Preferred Sea Salt Mix?

[reefman]

I have less than a third of a bucket of the Oceanic Sea Salt mix left that I purchased with the first tank.

Since I'm going to put getting the RO/DI unit up a running as the first priority now, I will be finishing off the sea salt mix a lot faster (won't be running to AA all the time to get top off and salt water from them).

I've been trying to figure out what brand would be best, but as usual its confusing as ever. I know Tropic Marin is more expensive, but does that make it better?

I would appreciate your recommendations.

Stephen

[Kingfish]

Eric Borneman's study on reef salts was not very conclusive, and the experimental design is not well suited to aquariums that contain live rock. It would take to long to sum it all up, so is are some superficial conclusions that i drew from the presentation.

Instant ocean is the lowest quality mix of the study group having produced the least coral growth and most cyano bacteria.

Oceanic is average to good all around

Tropic marin ranked very high, having good growth and the least amount of algae.

Tropic marin pro (to my understanding) is reserved for those aquarists that use calcium reactors, yet maintain a high and unbalanced borate alkalinity (really high Kh).

According to the Tropic marin rep. "just because pro is more expensive doesn't mean that you need it, if you don't know exactly why you need pro, then don't use it." His words not mine.

[caferacermike]

Brian I believe you are more fluent in Kent than SeaChem but what are your (and anyone elses) opinions on Seachem reef salt? I never really did water changes on my tank for about 8 months, well ok I never did a single one. I never ever had a spot of algae or cyano. It was unreal. Recently when I upped my lighting to 500w metal halides I bought SeaChem reef salt, a new 20g trash can, a 3/4 bulkhead, a 3/4" pvc hose spigot some new vinyl tubing and an extra Seio M620. Basically I made myself a super sweet and easy salt water changing kit. Well after a month of doing 10g water changes a week, I've begun seeing a lot of brown algae and some spotty cyano.

Thoughts on that as you mentioned some salts showed these same signs. I have 400 micro sized hermits enroute to help any sort of real algae breakout. Also I have quit feeding my tank altogether to try and starve it out. Water params are all good, I've been checking them 3 times a week. Corals have never grown more or polypped as large. My new Efflo added about a 1/4" all the way around in 2 weeks as was pointed out by friends that have known the coral.

As long as there is a thread started about salt mixes how about everyone chime in with their experiences with brands and preferrence?

Started with a brand in a yellow box. Can't be asked to remember the name. Worked well for starting the tank. The box lived under the kitchen sink for a month or so and when I finally checked back it had water spoilage. Tossed it.

Seachem Reef. Using it. I don't have enough experience yet to comment.

[Kingfish]

Seachem makes superior supplements to kent. There I said it. The seachem line is great and I love it. The products have been used and tested for about a decade. Their salt however is less than a year old. I believe that in time, they will refine their salt mix, but currently i am not impressed. I have used a total of 4 x 160 gallon buckets and had consistently low alk, as well as sediment at the bottom of my mixing drum.

Additionally, on one bucket, I experienced precipitation on the walls of the container. Once it has used in the tank, all was great, polyp extension etc. Some minor diatoms occured after a 33% water change.

[thedude]

I didn't like Seachem Reefsalt at all. I experienced extremely high borate alkalinity levels which my corals did not appreciate.

[caferacermike]

d.  I have used a total of 4 x 160 gallon buckets and had consistently low alk, as well as sediment at the bottom of my mixing drum.

Additionally, on one bucket, I experie

You too? I noticed it for the first time tonight. I couldn't figure out for the life of me how leftover bits could be in the bottom of my new trashcan. I had used my setup 4 times and I knew it was squeeky clean when I started. I was wondering where all the solid bits came from.

So maybe my little bit of tank ugly is coming from my water changes? Who'd have thunk?

[Enigma13]

I have also been using the SeaChem ReefSalt due to my love for SeaChem supplements (for which Brian is responsible ). I have had exactly the same experience as Brian. My reservoir always has a residue on the bottom and I have had a much harder time keeping my alk up than when Brian was bringing my water (using Oceanic I think).

That said, I was having some problems with cyano before the SeaChem reef salt and the cyano has now totally gone away. That may also be the result of the tank aging so I don't want to give too much credit to the salt. Growth and health of my corals has been satisfactory if not excellent with the SeaChem.

I just finished up a bucket and will be getting more salt this weekend. SeaChem's page says that they have already reformulated the salt (new formula should just be hitting stores, came out about a month ago) so I am thinking about giving it a whirl again. It wasn't bad, and I don't feel like switching after just one bucket. If the new formula does not correct any of the problems that existed with the old I probably will not buy again. Don't know whether I will go back to Oceanic or to Tropic Marin.

[GKarshens]

I use Tropic Marin Pro. I was discussing it with the rep at MACNA and he said to make sure that you never let your mixing get over 1.030. Once it does the calcium will crystalize and not be usuable anymore. Maybe that is what is happening to you guys. That maybe why you are seeing sediment.

[Enigma13]

I doubt that I am ending up higher than 1.030. I try to stay around 1.025 and if anything sometimes I end up a little lower (~1.023).

[mojo]

Interesting that I.O. was considered the worst salt. In polls conducted on Reef Central, I.O. is clearly the most popular brand. I've been using it in my tank for the past year and I've had no cyano to speak of. That being said, since I don't run a calcium reactor, I plan on changing to Tropic Marin (not Pro). I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this decision based on the principle that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', but maybe I'll get even better coral growth with a different salt?

Mike

[caferacermike]

I'm wondering if IO is preferred because of the almost $20 price difference between it and "higher" qaulity salts? I've hear dmany times that IO is great for fish only but is missing essential minerals and such that you will need to make up with suplements. I was told that Seachem and Tropic Marin salts are awesome if you plane to do frequent water changes in that you shouldn't need to supplemant.

Only what I've heard not based upon my experience.

[JimD]

I use Reef Crystals and have been for several years with great success, works for me!

[reefman]

JimD,

Is Reef Crystals the brand name?

Stephen

[dark8nge1]

Reef Crystals is the product name, its made by aquarium systems the same company that makes IO. I use it too and have no problems with it. I like it much more than the Oceanic I use to use.

[reefman]

Thanks! Still learning the lingo.

Stephen

[xcreonx]

It just seems suspect to me that they would create all this hubbub about how bad IO is and how good Red Sea is, etc. without any conclusive evidence. They even say in their presentation that they don't have enough data yet. Now everyone at RC and the other boards are freakin out about their salt and those of us who've used IO for YEARS with no issues are second-guessing ourselves. I just think it's a little irresponsible for someone we all are supposed to listen to and view as a leading figure in the hobby to create this hysteria without conclusive facts to back it up. If it turns out IO is terrible, and the 'proof' is available, I would consider switching. Knowing a little and claiming alot is always trouble.

[Kingfish]

I said this before, but i'll say it in a more controversial way; Borneman's salt study sucks, and is not that applicable to a reef. The study should be called: How various salt mixes effect small tanks with virtually no live rock. Live rock introduces so many chemical and biological factors that are not taken into consideration in this study.

The biggest flaw that i see in this experiment is that the test aquariums are two 48" 55g tanks divided into 4 cubes with 48" light bulbs over the top. Fluorescent bulbs are much more intense in the center than at the ends. So, the cubes in the center recieve more light and may have shown higher algae growth rates.

Plus, it is irresponsible for any scientist to post inconclusive results from a study that isn't even finished.

(I am still switching to tropic marin though)

Gosh i'm such a hippocrit.

[GKarshens]

I don't think I would really trust anything from someone who admits he doesn't do water changes. He is the only "expert" I have heard that doesn't recommend water changes. On the opposite end of the spectrum is Anthony Calfo who said he does 95% changes almost weekly.

[caferacermike]

GK very interesting points you make. I had this same convo with another member that made it to Macna. Was telling me about the 95% water changes. My jaw dropped. But a good point was made, if you want to export nutrients just drain it all out.

So here is my contreversial (flame away) question from a novice salt aquarist, what would it matter what brand of salt mix you use if you never do water changes? Once you set up the tank the elements of the mix will be used up by the inhabitants and then you'll be supplementing to keep the levels in check. You could use the worst salt mix but stabilize it with chemicals every week. I'm just wondering why someone would go through the troubles of "testing" salt mixes but then not recommend water changes. I'm stumped.

[Crab Rangoon]

Nothing particularly against any other salts, but I will stick with Tropic Marin on my personal tank. I use anything from SeaChem Marine Salt, to Instant Ocean, to Tropic Marin in my room mates tanks, whichever he feels like picking up when we run out. At the store, we use Instant Ocean only, but I cant say that we are happy across the board with it, but it works out to be the best value for selling pre-mixed saltwater, as most salt producers simply dont have a cheap packed bulk quantity of their products like IO does, and buying salt in buckets just isn't good bang for buck comparatively. We are about to start mixing our 2nd reservoir with Tropic Marin as there is a store use large bag of that available on the market, so we will have 2 mixes to offer for sale.

Also, tomorrow I should get the pictures that we took @ MACNA, containing many of the slides from Borneman's powerpoint presentation of the sea salt tests. I'll upload them to my photobucket account and post them here if you'd like.

Not gonna swear by this (just going off the top of my head), but in no particular order, the Red Sea, Tropic Marin, and Reef Crystals seemed to be most okay across the board with the testing done in the presentation? We mostly sell IO and Oceanic because they are bread and butter, and people who've used them for years are rather hard to convert, where-as newer people to the hobby quite avidly jump towards the SeaChem & Tropic Marin salts, as well as the Red Sea variety we are going to start carrying.

On another note, Tropic Marin (going by what their rep was discussing with me) has pharmaceutical grade ingredients in it. Other salt companies, seemingly trying to sound like part of the same wagon, dub their product scientific grade salts, though no "scientific grade" ingredients exist. Not to further toot TM's horn (but more to educate the public on little known facts), but many salt's will list the 70-some-odd elements of natural sea water on the packaging; but if you read the fine print, you'll notice that they say the salt contains the "essential/necessary elements," which is only a portion of those listed from natural sea water. Tropic Marin is the only salt on the market, so to speak, that comes complete with all the same make-up as natural sea water (from what I understood).

Edit: Mike, to address your question of using any given salt for initial set-up, and then doing nothing but supplementation from there-on-out, I'd say start with a quality salt. I care as much what things are ADDED to the salt for the health of the tank as I do what's purposely REMOVED from the salt for the health of the tank. Make sure to use something high grade and routinely proven to be free of phosphate, at the very least.

Brian: on the controversy of his experiment, I can't say that I would call any experiment done with liverock included by any means controlled. Not to stir anything up, as I'll be the first to say you're more knowledgable than I on such subjects, but with liverock varying in density of life (both in varieties and populations of each) I think it'd be very hard to stock each tank with the same life forms, and with the same amount of them. I wont say that his tests were end-all-be-all conclusive on which salts to use and not to use, but I think it gave a good idea of which salt's will give a more positive or negative start to a tank, as some of those salts clearly supported algae more than others did, though there wasn't a diverse population of algae controlling organisms. I think the thing that irked me the absolute MOST about his experiment was the way he did the water changes. It was as if he started with a clean slate each time, cleaning a large amount of the algae in the tank off at each change, which I think skewed the results quite a bit.