33 long Zoa Garden

[Sascha D.]

Many filtering options are personal preference. There are great tanks that use GFO and also great ones that don't. Carbon is used for all of the things that Planeden mentioned. Zoanthids and Palythoas are not noxious corals. They fight by stinging. So technically you don't need them to remove toxins from the water, which is mainly secreted by leathers. Running carbon will not lower phosphates, but may raise it if a lot of debris settles in the reactor and begins to decompose.

All corals need phosphates to grow. It's food. That's what all of those polyps and mouths are trying to get. However, I wouldn't purposely raise my phosphates for that reason. I just wouldn't actively try to lower them unless you have cyano present.

Victoly is a genius and he says keep both. Can't go wrong with following a genius!

[subsea]

I'm planning on running phosban anyway and may even pull the skimmer as I have been told zoas like some yuckyness to the water.

Be careful. Skimmers and Phosban do different things. A protein skimmer remove dissolved organic compounds from the water column by injecting air in the skimmer chamber. The proteins are more dense than the air and take a ride up the tube and into the collection cup. Phosban and GFO are types of chemical filtration that attracts phosphate molecules. Here is a link to an article written by Randy Holmes called Iron Oxide Hydroxide (GFO) Phosphate Binders.

In short, Phosban removes phosphate on the molecular level and won't remove DOCs. Skimmers remove DOCs before they turn into excess phosphate and won't remove PO4 molecules.

When thinking about skimming and DOC, I considered nitrate as the main byproduct that would be prevented. As in anything there are exceptions. When you feed biopellets, bacteria absorb both nitrate and phosphate. With aggressive skimming, the bacteria are removed which accounts for reduction in both nitrate and phosphate. I do not think that your Seaclone skimmer will remove much if any phosphate. Considering the fast growth rate of zoas, there could easily be enough nutrient recycling into the coral biomass that you would not need a skimmer or a Phosban reactor. It is a "Question of Balance". The reason that I bring this up is because your original post said "low tech".

Laissez la bonne temps roulee,

Patrick

[victoly]

Many filtering options are personal preference. There are great tanks that use GFO and also great ones that don't. Carbon is used for all of the things that Planeden mentioned. Zoanthids and Palythoas are not noxious corals. They fight by stinging. So technically you don't need them to remove toxins from the water, which is mainly secreted by leathers. Running carbon will not lower phosphates, but may raise it if a lot of debris settles in the reactor and begins to decompose.

All corals need phosphates to grow. It's food. That's what all of those polyps and mouths are trying to get. However, I wouldn't purposely raise my phosphates for that reason. I just wouldn't actively try to lower them unless you have cyano present.

Victoly is a genius and he says keep both. Can't go wrong with following a genius!

Not sure if sarcasm or truthful, but I choose to go with truthful.

[Jmvanness]

I'm not sure what a reactor is. I have just been putting the phosban and the carbon in mesh bags in the sump or in this case the hob filter.

@patrick... I do consider this low tech. It's lights, a skimmer and power heads. I imagine it could be lower tech though. Lol.

[Planeden]

a reactor is a container that has your stuff in it with water forced through it by a pump of some sort.

edit - your HOB filter is sort of a reactor i guess. not quite like having a bag just in the water, but may not be as efficient as a canister reactor. or it may be. i don't know.

[subsea]

A reactor forces all the water to pass thru resin, carbon or phosphate resin. When media bags are placed in an open sump it is not very effective. Depending on the flow path with the mesh bag in HOB will determine how effective it will be. In past days, I put media bag at top of HOB return to tank. It floated up and blocked the return weir. I overflowed half of a 55G tank onto an old shag carpet. At the time, I was working offshore 14/14. When I came home a week later, I had to deal with an angry Cajun wife.

Patrick

[Jmvanness]

a reactor is a container that has your stuff in it with water forced through it by a pump of some sort.

edit - your HOB filter is sort of a reactor i guess. not quite like having a bag just in the water, but may not be as efficient as a canister reactor. or it may be. i don't know.

Gotcha, I'll do some research and experimentation and see what works best.

A reactor forces all the water to pass thru resin, carbon or phosphate resin. When media bags are placed in an open sump it is not very effective. Depending on the flow path with the mesh bag in HOB will determine how effective it will be. In past days, I put media bag at top of HOB return to tank. It floated up and blocked the return weir. I overflowed half of a 55G tank onto an old shag carpet. At the time, I was working offshore 14/14. When I came home a week later, I had to deal with an angry Cajun wife.

Patrick

Mon Dieu, Ce n'est pas une bonne chose, mon frère. Une femme acadienne en colère contre quelqu'un est une femme dangereuse! Ma grand-mère a habité en Louisiane depuis quelques années et a dévelopé une certaine acadiennité. Thankfully, I don't have one to deal with. lol.

[Sascha D.]

A good point has been brought up; whether to use a reactor or not. Like Planeden said, a reactor is a chamber where you put media. Water is pumped from the bottom of the chamber, through the media, and pushed out of the top. Using a reactor is referred to as active filtering, while using a bag of media is referred to as passive filtration. Active filtering is substantially more effective than passive filtration for several reasons. The main reason is because the water flowing through the media forces contact and makes the filtration more effective. Using passive filtration, like using a filter bag, the media touching the outside has the most contact and the center has very little. The other reason people don't use filter bags today like they did ten years ago is because they clog and/or trap particles in them, which decay and raise nitrates.

Reactors look just like your Seaclone. They're not the prettiest things in the world. They're also known to leak from the top and bottom and require a pump of some sort to power them. Personally I don't trust media bags. Especially after what Patrick said above! I also don't trust reactors. There is too that can go wrong with them to hang them on your tank. If you don't install a sump then I wouldn't risk it.

[Jmvanness]

I'm considering building a reactor for my 50 based on this info, but yeah I think I'll skip it on the 33.

[Jmvanness]

Got my lights today!

[Nano Reefer Ky]

Looking good! Nice and bright.

[Planeden]

wow, that is a lot of light.

(observation and awe, not a judgment)

[Jmvanness]

I turned down the blues and put the whites on for 4 hours a day. It is certainly a lot of light even with only 25% on each channel.

[subsea]

A good point has been brought up; whether to use a reactor or not. Like Planeden said, a reactor is a chamber where you put media. Water is pumped from the bottom of the chamber, through the media, and pushed out of the top. Using a reactor is referred to as active filtering, while using a bag of media is referred to as passive filtration. Active filtering is substantially more effective than passive filtration for several reasons. The main reason is because the water flowing through the media forces contact and makes the filtration more effective. Using passive filtration, like using a filter bag, the media touching the outside has the most contact and the center has very little. The other reason people don't use filter bags today like they did ten years ago is because they clog and/or trap particles in them, which decay and raise nitrates.

Reactors look just like your Seaclone. They're not the prettiest things in the world. They're also known to leak from the top and bottom and require a pump of some sort to power them. Personally I don't trust media bags. Especialhly after what Patrick said above! I also don't trust reactors. There is too that can go wrong with them to hang them on your tank. If you don't install a sump then I wouldn't risk it.

To expound on a DIY reactor that works well, I will say that it is an effective combination of active and passive filtration. Instead of a pump pushing water from the bottom to the top, this design uses gravity from the top down. I like it because it conserves energy by using gravity from display tank to the sump and it does not require an additional pump. When the media begins to plug up, the water overflows the top of the column and drains into the sump. I make mine out of 4" PVC. To prevent media from passing thru, I use fiberglass or nylon screen material from the hardware store. I use a 4" PVC collar as a template and cut out a circle from any flat plastic container. This supports screening and media and requires holes drilled to pass water . The bottom half of collar requires holes drilled for water to exit the PVC column. This allows column to rest securely on sump bottom.

It works for me.

Patrick

PS. All passive and active reactors will trap detritus. The overflow from the top is the indicator to that fact. While continuing to perform active filtration, it also indicates the extent of plugging by the extent of bypass overflowing the column.

[Jmvanness]

I like the diy idea... I could split the overflow letting half go through the reactor and the other half through the filter sock. I'll have to look into this some more. This would be for my 50 though as the 33 is not using an overflow.

[Jmvanness]

Thoughts on more zoas. More for my own memory than anything else, unless you happen to have a frag you'd part with.

24k, Alpha and Omega, Black hole sun, Blond blue eyed ******, Candy apple pinks, Devil's Armor, Electric Skywalker, Electric Strawberry, Hallelujah Mountains, Hell's Angels, Jackie O's, Jiggy Dazzlers, Pulsars, The Shiznit, Yodas