Controller

[jsr]

I am itching to buy an entry level controller for the tank. All I want is something that controls lights, temp, and some additional outlets for fans and such. I don't want to spend too much on this. In your opinion, is the AquaController or Reefkeeper better? It MUST work with IceCap ballast as well. What are some of the other features I would really want to control? I don't have a calcium reactor (drip Kalk w/ ATO) so a Ph probe may not be needed. Am I missing anything? Are they a PITA to program, or do they come ready to use? I have seen the charts that compare different models but I really want some personal feedback on which is better.

James

[caferacermike]

I bought my RKII based upon the fact that the letters are blue. I hope that helps.

But then I went to Kingfish one afternoon to take a better look at the unit as they were the only shops locally selling them and decided it was the unit I wanted. I'm not very good with programming things (I get excited when I figure out how to change the size of the text in a forum) and felt that the RKII was beyond simple to make changes to. Years later I've still not opened the boxes they came in, long story. However I have helped set up many used tanks and the RKII has always been a breeze. A friend bought a tank once with an older octopus 3000 or something like that. The manual was as thick as a phone book and twice as complicated. He ended up just timing how long the lights stayed on for and then picked a time in the afternoon to plug it all back in so that the light was on his schedule. He now uses an RKII on another tank.

[jsr]

Yeah, I was leaning toward the RK2 but was timid of the price. I dont want an overkill controller, but I also dont want to buy a new one a year from now just because I add something. Does anyone know if the RK2 comes with the outlets, or is just the controller? What about the temp probe? This is uncharted waters for me so I dont want to screw myself by buying a $140 controller and having to purchase all the goodies.

[caferacermike]

It comes with the temp probe and I believe 4 outlets on a DC10 strip. Oh yeah the DC10 strip is what sold me. The other controllers use these common X radio outlets that are easy to overpower. The RKII switches on/off directly in the power strip while the other units broadcast a signal through the house. I heard horror stories of people shutting their tanks off when opening the garage door and not knowing about it. The other nice thing about the RKII is that you can upgrade as needed. They offer a much larger and higher amperage power strip if you add a lot of halides or chillers. You can add a PH probe whenever you like.

[chrisfowler99]

RK II had been discontinued and the RK Extreme is twice as much.

[caferacermike]

What about on Ebay?

[jsr]

RK II had been discontinued and the RK Extreme is twice as much.

Marine Depot has them for $270, in stock. Should I jump on this and get it?

[chrisfowler99]

What about on Ebay?

I see a used one up for $182.50, currently.

The new one is the ReefKeeper Elite, not Extreme...I was mistaken.

$270 -vs- $490

Sheesh...

The Elite does come with the PH Probe, it appears, which is a $50 add-on to the II...so $170 difference at that level.

Might be worth it overall...but a steep price to pay to begin with.

[chrisfowler99]

double post...

[jsr]

Yeah, I have issues buying used equipment from people. I would gladly pay more cash if I get a warranty and someone to call if something goes wrong. If someone on ARC was selling for that price I would buy it!

Thanks for the link. I see that controllers really hold their value.

James

[caferacermike]

I believe that the Elite has all the extra high amperage plugs built in. I believe that my total was near $500 for my base unit, 2x expansion kits, and PH probe.

[cmanning]

Controllers which do not have ethernet connection are a PITA IMHO.

Also - for the price they should at a minimum provide a built in webserver interface similar to what the 79.00 DSL router/firewall boxes have on them,

so the end users do not have hell adjusting them via a silly up/down +/- 2-line LED interface.

The only value in the LED or LCD on the controller itself, is perhaps a quick glance as you approach the tank that visually,

everything looks OK. - But, of course a good controller would have emailed your cellphone the instant any parameters went out of

your specified limits, and you would know something was going wrong *before* it's

"too late".

If you are going to pump 100's of dollars into something - make sure it does *save* your thousands in coral livestock.

It should at a minimum,

1.) Have an ethernet port

2.) Provide a web interface that allows you to program it via your home computer via either Firefox, Mozilla, or IE.

3.) Have a feature to automatically email you if any parameter goes beyond a limit you decide or if there is a power failure..

(Temp too high/low, or power failure at the house while you are at work so you can run home and start the genny, PH out of whack indicating your

top-off is going crazy, etc,etc..)

4.) Be able to be powered by a UPS and still detect mains power loss to your other equipment.

5.) Provide dry contact inputs to allow you to extend it to monitor any other devices you add that provide contact close-on-alarm outputs

so these can be tied into the controller, and programming based on these devices status added in at your discretion.

ALL of the brands available are really too high-priced for what they do or don't do..

[caferacermike]

Now see I absolutely wanted to stay away from a controller that needs to be programmed through a PC. I 100% wanted a controller that I could easily walk up to and make a simple change via a +/- button on a LED face. I wanted it to be that simple that anyone can do it. I've just spent 5 hours trying in vain to unlock a cell phone using software that was designed to do it simply. I absolutely do not want to interface my tank's controller to a PC and configure it to broadcast random bits of information into the air. I would absolutely hate the idea of getting a tank meltdown notice while at work, considering it only if I could actually program it to work, as my job would fire me if I told them I had to go home and tend to my tank. Honestly I'd rather not know until I got home.

Oh and I have no idea on Earth what the hell an ethernet port is and how it affects shipping. I've been to Port Aransas a few times. Is it anything like that?

[chrisfowler99]

I want the controller cmanning is describing at the price of the one that caferacermike is describing.

[subsea]

James,

I think like Cindy, with respect to controllers. None are worth what they cost. With respect to lights and pumps there are simple end devices (timers, level controllers, temperature probes) that already control single function events. I am a big believer in the KISS principal (keep it simple). Decide in advance what are critical parameters and get simple solutions. If you want to get a feel for what is out there, go to Aquatic Eco-Systems. They supply equipment for fish hatcheries. See what the commercial market has available.

Pat

[JAY-ROC]

James,

I think like Cindy, with respect to controllers. None are worth what they cost. With respect to lights and pumps there are simple end devices (timers, level controllers, temperature probes) that already control single function events. I am a big believer in the KISS principal (keep it simple). Decide in advance what are critical parameters and get simple solutions. If you want to get a feel for what is out there, go to Aquatic Eco-Systems. They supply equipment for fish hatcheries. See what the commercial market has available.

Pat

I thought that at one time, but then did research on the controllers and bought the reefkeeper 2 and will not go back. I love my reefkeeper and would recomend it to anyone.

[princer7]

I use an Aquacontroller III. A good investment for a large tank and imo worth every penny. It has saved me many times from the tank overheating due to lights, etc. Everything runs much more stable. In what I would have spent on single timers, temperature probes, as well as pH controllers/monitors - the cost is not that unreasonable. And the great thing about it is I can monitor the system from remote if I am away on vacation.

[JAY-ROC]

Now see I absolutely wanted to stay away from a controller that needs to be programmed through a PC. I 100% wanted a controller that I could easily walk up to and make a simple change via a +/- button on a LED face. I wanted it to be that simple that anyone can do it. I've just spent 5 hours trying in vain to unlock a cell phone using software that was designed to do it simply. I absolutely do not want to interface my tank's controller to a PC and configure it to broadcast random bits of information into the air. I would absolutely hate the idea of getting a tank meltdown notice while at work, considering it only if I could actually program it to work, as my job would fire me if I told them I had to go home and tend to my tank. Honestly I'd rather not know until I got home.

Oh and I have no idea on Earth what the hell an ethernet port is and how it affects shipping. I've been to Port Aransas a few times. Is it anything like that?

Mike we have had our dissagreements but I agree with you 100%. I don't bother even trying to link my reefkeeper to my computer, and wouldnt know how if i did want to.

P.S. look no caps

[chrisfowler99]

Just noticed the ReefKeeper Lite...

http://www.digitalaquatics.com/m_product_i...ber=30-0012-001

That might be a solid option.

[+ACampbell]

Controllers which do not have ethernet connection are a PITA IMHO.

Also - for the price they should at a minimum provide a built in webserver interface similar to what the 79.00 DSL router/firewall boxes have on them,

so the end users do not have hell adjusting them via a silly up/down +/- 2-line LED interface.

The only value in the LED or LCD on the controller itself, is perhaps a quick glance as you approach the tank that visually,

everything looks OK. - But, of course a good controller would have emailed your cellphone the instant any parameters went out of

your specified limits, and you would know something was going wrong *before* it's

"too late".

If you are going to pump 100's of dollars into something - make sure it does *save* your thousands in coral livestock.

It should at a minimum,

1.) Have an ethernet port

2.) Provide a web interface that allows you to program it via your home computer via either Firefox, Mozilla, or IE.

3.) Have a feature to automatically email you if any parameter goes beyond a limit you decide or if there is a power failure..

(Temp too high/low, or power failure at the house while you are at work so you can run home and start the genny, PH out of whack indicating your

top-off is going crazy, etc,etc..)

4.) Be able to be powered by a UPS and still detect mains power loss to your other equipment.

5.) Provide dry contact inputs to allow you to extend it to monitor any other devices you add that provide contact close-on-alarm outputs

so these can be tied into the controller, and programming based on these devices status added in at your discretion.

ALL of the brands available are really too high-priced for what they do or don't do..

This is a very well thought out, constructive post. In my opinion the ethernet port is a requirement. The whole point of having a controller is that it is suppose to watch the tank when you cant. Otherwise, couldn't everything be controlled with inexpensive timers?

[caferacermike]

Yes but who wants 10 timers and all the cords necessary for them. Also a bunch of timers cannot control your PH level in your calcium reactor nor can they watch over your chiller/heater with double redundancy. Plus you'll only have "1" timer instead of 3 for your lighting needs. It also sucks if you lose power and have to reset all those timers.

It was a well thought out idea if those are your needs. Everyone's needs will be different. As I don't care much for computer stuff, I still find it difficult to upload pictures from my camera and then add them to a post, I wanted a simple user friendly system and that is exactly what the Reef Keeper gives me.

I'll add this as well, we can all agree that most of us look up to the guys at Kingfish, well they sold me the unit and recommended it based upon what I wanted in a controller. I doubt that they would have sold me junk, not to mention it's what they used to control the tanks in their shop. If you just absolutely cannot live without being notified every minute about what your tank is doing then this might not be the controller for you. If you want an easy to program, easy to interface instantly, easy to adjust, easy to read, and trouble free controller then this is the unit for you.

Research X10 controllers and you'll quickly understand why I refused to choose any unit that uses them to turn my tank appliances on and off. They are beyond universal. They can be overwritten by TV remotes, garage door openers, etc.. To much chance for error. And yes it's been reported several times.

[cmanning]

The idea was not to be notified every minute about the tank - the idea was to ensure that I *do* get notified whenever the GFI trips.

(Anyone running a tank without a GFI breaker - for the sake of saving your own life - find out why you need one).

NOTE: I said "when it trips" not "if". <--because it's *going* to happen.

Fact 1:) Heaters, Pumps and any other devices which are either submerged in water, or are in close proximity thereto do

over time experience degradation of the electical insulation both on the cords, and internally in seals. This fact is not debatable,

and if ignored - will kill you in a most undesirable way. There's nothing like losing control of your muscles in 120 volt water and

knowing you are dying while not being able to move. <-- Take it from a 15 year electrician.. "Don't experience this, OK?"

The only reason I am alive to write this today, is someone was there and saw what was happening to me. and was smart enough

to pry me away from the water with a 2 by 4 while not getting themselves shocked too.

And they did it *before* my heart stopped. (Person who saved me was also an electrician at the time).

So - if you don't have your own personal life saver standing behind you every time you stick your arm down in the tank, then

I am sure you not only know what a GFI is, you probably have one or several of them powering your precious tank.

(Most of the above is for new people - get a GFI.. even for your cheapest nano!)

As for a monitor/controller: If your tank has less than easily replaceable value, - don't bother with a controller/monitor.

They are expensive, and designed to protect expensive investments.

The only tie-breaker in your decision might become "Is it going to save my tank, when the GFI trips?"

versus "how much money will I lose when the GFI *does eventually* trip?"

My controller (I will *not* mention brands here) will call my cell (with a text message via email) *only* if it's in "alarm condition".

This allows me to get to the tank in the driving distance from work, find out which device tripped the GFI, disconnect it, and reset the GFI,

and turn the darned power back on keeping me from coming home to a cold, dead tank.

And yes, it's already payed for itself once during a storm. (GFI didn't trip, but the power company lost power) and since the controller, runs off

the same UPS as my PC and my ethernet, and my DSL modem then they all stayed running long enough to call my cell, and alert me

that the entire house was without power.

This allowed me to drive home and start the portable generator, and at least save my tank, and the food in my refrigerator.

In that instance, it took Perdenales over 6 hours to fix the downed power lines (up in Williamson County) , and I am convinced that the generator, and the controller which alerted me to "get home *now*, somethings wrong" saved my entire system.

If you don't have a lot of money tied up in your system - then no need to worry about this type of thing.

But when you are sitting one day - take inventory of every little frag and fish and total up what they've cost you over the years,

and see exactly how much money you've finally got invested in it.

Then think about losing it all at once, when all it would have taken is one little phone call to save everything....

I will not tell you what brand we got. I am not here to start a this versus that discussion...

But - this is an expensive decision, so I did pipe up in order to help people think about what might be the most important feature

of such an expensive choice as tank monitor/controller.

Many companies which did not include this feature in their previous models are starting to "get the message" and I see them

starting to add this feature. <-- yes it means the device needs access to a phone - whether it's via ethernet, wireless, or serial

it doesn't matter how so much as it does "if". To me - this is the only really critical function of such an extravagant and expensive device.

When something goes out of whack - if I am home when it does it - I am certainly going to take notice and take action...

It's when I am not at home.... I can't fix what I do not know about.

[GKarshens]

I own a RK2 and I have loved it. Like Mike has said it is by far the easiest thing to setup. I would never run a tank without a controller after having one. It gives me much more peace of mind when I am not there. Having said all that I wish it did have the capability that cmanning is describing. I would love to be able to control my lights and other equipment from my iPhone. I would love to know that it could text me if something went wrong.

I guess what it really comes down to is what are you looking to get out of your controller. If you want an easy to use and cheaper controller the RK is the way to go. If you want all the bells and whistles and have the cash, get something nicer. Either way get something. I have had too many timers fail and they won't turn your lights off at a set temp for you to keep you from nuking your tank when your fans or chiller don't come on for some reason. This happened to me twice by the way and the RK2 saved my tank.

[Entropy]

I have an RK II. I probably wouldn't have bought new at the $300 price (shipped), but I picked mine up for $150 and feel it is well worth that. I use it to control my light cycle, temp, and my pumps. Yes, it is a basically glorified timer, but it is digital, has battery backup, and is extremely easy to program, plus it has overtemp safeties which timers do not. The pH probe is just a added perk (which I am currenlty not using since my probe went bad). I think having the controller send an email would be a great add on feature, but I don't really have a computer to spare, or want to leave one running 24/7 to accomplish this, and in most case there would really be nothing I could do with the information that my RK II isn't already going to do (namely overtemp protection). I would definately keep and eye out for used RKII. I just sold one a couple of weeks ago for $150 so they are out there. The only parts that I have seen go bad are the pH probe (which goes bad no matter what over time), and the backlighting.

I guess the more elaborate (valuable) your setup the more you could justify in spending on a controller, but with my tank I just cannot justify it. Then again if my tank crashes I will be out about $200 in fish and a silly anenome so it really isn't the end of the world. If I had a tank like Cindy's I would probably fee different.

[chrisfowler99]

My major problem with this is going to be when the computer geek inside starts planning what it can do and starts arguing with the checkbook and wants the full blown system, when a used RKII or an RK Lite could cover what I need...