Dustin Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Hey everybody! I'm new to Marine tanks, so I have a silly question pertaining to aquascaping and what rocks can and cannot be used. I live next to a large quarry, so my selection of different natural rocks of all shapes, sizes, thicknesses ect is endless. I'm not planning on going with LR or Coral initially, though I may build up a reef with my next tank. The question I have is whether a thorough soaking (48hrs) scrubbing, bleaching, and de-chorination treatment (let sit for 24hrs) is enough to prepare the rock for the tank? Or does the rock need to be cured? Dustin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barderer Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 As long as you stick to pure limestone you should be ok. I would let it sit in a tub of tap water and let it leech for a few weeks frequently changing the water before using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexKilpatrick Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Even if you aren't doing corals, live rock helps with filtration. You can buy "dead" rock for around $2/lb. Dead rock will become live over time. Ideally you want rock that is light and porous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm just not sure that I have the money or time to commit to maintaining a live rock system. I'm new to saltwater fish keeping so please correct me if I'm wrong. But I think I have just enough filtration to maintain it. I have 2 Magnum 350 canister filters (Rated to 100gal) , one with the Pro series 60 dual Bio-wheels. And I have a prizm delux protien skimmer (Rated up to 90 gal). So I think the filtration should be able to handle it. But I'm not sure what more it takes to maintain the live rock tank. In addition, I was looking at a juvinile lionfish, and maybe tangs + triggers and from what I understand triggers will pick at liverock and coral right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 BTW, This is the tank as it is set up right now. Though it is going to undergo some drastic aquascaping changes in the next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barderer Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Dustin, you can use live rock no problem, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=668 its what is known as a FOWLR tank. You can use limestone for the majority of your rock, but get a few pieces of real porous live rock to seed your bacteria and bio diversity. Then your limestone rock will become "semi-live" rock over time. I say this because the limestone rock will only really have good bacteria on the surface as it is so dense. You can make the lime stone rock better by drilling holes in it. Put lots of little holes in the back of it with a masinary bit. Remember, don't add your fish all at once. Edited October 19, 2009 by barderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbnj Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) The Red Sea Prizm skimmer is pretty much worthless on anything over 20g. Your next investment should be a good skimmer, especially if you are not using true live rock. Live rock is the best saltwater investment one can make, in my opinion. Don't learn the hard way, i.e., after you've lost hundreds of dollars in fish. If money's an issue, keep an eye open for deals when people tear down their tanks. I just bought 120 lbs of high quality live rock for $1 lb! Canister filters and other mechanical filters just seem good at "polishing" the water. Just my opinion. Good luck! Edited October 19, 2009 by pbnj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarathustra2 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I would really reccomend going over to Prof's to pick up some "dead" rock for the majority of your base rock, then add 10# or so of live rock to seed it. Limestone, even the good texas "holey" rock sets the wrong PH for a marine tank. I know quite a few people who have had to buffer the heck out of thier systems due to using limestone as a base rock. Using "dead" rock is a really economical way to get all the benefits of LR without a lot of the cost. This also sets the base for your biological nitrogen cycle filtration system. Also it has the wonderful property of helping to buffer your PH to the right levels while adding in CA, MG and various other trace elements. I know it seems like a heavy cost at the outset but it really is worth it. Leave the limestone for your Cichlid tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Canister filters are a breading ground for nitrates and phosphates, if you are going to run them remove everything inside of them and only run carbon in them. They really don't have a place in saltwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 I would really recommend going over to Prof's to pick up some "dead" rock for the majority of your base rock I'd love to Zarathustra2, but unfortunitly I'm in Chicago, so its not as quick of a trip haha. I'm using this forum because I hear that its very good from a few guys up here and there isnt anything else available. : ( Either way all of this Leeching stuff has me a little spooked so I'm going to pick up some dead rock from Old Town Aquarium; Its a place up here near my house. Very pricey, but very high quality and very knowledgeable. When choosing live rock, is it important to match the live rock with the fish ie Volitan Lionfish with fiji(pacific) live rock. As for the canister filters, It came with the magnum and a fluval 404 but I haven't been able to repair the fluval. I'm only running carbon in the canisters though (except during tank cleaning, when I run the microbe) what would be a better option for filtration? I was planning on adding fish in about two weeks. If I start augmenting the tank with live rock, could I add small amounts of live rock little by little in correspondence with the fish? So for example 10-15 lb of dead rock and 2-5lb of live rock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Regarding your question about adding live rock, you don't want to add any substantial amount after your initial setup because die-off from the live rock can cause your tank to cycle again which can be very hard on your fish. Small additions shouldn't hurt if you have a large tank (50 gallon +), though you'd be better to cure them in a separate container for a few weeks before adding them. You'll want to look up "curing live rock" if you're unfamiliar with the process. This also lets you look for stragglers and hitch-hikers. I would add as much live rock as you can at the start, deal with the cycle, and then enjoy. I've never heard of a "need" to match live rock from the area that the fish originates, especially for cultured fish that have never been in the wild. Certain fish definitely like certain characteristics of rock but that's more down to the individual piece that the origination point of the rock. For example, my flame hawks love tons of holes to hide and peek from, but they have no clue that some of my rock is fiji, some of it is texas holey limestone, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Bulk Reef Supply has dry rock and it is not that expensive. They are not that far from you up there. You should look into them, good products good prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexKilpatrick Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Just curious, why are you on the Austin Reef Forum if you are in Chicago? You are certainly welcome, but I always wonder why people do this. Is it because the "national" forums are too big? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eckreef Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 +1 on dry rock from BRS. I used this in my tank and it is extremely porous and light weight with interesting shapes. After one month it already has a great start to looking like LR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Bulk Reef Supply has dry rock and it is not that expensive. They are not that far from you up there. You should look into them, good products good prices. Thanks Muddybluewaters I actually might head up their way to visit a friend in a few days. Maybe I could stop by and get out of paying shipping haha! Just curious, why are you on the Austin Reef Forum if you are in Chicago? You are certainly welcome, but I always wonder why people do this. Is it because the "national" forums are too big? That's part of it. Traditionally I find that there's a lot less wasted time with people who think they know what they're talking about and obnoxious levels of posts. Plus with a smaller forum, you can meet more people and establish a lasting contact past just one odd post from time to time; people you can trust. I dunno. Its a combination of more personal and more accurate. Plus this forum came highly recommended from some guys I know farther up north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarathustra2 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 +1 (again) on the BRS order idea. I was also assuming that you were talking about texas holey rock (limestone) for filling out your aquarium. Most other types of limestone can have heavy minerals that can leech into salt water and poison your livestock in the longterm. Unless it is "known good" rock then you should really avoid limestone for any aquarium. As far as live rock mix, I just set up my 90 G with ~100Lb of dead rock and 20Lb of live rock from a lot of different sources. There is no need to match the LR with the fish/inverts you are keeping. I do like a selection of LR from different places to encourage biodiversity but not all agree on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 +1 (again) on the BRS order idea. I was also assuming that you were talking about texas holey rock (limestone) for filling out your aquarium. Most other types of limestone can have heavy minerals that can leech into salt water and poison your livestock in the longterm. Unless it is "known good" rock then you should really avoid limestone for any aquarium. I've since navigated away from the Limestone idea. And thanks for the feed back on BRS I just checked the website and it looks pretty cool! I'm going to check out one store that's about 20 miles from me. And if that doesn't work out, I'm going to check BRS during my trip. I'll post pictures when I have the tank all finished! Thank You again everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Nevermind shopping around. Read some reviews about the Pukani from BRS, + the price. I know what I'm getting haha. Any body have experience with Pukani? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Hey Everybody! Just finally got all of the dry rock in and the tank is finally clearing! dustinmusial.info/fishvid.html to see the before and after. BRS was great, ordered the pukani, which was so pretty and remarkably porus. On top of it, I got the cheapest shipping available and the order was on my porch is less than two days! Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Leave feed back and tell me what you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarathustra2 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 What ratio of live rock to dead rock are you using? I love the rock wall. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Looks good, I am glad the BRS deal worked out for you. I have been getting stuff from them every couple weeks it seems. I could only imagine if I was closer to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Thanks guys! I'm glad that you like the rock wall! I'm using .5 per gallon for right now beacause the pukani is very porous. It will be a little more once the live rock is in. I'm going to seed it with Bali rock from my LFS. I haven't gone with any more yet because I want have a larger protein skimmer. I'm going to get a larger one closer to Christmas, especially if I get the saddle puffer. Any advice on the rock wall? good powerful Protien skimmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispar Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 glad you finally got some good rock in the tank. I would seriously reconsider adding any fish until you get some LIVE rock in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I like the Octopus skimmers. They are very good and priced right. I would buy the NWB 150. It should handle anything you can put in the tank. I have 1 in my sump the foot print is about 12"x 10" but worth it if you can make the room. If you want to start your cycle now just drop a shrimp from the grocery store in the tank. wait until it starts to break down and remove it. This will get the process started even before you get some live rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 The tank is already almost finished with its cycle. I have damsels in there who have been in there for about 5 weeks now & I used a bio additive called bacter vital. I'm going to do a water sample Tuesday before I add the last dose of bacter vital and see where the tank is at. And as far as adding the live rock before the fish, I'm only going to be adding 5lb at a time. I'm trying to seed the rest of the dry rock and I don't want to send the system into shock and kill off the live rock. As far as bulding the sump goes, understand that sumps can be expensive. I have a 10gal and a 29gal glass tank at my parents house. Could I use that instead of purchasing a new sump? and why do the octopus skimmers have to be sump mounted? Whats the appeal to the sump over the HOT models. (As I said earlier, I have a HOT Pryzm delux rated to 90gal, but I understand thats not going to be enough for a 75 gal tank) And I can still run hoses over the back instead of drilling holes in the glass right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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