I hate dosing...

[jestep]

So dosing is the current bane of reef keeping for me. I lost a ton of coral about 5 months ago due to some faulting dosing pumps which caused some nasty alk problems. There was some user negligence in there on my part, due to moving, but it was mainly caused by the broken pump.

Ideally, I would like someone to invent an accurate ALK and CA probes and I can automate the whole thing and not worry about it. Not possible, but we can dream.

One thing that I can't stand about most peristaltic dosing pumps is they aren't very consistent, and most are unable to deliver an actual metered dose. It's run for some arbitrary amount of time and hope that the volumetric rate doesn't drastically change over time. Yes you're theoretically testing at the same time, but in a multi-variable system it isn't always apparent what is causing an instability. Metered dosing pumps are extremely expensive so I think I can settle for an accurate volumetric pumps.

But, looking for the most reliable method of dosing that I can find.

Currently looking at the Neptune DOS, stupid name, and it's pretty pricey for a 2 pump system. I love the fact it uses stepping motors instead of the crappy DC brushless ones that almost all dosing setups have. Supposedly there will be a feedback mechanism where we can enter alk and ca measurement directly into the apex interface and it will adjust dosing over time. This alone seems to put it way ahead of anything else on the market.

Is anyone planning on using the neptune dosing system or other high end dosers, vertex libra, GHL profilux. I hate to spend such a crazy amount on a dosing system, but losing just a few SPS could pretty much pay for one in a single shot.

[victoly]

I love (literally) my apex, and I don't know that I would trust it to autocalculate my dosing regime. Seems like a huge risk for them to take to build that functionality in.

I've been very happy with my bubble magus. I don't know how accurate the motors are, but I rarely have to adjust after i got my dosing quantities set up.

[jestep]

I love (literally) my apex, and I don't know that I would trust it to autocalculate my dosing regime. Seems like a huge risk for them to take to build that functionality in.

I don't think it was intended to fully automate it, more like make minor adjustments, or maybe just recommendations after re-reading, once you get mostly dialed in.

From their description:

The #1 reason people purchase a dosing system for their aquariums is for consistent and easy dosing of 2-part solutions (calcium and alkalinity) to their reef tanks. The DŌS wizards in Apex Fusion take this to the next level by integrating a feedback loop from your water testing to make suggestions to fine tune the amount you dose each day. Simply put in your tank size and after a few days of entering testing results, it will help you refine your dosing amounts for the demand of your particular aquarium. No more guessing. No more fooling with the timings.

[FarmerTy]

I'm waiting for that day too Jestep. Throw in a nitrate and phosphate probe too and call it a day.

I seem to remember my 2-part dosing days with a peristaltic pump to be more troublesome than what I am dealing with now with the CaRX. It may be just memory bias but I only have to adjust my CaRX every once in awhile when everything is steady and replace the media and CO2 twice a year.

Adjustments are easily made with my Apex pH control for the solenoid.

[BBMarlin]

I’m with you on this, I sure wish there was an easier way. I lost a ton of SPS a year ago due to a pin hole in one of my santoprene hoses. Now I check the output of ALK weekly during my maintenance. I don’t see how APEX will be any better unless they actually measure ml into the tank.

-brett

[jestep]

I'm waiting for that day too Jestep. Throw in a nitrate and phosphate probe too and call it a day.

I seem to remember my 2-part dosing days with a peristaltic pump to be more troublesome than what I am dealing with now with the CaRX. It may be just memory bias but I only have to adjust my CaRX every once in awhile when everything is steady and replace the media and CO2 twice a year.

Adjustments are easily made with my Apex pH control for the solenoid.

I may have to go that route. I have a fully automated CO2 system that I'm not using on my FW tank anymore. Just need a reactor to re-purpose it to the SW tank. Don't you need 2 probes for that though?

I’m with you on this, I sure wish there was an easier way. I lost a ton of SPS a year ago due to a pin hole in one of my santoprene hoses. Now I check the output of ALK weekly during my maintenance. I don’t see how APEX will be any better unless they actually measure ml into the tank.

-brett

The way I interpret it is that you would put the alk and ca measurements into the apex every few days or probably every week once you get stable. It would either suggest or change the daily dosing to compensate for over or under depletion. Essentially, once you get to a constant level, it would remove all of the manual calculating and dosing rate changes. Obviously this wouldn't help for a situation like yours or if one of the dosing pumps stops.

The stepping motors are a huge deal though. They should last many times what a normal DC motor would last. There's a few other dosers that use stepping motors in the $500 - $800 range for a 2 or 3 pump unit.

[FarmerTy]

Jestep,

Only 1 pH probe is needed for control but it is nice to have the 2nd one to read your tank pH and use that as a fail-safe with your Apex programming in case the ph level drops too low in your tank.

[jestep]

Jestep,

Only 1 pH probe is needed for control but it is nice to have the 2nd one to read your tank pH and use that as a fail-safe with your Apex programming in case the ph level drops too low in your tank.

Actually, the controller has one, so that would go in the reactor, and then just leave the apex in the tank like normal, correct? Tank one is still just for normal measurement unless something goes really wrong.

[FarmerTy]

Yes, correct.

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[Neon Reefer]

Of course one could just ditch the whole expensive unreliable dosing systems and just go salt less! What ? Acetates ! Yes I know not main stream enough, but very easy and reliable. No special equipment needed past an ATO system. The dosing works much like dosing Kaulk but much easier better IME. Been using it two years with very nice results. Is it more expensive ? Well yes and no. Product costs more than salts, but equipment is zero costs. And well coral losses who can even count that up. I utilize a $40 bottle every three month in a 75 G stuffed w/ hard corals. So $`13.34 month or 46 cents a day really too expensive Besides Ca and Alk it also delivers all the major and minor trace as well. Just need to balance the Alk and Mg every so often. Don't knock it till you've tried it. hat's my story and I'm sticking with it =[:>D}

[jestep]

Of course one could just ditch the whole expensive unreliable dosing systems and just go salt less! What ? Acetates ! Yes I know not main stream enough, but very easy and reliable. No special equipment needed past an ATO system. The dosing works much like dosing Kaulk but much easier better IME. Been using it two years with very nice results. Is it more expensive ? Well yes and no. Product costs more than salts, but equipment is zero costs. And well coral losses who can even count that up. I utilize a $40 bottle every three month in a 75 G stuffed w/ hard corals. So $`13.34 month or 46 cents a day really too expensive Besides Ca and Alk it also delivers all the major and minor trace as well. Just need to balance the Alk and Mg every so often. Don't knock it till you've tried it. hat's my story and I'm sticking with it =[:>D}

I hadn't even looked into calcium acetates. Do you use the salifert product? Just briefly looking, I would estimate that one specifically would cost about $1.50 per week for me. That's not an unreasonable cost and the alternative would probably be in the neighborhood of a 10 year payback if including either 2 part or replacement CO2, probes, and media.

[victoly]

You also can't individually tweak alk/ca with acetate. You also get a pH drop when using it. It's kind of like a kalk inverse.

[FarmerTy]

Isn't it usually combined with carbon dosing too? Like vinegar plus kalk in essence? Though you can't separate the carbon dosing from the alk/ca supplementation.

[jestep]

I'm going to try a Ca reactor. Found one on ebay and getting my tank refilled this week.

Whoever is running them, how do you make sure you don't run out of CO2? Running out of CO2 was an issue I had with my FW tank.

[FarmerTy]

My Apex alarms me when the pH in the reactor climbs above a certain setpoint and I just go that day and swap out the container or get it refilled. If I can't go right away, I can typically open up the needle valve a bit more to squeeze out what's left in the bottle and buy me another day.

[Neon Reefer]

Yes it is the Salifert product that I have used for quite a while now. I have had rock solid numbers in my stony 75 G. You will most likely need more than they recommend using if your tank is heavy w/ stonies. No problem though as you can concentrate as much as you need in the ATO. Currently I am dosing 1 ml per gallon per week. My tank runs thru Alk faster than Ca of course so I set the levels of Acetate to keep my Ca @ ~ 425 and I tweek my Alk to stay @ 10 or it will drop slowly over time. In addition to keep my Mg @ 3.5 x my Ca I tweek it weekly as well. I addition I also run in my ATO Salifert Trace for Hard Corals as I do infrequent water changes. As far as pH drop I have never seen any noticeable difference. My pH runs ~8.1 - 8.3 depending on time of day. I love the fact that I have no equipment failures due to salt build up or precipitation onto power heads pumps heaters etc....Just another little bonus. Do not have to worry with the laborite tuning of a Ca reactor. I just drop 80 ml Acetate into the 5 G RO bucket once a week and run a Mg & Alk test from the display and tweek as neded. Takes about 10 minutes and I'm done for the week.

[Neon Reefer]

You also can't individually tweak alk/ca with acetate. You also get a pH drop when using it. It's kind of like a kalk inverse.

Of course one could just ditch the whole expensive unreliable dosing systems and just go salt less! What ? Acetates ! Yes I know not main stream enough, but very easy and reliable. No special equipment needed past an ATO system. The dosing works much like dosing Kaulk but much easier better IME. Been using it two years with very nice results. Is it more expensive ? Well yes and no. Product costs more than salts, but equipment is zero costs. And well coral losses who can even count that up. I utilize a $40 bottle every three month in a 75 G stuffed w/ hard corals. So $`13.34 month or 46 cents a day really too expensive Besides Ca and Alk it also delivers all the major and minor trace as well. Just need to balance the Alk and Mg every so often. Don't knock it till you've tried it. hat's my story and I'm sticking with it =[:>D}

I hadn't even looked into calcium acetates. Do you use the salifert product? Just briefly looking, I would estimate that one specifically would cost about $1.50 per week for me. That's not an unreasonable cost and the alternative would probably be in the neighborhood of a 10 year payback if including either 2 part or replacement CO2, probes, and media.