! Two tangs in a 30gal tank along with some clowns and two nems!!! I am way to tired to tell you everything that is wrong with that but please just stop and do some research before you do anything else and find a good home for those tangs as fast as you can.

I already know i am setting a (I already have it)135 gal to move them don't worry everything in this 30 is just temporary except coral i will have the big tank ready to go with in a month and it has plenty of room. just gotta get water, salt and sand. and if you read my first line i said "I know what your going to say and i have done the research" thats why i just set this one up temp till my other tank is ready. Trust me i would not spend the money and not be ready i have planned this. And i do see your point.

Edited August 21, 2010 by wizardx322

[joshman1204]

I am going to resort to the old saying .... "if you cant say something nice just dont say anything at all"

[ReefNewb]

all this moving sounds stressful on the fish. idk if stress can kill a fish though..... http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/13493-picking-up-my-new-tank-tommorow/

[wizardx322]

all this moving sounds stressful on the fish. idk if stress can kill a fish though..... http://www.austinree...-tank-tommorow/

i know it can and at the moment they are not showing any signs of stress ich free eating and not fighting(the blue tang did have ich but its gone now). if they werent doing any of this i would not have them and give them away to a larger tank immediatly. so please everyone can quite saying the bad stuff i have read about it all already. i just put my post up to show what i have done and i am going to move them soon because tangs do get big and i know it cuz i used to have a 150 gal.

Edited August 21, 2010 by wizardx322

[Hamp]

It can take a while for everything in your tank to die off. Usually you wake up one morning and something is dead; if not everything. I would really think about selling all your livestock, especially those anemones and clam, and just do things right. If you dont have enough patience to set up a tank, you will not last long in this hobby. You have some really nice stuff, and its hard enough to keep them alive when you do everything right. Just give everything a little time so you dont start off killing hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. I think you will be much happier with the hobby, and all of us will be much happier with you.

[wizardx322]

It can take a while for everything in your tank to die off. Usually you wake up one morning and something is dead; if not everything. I would really think about selling all your livestock, especially those anemones and clam, and just do things right. If you dont have enough patience to set up a tank, you will not last long in this hobby. You have some really nice stuff, and its hard enough to keep them alive when you do everything right. Just give everything a little time so you dont start off killing hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. I think you will be much happier with the hobby, and all of us will be much happier with you.

i do agree with you and if anything starts to show any signs i have a friend that has a 100 gal tank that got me started that can take care of all my stuff till the 135 is up and going and i can honestly promise everyone that i will give it away to my friend if i see any signs bad starting. thanks for the advice i will consider it. Actualy my friend is going to take my green anemone and i know these can get big fast.

Edited August 21, 2010 by wizardx322

[Brooks]

Looks nice, and I'm glad you're getting a 135 set up for your Tangs. However, I would go ahead and give your friend with the 100g tank all of your livestock. The two tangs in a 30g tank is just a bit much. Even though you already have your 135, setting it up and cycling can take a while, which will be stressful on your animals. I'm not going to say that a lot of us have put larger fish in a smaller tank... I'm one of them. I currently have a Yellow Tang that my parents bought me in my 34g, but I have a home lined up for him that he will be going to next Friday... saying I can catch the little dude.

Good luck on your set up, but please go ahead and let your friend take care of your livestock.

[wizardx322]

Looks nice, and I'm glad you're getting a 135 set up for your Tangs. However, I would go ahead and give your friend with the 100g tank all of your livestock. The two tangs in a 30g tank is just a bit much. Even though you already have your 135, setting it up and cycling can take a while, which will be stressful on your animals. I'm not going to say that a lot of us have put larger fish in a smaller tank... I'm one of them. I currently have a Yellow Tang that my parents bought me in my 34g, but I have a home lined up for him that he will be going to next Friday... saying I can catch the little dude.

Good luck on your set up, but please go ahead and let your friend take care of your livestock.

I prob will because honestly i just want my 30 to be a coral reef tank prob end up with no fish or mayb 1 the 135 is my fish only tank cant wait o have it done so i can get bigger fish.

[medi]

Look....I know I am just preaching to the choir, but you have got to be patient with this hobby. Your tank has been up for one month and you have already way overloaded that little tank. It looks like your trying to go in the right direction, but you've got to think about the stress you're putting your fish and corals through. You said your ammonia and nitrate are almost zero. That is NOT a good thing. The two things you HAVE to monitor right now is your nitrite and ammonia. Both should be ZERO before you even think about adding fish much less corals. Having a little nitrate in your tank is not necessarily a bad thing. It just means your nitrogen cycle is working. I know it seems like everyone is harping on you, but we have all been where you are and want to see everyone in this hobby succeed. Trust me it is a lot easier to do it right the first time than to try and fix problems later.

Also, can you tell us a little more about your tank? What kind of filtration system are you using?

Just in case you are not fully aware of how the nitrogen cycle works here is a very simple diagram that helps to explain it.

[TheKipf]

I'll just add that I don't think Harlequin shrimp eat brittle starfish.

[wizardx322]

I'll just add that I don't think Harlequin shrimp eat brittle starfish.

ya i dont know on that cuz i have asked alot of people i personaly wouth think no because of house fast they can retract back into the live rocks but i dont know i want them gone but no luck with any other ideas without killing the live rock.

Edited August 21, 2010 by wizardx322

[innate1]

I'm confused. You read up and know everything but aren't doing any of the things that lead to a healthy happy tank. You're stocking, no make that overstocking a tank that hasn't had a chance to cycle and want people to say what? Atta boy way to go? I hope you have deep pockets.

[Timfish]

WizardX322, I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. While I believe the axiom "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" using live rock and live sand you added already established bacterial colonies not starting from scratch which would take a lot more time. Your animals are telling you everything is hunky dory even when your tests may not show pristine conditions. I would encourage you to stick with cultured animals as it's much easier to find animals that are already acclimated to the lights you are using rather than the hit and more likely badly miss with wild collected stuff. As far as the tangs my experience you'll be lucky to get an inch of growth a year and I'd say based on your pictures you've easily got a year or more before they outgrow your 30 gal.

[Timfish]

I'm confused. You read up and know everything but aren't doing any of the things that lead to a healthy happy tank. You're stocking, no make that overstocking a tank that hasn't had a chance to cycle and want people to say what? Atta boy way to go? I hope you have deep pockets.

Actually WizardX322 said ". . . I have read alot about everything . . ."

[wizardx322]

WizardX322, I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. While I believe the axiom "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" using live rock and live sand you added already established bacterial colonies not starting from scratch which would take a lot more time. Your animals are telling you everything is hunky dory even when your tests may not show pristine conditions. I would encourage you to stick with cultured animals as it's much easier to find animals that are already acclimated to the lights you are using rather than the hit and more likely badly miss with wild collected stuff. As far as the tangs my experience you'll be lucky to get an inch of growth a year and I'd say based on your pictures you've easily got a year or more before they outgrow your 30 gal.

thank you for your comment and info on the tangs.

I'm confused. You read up and know everything but aren't doing any of the things that lead to a healthy happy tank. You're stocking, no make that overstocking a tank that hasn't had a chance to cycle and want people to say what? Atta boy way to go? I hope you have deep pockets.

like timfish pointed out I said i have read alot about everything i dont know everything and never said i did. i have asked several people same questions and each give me a different answer so i am making my own.

Edited August 22, 2010 by wizardx322

[wizardx322]

Look....I know I am just preaching to the choir, but you have got to be patient with this hobby. Your tank has been up for one month and you have already way overloaded that little tank. It looks like your trying to go in the right direction, but you've got to think about the stress you're putting your fish and corals through. You said your ammonia and nitrate are almost zero. That is NOT a good thing. The two things you HAVE to monitor right now is your nitrite and ammonia. Both should be ZERO before you even think about adding fish much less corals. Having a little nitrate in your tank is not necessarily a bad thing. It just means your nitrogen cycle is working. I know it seems like everyone is harping on you, but we have all been where you are and want to see everyone in this hobby succeed. Trust me it is a lot easier to do it right the first time than to try and fix problems later.

Also, can you tell us a little more about your tank? What kind of filtration system are you using?

Just in case you are not fully aware of how the nitrogen cycle works here is a very simple diagram that helps to explain it.

ya didn't know this part thanks for the info. My tank is drilled and i use a sump that has filter media and bio balls and i have 30lbs of live rock. are bio balls good? i have read and some say good and some say bad.

Edited August 22, 2010 by wizardx322

[innate1]

Actually WizardX322 said ". . . I have read alot about everything . . ."

Start a tank and stock it the same week? That's irresponsible. Two tangs in a 30 gallon and you think he's got a year before he runs out of room? Really? My bad I'm sorry. I hope everything works out I do but this is a hobby where what you do affects the lives of things. You should want to put them in the best situation possible. I doubt you read anywhere that it would be ok to keep a, single, uno, one tang in a 30 gal much less two. I just think that responsible reef keeping should be practiced and not just a slogan. But hey that's just me.

Edited August 22, 2010 by innate1

[Timfish]

Those two tangs might have a Standard Length of 2 1/2" ea. That's nothing in that size tank. You'll see much heavier stocking levels in every pet shop in Austin. In my tanks I've maintained stocking levels of probably 4X what WizzardX322 has now for years. Keeping a heavily stocked tank will have enhanced risks as the fish grow and mature I want to reiterate some of the points other people have made in other threads: Maintaining low fish levels has advantages such as lower nutrient and waste production and reduced behavior/territorial issues and in case of problems reduced risk of loss of animals. Definitely research any animal being considered before adding it. I also laud his intentions to maintain this system as a fishless system (like DaJMasta's almost fishless nano) after he gets his bigger system going.

As far as setting up a system and adding fish the first week, if your adding mature bacterial colonies whether it's cured live rock, live sand or as I have done limestone from another tank I see that as very different then starting a system from scratch. If the pH and alkalinity are fine and there's no ammonia (WizzardX322 said it went to zero quickly) your bacteria are doing their job, add fish. Actually, I could argue that since bacteria colonies will grow or die off depending on how much food is available you need to add animals.

As far as me being irresponsible because I maintain heavier stocking levels than you, if you maintain a reef system it is G U A R A N T E E D you will kill animals. I don't see that I'm any more irresponsible than you.

It bothers me to loose fish or animals, sometimes alot. Unfortunately the one guaranty is every fish we put in a tank will die. One of the facts I use to console/justify doing this is from what I've found fish live MUCH longer in captivity than in the wild. When I look at how far we've come since I set up my first saltwater in '88 I am truly amazed. No one had captive raised fish, Xenia was considered impossible to keep and most hobbyest were shooting in the dark guessing what the lighting requirements were for the wild corals they were buying. Directly or indirectly because we are setting up tanks and buying stuff and unfortunately killing stuff off we've created the means and motivation for companies and scientist to do research and figure out what needs to be done to keep this stuff alive and healthy. Now a tank can be set up COMPLETELY with captive raised fish and corals. There is also a real possibility we have created gene pools that may be critical to the survival of some species. I don't like seeing fish die and sometimes it looks like they've died a very miserable death but when I look at how far we've come it's not going to stop me from continuing knowing one way or another I'm killing fish, hopefully most will be from old age.

[GKarshens]

Sorry Tim, but you are all alone on thinking that a Tang in a 30g is ok. Yes they are kept in fish stores in tanks that size, but stay there a couple weeks a most where they either go somewhere else or die in the store. I wonder how many more would live if they were kept in bigger tanks. The logic of a Tang being small so it is ok until it grows is flawed. Tangs swim a LOT in the ocean. Whether big or small. Put one with no room to roam and it gets stressed. My brother in law had a Yellow Tang in a 55 that was less than 2 inches. The poor thing paced all the time until it died a couple months later. Tiger's need large areas to live in too. Do you think a 200 lb Tiger needs less than an 800 lb one? How about a dog? Would you keep a puppy in a closet until it got bigger? I feel it is a bad idea to encourage new ones in the hobby to push the limits. They are usually so excited and under informed that they will make bad choices anyway. We all did when we started. It is our responsibility as experienced hobbyists to encourage patience, restraint, and proper methodology. That is not to say that we don't learn new methods or ways of keeping these animals. But something like big fish in a small tank will never change.

[wizardx322]

nicely put timfish and actualy my blue tang is like 1 in lol and my yello is 2 in prob just pic make them look bigger. like when people are on tv they gain 10 lbs lol

but as i said earlier they will be moving to a bigger tank. i understand what everyone is saying and its always going to be like this everyone has there way of doing things.

Edited August 23, 2010 by wizardx322

[stoneroller]

What he said... believe it. When I read your OP, I said, here comes disaster. One month is a young tank regardless of what source of bacteria you start with, it has not cycled. It is in a very vulnerable stage where one addition or undetected death can be the tipping point. I'd reduce the bioload immediately and take it much more slowly. I wouldn't wait until a fish starts looking bad or you detect "signs". In fact, if someone asked me to keep sick fish in my tank, I'd say, not a chance. Not that I'm not a nice guy but it's just too much risk to my investment.

Second, those brittle starts are valuable assets to your tank. They will search for and eat detritus. Let them be... PS. A harlequin is not a good choice for such a young tank (and IMO many other tanks); the fact being that they are messy eaters and require "large" starfish to thrive. Just don't go there please. For future reference, my Hoven's wrasse loves those little brittle stars, now if I can get him to eat those pesky Asterina.

Good luck. Only bad things happen fast in this hobby.

[wizardx322]

What he said... believe it. When I read your OP, I said, here comes disaster. One month is a young tank regardless of what source of bacteria you start with, it has not cycled. It is in a very vulnerable stage where one addition or undetected death can be the tipping point. I'd reduce the bioload immediately and take it much more slowly. I wouldn't wait until a fish starts looking bad or you detect "signs". In fact, if someone asked me to keep sick fish in my tank, I'd say, not a chance. Not that I'm not a nice guy but it's just too much risk to my investment.

Second, those brittle starts are valuable assets to your tank. They will search for and eat detritus. Let them be... PS. A harlequin is not a good choice for such a young tank (and IMO many other tanks); the fact being that they are messy eaters and require "large" starfish to thrive. Just don't go there please. For future reference, my Hoven's wrasse loves those little brittle stars, now if I can get him to eat those pesky Asterina.

Good luck. Only bad things happen fast in this hobby.

didn't know the wrass would eat them and i decided to not get the harlequin

[Brooks]

Sorry Tim, but you are all alone on thinking that a Tang in a 30g is ok. Yes they are kept in fish stores in tanks that size, but stay there a couple weeks a most where they either go somewhere else or die in the store. I wonder how many more would live if they were kept in bigger tanks. The logic of a Tang being small so it is ok until it grows is flawed. Tangs swim a LOT in the ocean. Whether big or small. Put one with no room to roam and it gets stressed. My brother in law had a Yellow Tang in a 55 that was less than 2 inches. The poor thing paced all the time until it died a couple months later. Tiger's need large areas to live in too. Do you think a 200 lb Tiger needs less than an 800 lb one? How about a dog? Would you keep a puppy in a closet until it got bigger? I feel it is a bad idea to encourage new ones in the hobby to push the limits. They are usually so excited and under informed that they will make bad choices anyway. We all did when we started. It is our responsibility as experienced hobbyists to encourage patience, restraint, and proper methodology. That is not to say that we don't learn new methods or ways of keeping these animals. But something like big fish in a small tank will never change.

110% agree with this.... don't believe anyone could've said it better.