CO2 scrubber - raise (and maintain) your ph for less than $50

[+mcallahan]

Any data yet on how long it lasts? I live in the DFW area and run into the same issue during the summer.

2 weeks is what I've been getting out of my cartridges.

[John Simon]

2 weeks is what I've been getting out of my cartridges.

Thanks, setting my C02 scrubber up tomorrow using BRS canister and sodasorb media. I will post results.

[+mcallahan]

John-

where did you get your media?

[subsea]

Your aquarium controller is causing all these problems. Without that, you would be blissfully ignorant.

Here is an interesting experiment I would do, although you may not be willing. Turn off the pump to your CO2 scrubber tonight and see if it goes back down. Otherwise, it may have been something else you did in the process. Maybe just getting more aeration was enough? It is possible (although unlikely) that just running water through an empty cannister might change things enough to make a difference. You are talking about a relatively small swing in Ph.

You hit the nail on the head. pH swings are a normal part of the ocean enviroment. The logic behind a reverse photoperiod was to undo what happens during photosynthesis. Like most everything else, it is to what degree does the pH swing. Delbeek and Sprung addressed this issue in "Reef Aquarium" Volumn 3. Use a surface skimmer in main display and cascade water to a lower level. Without any extra ordinary devices, oxygen is added and carbon dioxide is removed.

I choose to be blissfully ignorant.

Patrick

[John Simon]

John-

where did you get your media?

5 gallon pail for $121.77 US (3.27 per pound), bought through MedexSupply.com since they have free shipping. After I ordered it I spoke with some friends and family who do techincal diving and apparently I can get it cheaper locally. Will post cheaper prices once I find them.

[+mcallahan]

You hit the nail on the head. pH swings are a normal part of the ocean enviroment. The logic behind a reverse photoperiod was to undo what happens during photosynthesis. Like most everything else, it is to what degree does the pH swing. Delbeek and Sprung addressed this issue in "Reef Aquarium" Volumn 3. Use a surface skimmer in main display and cascade water to a lower level. Without any extra ordinary devices, oxygen is added and carbon dioxide is removed.

I choose to be blissfully ignorant.

Patrick

I'm not worried about the swings, I'm worried that this summer pH was hanging around 7.75-7.9 and my SPS were bleaching out left and right. The scrubber has fixed the low pH issue, and the swing of .15/day is still there, which isn't a big deal

[John Simon]

You hit the nail on the head. pH swings are a normal part of the ocean enviroment. The logic behind a reverse photoperiod was to undo what happens during photosynthesis. Like most everything else, it is to what degree does the pH swing. Delbeek and Sprung addressed this issue in "Reef Aquarium" Volumn 3. Use a surface skimmer in main display and cascade water to a lower level. Without any extra ordinary devices, oxygen is added and carbon dioxide is removed.

I choose to be blissfully ignorant.

Patrick

(this is a long response but feel it is necessary to explain the history behind my use of a CO2 scrubber)

It isn't an issue of pH swings it boils down to an issue with indoor air quality. Here is my background in this. My previous house was an older style construction and as such it was at best drafty but my tank always maintaned a nice pH range, around 8.25 during the day and 8.10 at night. Move forward 5 years and I move the tank into my new "Energy Star" home. At first everything is great as my heating/cooling bills are around the same price as my old house even though the new house is 3 times larger. But I start to notice the pH on my tank is on the lower end of things, between 7.8-8.0. All the same equipment, same coral, same fish, same pumps etc etc. Nothing really seems worse for the wear as all my SPS/LPS is growing so I ignore it. Then after being in the house for around a year we throw a big party and have ~30 guests. Towards the end of the party I notice the pH has dropped to around 7.6. My first throught is the probe has to be out of calibration so I break out he calibration fluid and after all that the pH is still low. It is late and I figure I will check into it in the morning but before retiring for the night I open a window. The next morning the pH is back around 7.9. So I check the datalog and the pH stared going down when the first guests arrived and started going up once the windows were opened. After doing some research I come across articles talking about indoor air quality in newer homes and slightly higher CO2 levels. Just to make sure I did a test where I aerated tank water outside and inside the house. The water aerated outside had a higher pH then the same sized sample aerated inside. This brings us to where I am today if I have a window cracked and fresh air coming in the tanks pH is fine. If the house is locked down with windows closed and all 4 people home the pH is lower then normal. So my goal is to help prevent my indoor air quality from effecting my reef. So until I replace my AC and add in a energy recovering ventilator I will use a CO2 scrubber.

Edited December 2, 2009 by John Simon

[subsea]

John,

You have made a good point about indoor air quality. Humans living in homes should take note of these points. Anyone involved in fish aquaculture indoors knows it is important to add oxygen and remove carbondioxide. Even outdoors with intensive fish aquaculture, it becomes necessary to add oxygen and remove carbon dioxde.

Patrick

[doktorstick]

So... more energy efficient house, the more indoor plants. AMIRITE?

[John Simon]

So... more energy efficient house, the more indoor plants. AMIRITE?

Studies by NASA recommend 15-18 plants per 1800sq/ft in 6-8 inch or larger pots. Starts to sound like a whole other hobby

http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h110Indoorair.html

[John Simon]

Here is a photo of my roughed in setup. I replaced the air control valve on my EV-240 with a 3/8" NPT to 1/2" quick connect fitting and ran some 1/2" tubing to the BRS canister (I used the 10 inch canister with 1/2" ports). The 1/2" tubing is then connected to the OUT port on the canister and the old air control ball valve is on the IN port (tape on there to hold it tight until the sealant cures and also will straighten things out and build a edge for it later this weekend.). The canister is full of around 1.25lbs of Sodasorb color changing media. (sorry I am a horrible photographer)

Edited December 4, 2009 by John Simon

[+mcallahan]

Hmmm..I saw a lot bigger pH increase once I moved it out of my stand and into the fresh air of the room.

[GKarshens]

Correct me if I am wrong but all this is is a filter for the air being sucked into your skimmer right? It doesn't actually circulate any tank water through it does it? So in reality it is scrubbing the air in the stand or the room you have it in not the CO2 levels in your tank.

[doktorstick]

And I have 0. And in an EnergyStar house built in 2008. Yowza.

[+mcallahan]

Correct me if I am wrong but all this is is a filter for the air being sucked into your skimmer right? It doesn't actually circulate any tank water through it does it? So in reality it is scrubbing the air in the stand or the room you have it in not the CO2 levels in your tank.

[+mcallahan]

Gabe, you are right it removes CO2 from the incoming air thru your skimmer which raises your pH.

I've also seen benefit from opening the window next to my tank lowering the co2 in the air in my house, but now that it's colder, that option is out!

[Reybeast]

The jury is still out for me and my scrubber. I'm really tempted to put a 1/4 inch hole in the wall and run an air tube into the space where my ac blower unit resides since there is a vent pipe in there for the gas water heater that goes out to thru the roof.

[John Simon]

@mcallahan

Was going to try inside the stand first and the next run of media will be outside the stand. So far pH is around the same as having all the windows open (8.1-8.25) even though they have all been closed all week (it is in the 30's this week).

@doktorstick

Guess your mileage may vary on Energy Star homes, we have about ~10 houseplants all over the house. All I can say is there is a higher concentration of CO2 in the house when the windows are closed. Who knows maybe the reef tank itself consumes a lot of O2, I do have a 6 foot tank with a 6 inch DSB.

@GKarshens

The goal is to scrub the C02 from the air that would normally be mixed with tank water in the skimmer. So there is still indoor air being mixed in the overflows and at other air/water interfaces.

[+mcallahan]

Rey-

Send me your pics man!

[John Simon]

The jury is still out for me and my scrubber. I'm really tempted to put a 1/4 inch hole in the wall and run an air tube into the space where my ac blower unit resides since there is a vent pipe in there for the gas water heater that goes out to thru the roof.

Frankly I would go with the hole in the wall to the outside before I would do a scrubber. Fresh air is ALWAYS going to be better then anything you can clean. Unfortunatly I did my tank as a room divder on the first floor. So I don't have any easy access to run a hose to the outside. And like I said before the scrubber is stopgap for me until I can go ahead and put in a energy recovering ventilator for the whole house.

[Reybeast]

I'm sorry, thought I had sent them, here they are. I used a vaccum hose barbed adapter to join refrigerator water tubing to the skimmer intake line.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Reybeast

[GKarshens]

Ok that is what I thought. I would agree if the possibility of running the intake tube to outside air is there, that would be the better option. I would think even just running it out of your stand would make a difference.

[John Simon]

Ok that is what I thought. I would agree if the possibility of running the intake tube to outside air is there, that would be the better option. I would think even just running it out of your stand would make a difference.

I would think it would really depend on the stand setup. I have specific flow through cooling (active and passive) under my stand. But will be testing that specifically during the next round of media I load into the scrubber to see how it effects things.

[+mcallahan]

I would

think even just running it out of your stand would make a difference.

it did for me. I got another .1 increase when I did that.

[offroadodge]

ok Mark, i took some of the advice here. I have had an hard time keeping my PH above or at 8 . When you 1st started this thread i saw the part about putting the vent tube for the protein skimmer out the window, My results are as follows. B4 my PH would swing from 8.0 during the day to like 7.89 at night. Now with it outside it stays at 8.05-8.11...all the time, day or night. The accuracy of my PH probe is +/- .03. I will defntly be leaving it like this. The KH seems to not swing so much also for the whole week. Everything seems to be more stable. Thanks alot for the advice.