HELP! alage

[Christian]

O ok thanks

[caferacermike]

I wanted to add 2 points to what Zarathustra mentioned.

Point 1 is that for the people that believe in "3 days of darkness" you must do heavy and frequent water changes both during and after the lights out time. As the algae dies off it will dissolve into the water as "excess nutrients". Basically you create more food for the algae when the lights do come back on. This is detrimental and completely against why you turned the lights off to begin with. This is one of the reasons that as he stated "While you can reduce your light for a few days as a short term fix it cannot fix the issue in the long term."

Point 2 is that you can add critters to your tank such as snails, hermits, and blennies to eat algae, keep in mind that for every critter you add to the tank, you also add "bio-load" to the tank. Meaning that as they eat your algae they also produce waste. You must be able to immediately remove this waste via heavy skimming or frequent small water changes. Some would recommend 2g a day for weeks to combat algae. This actually is better than a once a week 10g water change as you can remove food from the algae on a daily basis thus helping to starve it off everyday instead of for a few days once a week. And as was said above, as the algae dies off, it can feed existing algae thus making your problem worse than it was. I guess what I'm getting on about is that I would be very careful in adding any additional creatures at this point to try to "control" the algae since you are not removing the cause and could actually set up your tank for an even bigger outbreak in the future.

If it was me, and I've battled and won this fight before: Based upon the 55g tank.

I would make up about 50g of clean seawater a week in a large Brute can, place a powerhead in the bottom to keep it in motion. Everyday, about the same time, I would do about a 5g water change in the 55g tank. Note that I am not against you using your well water for this. If you did this, in theory, your entire tank would be refreshed within a week with all new water and your TDS would be very low and under control. Of course it is not that simple as you will be diluting the new water with the old and your critters will still be producing waste. However after a month of doing this you will see results.

I would do a larger 20g water change once a week. I would blow all the rocks with a powerhead or turkey baster to suspend all that trapped detritus in the water and then drain it off removing all that waste.

I would make sure I use quality bulbs in 12K and above and make sure they are not old enough to shift their spectrum. I would prefer a 14K and above to really slow algae growth as there is even less yellow and red in a 14K. PC's and T5's seem to be rated for about a year before they begin to lose intensity and begin to shift. Halides are said to need replacement in as little as 8 months.

I would cut back on my feedings to almost nothing. Fish are hardy and our tanks are actually quite bountiful in small worms, pods, and such. Many fish will begin to eat algae when no other foods are offered, and much more like their real life on the reef where most fish are herbivores and protein rich foods are scarce.

I would make sure I had a good skimmer running correctly and kept clean of waste upon the "foam tower", or "neck" of the collection cup. Throw any prizm brand skimmers in the trash.

If possible run filter socks. Make them yourself. The material is cheap at the fabric shops and it takes only a minute with a sewing machine. Homemade seem to be better anyways as you can make them so they work with your system, IE: straps versus plastic rings. Put a 1/2 cup of carbon or ferric oxide in the sock and place it under your suction line in your sump so all the water must pass through it. Remove sock, replace with a fresh sock and fresh media every 4 days. Make about 6 socks so that you only need to wash them all once a month. Store used socks in a 5g bucket filled halfway with water to prevent them from rotting and smelling bad.

Make sure you have good flow through the tank. If you have stagnant water then your wastes and detritus will sink and pollute the tank. If you have adequate flow, detritus will stay suspended in the water column where it can be removed by a skimmer and water changes.

Doing the above should see dramatic results within a month. It may seem like a lot of work but if you can get in a pattern the water change will take about 5 minutes to scoop out 5g of old water and pour in new water, this 5 minutes can come from you not spending as much time feeding. Replacing the filter socks will be a 10 minute, once a week event. This is all feasible within 10 minutes a day of maintenance and 1 hour once a week for mixing water, cleaning the filtration and skimmer. Really simple when you think about it. This way you will starve the algae to death and physically remove it's waste from the tank to prevent another outbreak. And with continued small and frequent water changes I see no reason to worry about using well water. Same can be said about tap water. Problem is that most people only want to do one large water change once a month or even once every 2 months. When you use tap water for this type of water change then you are adding back all these nutrients to the tank as you try to remove them. That is why people find RO/DI such a beneficial tool. It helps us in our laziness. You remove a lot of waste and add nothing back. With frequent small water changes you remove a lot of waste but only add a small, manageable, amount back. Sure you cannot wait as long before the next water change but again it is a manageable approach to reef husbandry. The salt will get expensive but a 5g bucket would last about a month and after a month you could really scale back to doing a 5g change every 3 days and a good 20g water change every 2 weeks to prevent the algae from growing back.

I hope this helps from someone that lost their reef and love for the hobby to a GHA outbreak.

Had to edit for a "no space" run on typing.

Edited September 20, 2009 by caferacermike

[Christian]

so the corals in my tank that need light what do I do about them? when I turn off the light for 3 days? I'll post some pick of the tank later tonight so y'all can see the tanks. the 55 and the 29.

[+Razor]

Thanks for that info caferacermike. I really liked how you detailed out the importance of keeping the detritis suspended. I have excellent water flow in my tank, I just find that the detritis gets stuck on the rock and in the crevices between the rock and substrate. So I'm still working on getting the power heads turned just right.

I have a lawnmower blenny and I am very pleased with him! He picks and eats that green hair algae all day long. The only problem I have with him is he is a very big source of my detris I have to suck out each day with my large turkey baster. None the less he is very entertaining and works hard so he's earned his keep.

Lights being out for a few days won't hurt the corals. Sometimes they'll go for days without sunlight in ocean during hurricane season.

You might think about purchasing a TDS meter. I know they have them at RCA because I've seen then with the supplements. They're about $20.00. I test my water all the time with it. Our city water is usually 340 ppm, water filtered through our refrigerator is about 150 ppm, water filtered through our 1 gallon britta pitcher is about 75-100 ppm, and water filter through my 5 stage RO/DI unit is 0 ppm.

[muddybluewater]

On what mike said, I have never heard of cuc being counted when figuring bio load. I thought it was figured on the based on the fish. Also your tds will never be low in saltwater. Well water will start off with a tds of 350-400 (this is just an estimate) and then you dissolve salt into it making the tds raise even more.

[subsea]

Christian,

Stick with the well water. I have been using well water on my reef propagatiob system for more than 15 years. With respect to the Trinity Aquifier, which underlies the Ewwards Aquifier, you are right about the high mineral content of calcium, magnisium and in my case sulfate. Due to the ordor of sulfate, I use RO for drinking and ice maker. For reef aquarium and irrigation I use unfiltered well water. It is the best thing since sliced bread.

Nutriant balance is always critical. If you choose to use a protein skimmer for nutriant removal so be it. I have chosen to get rig of all my protein skimmers more than 10 years ago. I rather do nutriant cycling with multiple nutriant pathways. Without knowing many details of your system, may I suggest trying a "**** Boyd" product called "Chemi-Pure. It is a nutriant scavenging product. If you want to understand your sandbed dynamics better you must realize that both oxidation and reduction chemistry go on in the same sandbed. Between the two extreme zones is an area of reduced oxygen called the "faculative zone". To understand this process better, you should go to a waste water treatment text. In particular, you will find the heroes for some of this chemistry in "oxidation ponds". Sorry to get technical on you'll, but you did ask some pointed questions. Just thought I would make a stab at answering some of the questions.

Have a bodacious day,

Paat C

[muddybluewater]

I can not find anyone on any forums that say to use well water. They all say stay away from it. I saw several that say not to use distilled water because of the possibility of copper coils used in the stills. The consensus in the hobby is to use ro/di water. I believe in it and would not recommend anything else. When you set up a reef you have too much invested in it to take a chance with anything else. You can buy a 6 stage ro/di unit online for around $100. It will pay for it's self in a few months in just the savings in salt.

[Christian]

ok well here is a pic f my 29g bio-cube. and the same thing is covering the 55g tank. I have had the lights out for 2 days now so I have one more day.

[caferacermike]

Yep that's what took out my tank.

I bet you won't be super impressed with the "lights out" method. I left my lights off for 3 months after the "melt down". I was only keeping a small frog fish since everything died and I no longer had any corals. 3 months later, just as much algae as when I turned them off.

If you aren't doing water changes, you aren't removing the waste that feeds the algae and it will come right back.

[Zarathustra2]

+ however many to caferacermike. You also will want a good clean up crew to wipe out the living plants. Lotsa water changes, lots of nutrient export ect.

[subsea]

It is all about balance. With respect to the excessive hair algae that you have, get a Rabbit. Even though your tank is small, get a small Rabbit Fish. I saw one today at Fishey Business. It is a very attractive black and yellow fish. The venom in its dorsal fin is no worse than a catfish or a Lionfish.

With respect to the comment about no forum recommending well water for reef aquariums, so what. I go with pragmatic results. I will put my 30 years of marine fish keeping against the forum anyday. In addition to my Marine Engineering degree, I have the highest waste water treatment certification in the country. I am qualified to consult with municipalities to stir ****. I only find it interesting to hear the wisdom of the day in these forums. As Solomon said in Ecclesiastes, "There is nothing new under the sun".

Have a blessed day, because it is a choice.

Pat C.

[cmanning]

Christian....if you're coming to the meeting this coming Saturday, bring a sample of your water and we run a test for phosphates and nitrates.

[Christian]

I'm not going to the meeting and I'm not sure why I should get a Rabbit Fish?

[innate1]

to eat the hair algae.........

[caferacermike]

And produce more waste. Let's treat the problem itself first and then look for quick fixes.

[Christian]

haha I only have 3 fish in the 55g and one in the 29g tanks

[offroadodge]

wow what alot of responses, the water IS WHAT MAKES IT GROW!!!! Treat the problem at hand 1st. And NOT doing water changes often. RO/DI water will make A night and day difference within weeks.

[Christian]

well I cant pay for ROI water. at least right now.

[Zarathustra2]

Then I would make sure to do lots of well water changes. Normal RO water change is 10% per week. I would probably double or triple that. So depending on fuge size 10-15G on your 55G tank. It should help a lot. You would even be better off doing 3 5G water changes a week. Use a toothbrush tied to the end of a reasonably small siphon (1/4" ID) and scrub off some algae letting the siphon take it out of your tank. I'd guess you would be out of the weeds as it were after a few weeks of this.

[subsea]

I'm not going to the meeting and I'm not sure why I should get a Rabbit Fish?

In one of your first post on this thread you said you wanted to get a fish to eat the hair algae. What did get a fish mean to you?

[subsea]

so your suggesting I run a skimmer? to remove the hair algae.

I would like to get a fish to eat it or some thing that eats the hair.

Nutriant cycling is part of the balance equation. If you choose to remove nutriants with a protein skimmer then you have replaced "cycle with remove". What part of "I would like to get a fish to eat it or some thing that eats the hair" did you mean?

Christian, you really need to decide on which style of reefkeeping husbandry that you are going to use. While it is true to an extent that some styles complement each other. More often than not. different styles unJust because a set of snails dieddermind each other. Decide which style you will use and stick to it. Do not flip flop in the middle of the aging process of your reef system. One year is not very old to expect stability. The one picture which I saw of your tank did not look like a crisies of death and distruction. Martin Moe once said about reef aquariums "It is not rocket science / It is more complicated". Quite stressing about a little hair algae. Let the little people take care of it.

Learn to live without the stress.

Pat Castille

[Zarathustra2]

need to decide on which style of reefkeeping husbandry that you are going to use. While it is true to an extent that some styles complement each other. More often than not. different styles unJust because a set of snails dieddermind each other. Decide which style you will use and stick to it. Do not flip flop in the middle of the aging process of your reef system.

+1 to this. The best advice i ever got with reefkeeping was to find a mentor. Follow that mentor's advice to the exclusion of others until you get to the point of understanding why s/he does what s/he does. Then once you understand you can experiment and develop your own style.

Christian, for your problem here there are lots of ways to fix it. It all comes down to reducing nutrients somehow. Whether you want to tie them up within certian creatures (getting a Lawnmower blenny or rabbit fish), skimming the heck out of it, using a refugium to remove nutrients through vegetative removal, scrubbing it and water change, doing huge water changes... whatever. You need to reduce nutrients.

I personally think that you really really need to do more water changes. One of the Mantra's to this hobby is "The solution to pollution is dilution." Water changes are the foundation of this hobby. RO/DI water is reccomended because you are not adding any nutrients in with the water. Your well water can work but you will need to be doing more changes thank would be reccomended with RO/DI. This is due to the nutrients (silicates, phosphates, nitrates) that are inherint with using non ro/di water. You will also want to have a more robust filtering mechanism. I would personally have a very large refugium. The nutrients that nuisance algae use are the same ones that macro algae use. However, past the water changes you need to figure out what your style of reefkeeping is.

[Christian]

well I don't have a mentor to watch what he/she does I started in the hobby about 5 years ago because I like it. and want to go into marine Biology some day. And study anemones and micro animals that live in the tanks/ oceans. So i com on here for help because I don't have a lot of time to go up to the LFS for there help. I can do more water changes and add fish to my tank to remove the algae.

I don't want to use RO/DI water for my tanks because the only thing that is in my well water is a high contraction of calcium, there is nothing eels at all because we have our water going through a softener witch removes a lot of chemicals. I'm going to do a 10-15 gallon water change tonight and see what happens to my 55g tank right now there is no more algae on the glass any more so that's good. the 29g tank looks the same as it did be for so I'll do like a 10g change to it.

Also what do you mean by "on which style of reefkeeping husbandry that you are going to use?"

[subsea]

well I don't have a mentor to watch what he/she does I started in the hobby about 5 years ago because I like it. and want to go into marine Biology some day. And study anemones and micro animals that live in the tanks/ oceans. So i com on here for help because I don't have a lot of time to go up to the LFS for there help. I can do more water changes and add fish to my tank to remove the algae.

I don't want to use RO/DI water for my tanks because the only thing that is in my well water is a high contraction of calcium, there is nothing eels at all because we have our water going through a softener witch removes a lot of chemicals. I'm going to do a 10-15 gallon water change tonight and see what happens to my 55g tank right now there is no more algae on the glass any more so that's good. the 29g tank looks the same as it did be for so I'll do like a 10g change to it.

Also what do you mean by "on which style of reefkeeping husbandry that you are going to use?"

[/quote

Christian,

Between Zara and I, you have an opportunity to go natural. It has taken me 30 years to evolve to where i am now. I live in Hays County about 15 minutes from Buda. Come on over to my house and I will show you how natural reef tank work and look. Yes, I have some hair algae and the "little people" eat it. The fish eat the pods. The bacteria and micro-inverts eat the fish poop and reproduce to feed corals and inverts. Do not expect advice from LFS to be free. Their husbandry will have to include technology which means they will sell you a gadget. It ain't necessary, if you have patience. If it needs to clean up right away and if you want it to look so clean that it is "squeeky clean" then do not do natural. While Anthony Calfo and I agree on most points, he likes protein skimmers. Erick Boreman does not particularly like protein skimmers. The only reason that Erick uses skimmers is that his system is on automatic as he is away more often then he is at home. May I suggest that you get on the Anthony Calfo forum at Marine Depot. When you find his forum, you will see "reef aquarium husbandry". As I said, come on over to my home and I will show you my display and propagation system outsisde. Because I did not have access to advice and forums when I first started this hobby, I collected my own liabrary. I will leave you with one caution. Will Rogers said, "I believe none of what I hear and only half of what I see".

Take care,

Pat Castille

[offroadodge]

ok, as far as the well water not having anything in it other than calcium, I dont think so. I have a whole house water filtration system (the same thing NASA uses in the shuttle"IONICS") it has a 5 1/2' feet tall media tank with about 6 different filter medias and a tank beside it that houses POTASSIUM to soften the water. And to my surprise the water coming outta the unit still measures 288TDS. So saying that you have a softener and that there is nothing else in the water doesnt sound correct(it may be but hard to believe). I have a 6 stage RODI unit in the house to make all of my water and it has solved all of my problems($130 for a 110gal/day 6 stage RODI unit off of EBAY) and it will solve 90% of your problems in 2-3 months MAX.

This is the whole house filter system

this is the RODI unit