HELP: I have too much flow?

[bananags]

I built the second sump already, but i can't stop the micro bubble. The bubble trap does nothing for me.

I can't seem to stop this, the only way i can fix this is to put both of the drain and output of skimmer into a filter sock.

Tank 125gal, sump is made out of a 29gal glass tank.

Return pump is Iwaki WMD40RXLT rate at 850gph (at 10ft),

my return is 1" pipe at 6 ft height, so I used a 10ft rate to account for the two 90deg bend

What do you think about the 850gph return rate through a 29gal? I must have way to much flow. The drain from the tank is 1.5" PVC (it's like 2" dia) i have a valve that I can turn that down.

I do have a close loop for water movement.

is 5x turn over per hr for the sump normal for a reef tank? got to get a new pump now....

or build a bigger sump, I heard Craig will build custom sump, what is his login name?

Edited January 30, 2008 by bananags

[Headless_donkey]

That is a TON of water through a 29 gallon. I think I bigger sump would suit you best. It would allow for more error when the power goes out.

5x turnover is a good number to shoot for. You are looking right now at almost 30x. Your skimmer barely has time to grab any water. The bubbles don't even have time to float to the top.

I know this sounds crazy, but I am SURE someone would trade you for a smaller pump if that is something your interested in. I personally think you should just go bigger with the sump.

[classclownfish]

For comparison. I am running a 70g with a 29g sump/fuge and my return pump only does just shy of 600gph.

That is a TON of water through a 29 gallon. I think I bigger sump would suit you best. It would allow for more error when the power goes out.

5x turnover is a good number to shoot for. You are looking right now at almost 30x. Your skimmer barely has time to grab any water. The bubbles don't even have time to float to the top.

I know this sounds crazy, but I am SURE someone would trade you for a smaller pump if that is something your interested in. I personally think you should just go bigger with the sump.

[SoonerFan]

Everybody oversizes their pump. Can you imagine the money saved on electricity and initial pump purchase?

I have a 225 Gallon tank with about 40 gallons or so in sump. I have a Panworld that does 1100 gph (265 X 5 = 1325) and I still could have done smaller. I have to throttle the pump back!!

Lee

Edited January 30, 2008 by SoonerFan

[bananags]

hee hee, thanks guys. you just confirmed my gut feeling that I am putting too much water through the sump.

I am looking to get a Panworld 50X suppose to be iwaki 30 equivalent. I think that will give me a about 5x turn over.

save me some electricity also ;-) yay

i'd like to have a bigger sump also, but space is a problem for me for a 4ft long 125gal tank.

I would need someone to custom make one for me or when time permit I'll build another out of acrylic instead, using existing glass tank just won't do it for me. But as of now, after building the 2nd sump, I rather pay someone that know what they are doing and make me a sump, with a new born in the house, my wife is not very happy with me keep running out and adjusting the sump.

Right now , have a refuge and an Euro Reef RS180 in a 29gal sump tank, really tight space, I maximized the space in the sump as much as I can already, but I imagine it will work if I can can cut the flow rate in 1/2 or so.

I wished the tank/stand would be longer, but too late now.

Edited January 30, 2008 by bananags

[classclownfish]

Eeek! each to their own of course. But I never throttle pumps down. Worst case I tee it back into the sump but throtteling down the outp put of a return pump can wear down the pump much faster and also causes excess heat build up becuase the pump is working harder. Actually for my 280g I'm specing out right now I am looking at just using dual small pumps for redundancy but also to minimize headloss from taking a big return pump and splitting it to two returns.

Everybody oversizes their pump. Can you imagine the money saved on electricity and initial pump purchase?

I have a 225 Gallon tank with about 40 gallons or so in sump. I have a Panworld that does 1100 gph (265 X 5 = 1325) and I still could have done smaller. I have to throttle the pump back!!

Lee

[bananags]

I also have a T back to sump on my sump output, but the problem is the sump is so small, and too much water movement, the water from the T connection run right back in the pump in no time, in combination, it generates a lot of micro bubble this way

[classclownfish]

The way I help against this is when I spec out a return pump I make sure I am somewhat conservative. I'd rather be slightly under with my pump and just add a closed loop or add a power head if I need more total flow in my tank. Also the flow from my over flow into my sump/fuge is split. 25% of the total flow goes into my fuge (to keep fuge flow low) and 75% of the flow goes into my tank with my skimmer. Using this method I currently do not have to tee or reduce anything in regards to my return pump.

I also have a T back to sump on my sump output, but the problem is the sump is so small, and too much water movement, the water from the T connection run right back in the pump in no time, in combination, it generates a lot of micro bubble this way

[chatfouz]

if the sump is too small there is a way around it. for the T back use long tubing. instead of 6 inches back to the sump, use like 10 ft coiled back to the sump. this way all the head eats up the energy.

probably be a lot cheaper than building a new sump

[KarenM]

Craig's logon I believe is ckimble. My tank is a 4' 120 gal. I'm not sure how many gal the sump is that he just installed for me, but it's working out nicely.

[bananags]

here is my sump, i ordered a Panworld 50PX just now, hope this will work.

this is picture before install.

water from tank enter the top left area, travel to the right into skimmer input, run back to pump return chamber, i thought this would work, but so far still not working right, i think a lower flow rate will make it work much better

comment welcome. maybe get idea on how to fix or for the next sump built

Edited January 31, 2008 by bananags

[Entropy]

IMO you need a bigger sump regardless of what you end up doing with your flow rate. I am running a 55g sump on my 125g and I would have liked it to be bigger. I run about 350gph though my sump (Rio2100) and needless to say there are zero bubbles even if I remove the filter sock and bubble trap.

[Headless_donkey]

Is that whole where the return pump goes? If so I would go with a much bigger return area. Evaporation, is going to empty that pretty fast. I see you have an ATO, but if something goes wrong with it, it doesn't leave much room for error.

Also, a three baffle bubble trap instead of the section with what I think is a sponge shelf in between the skimmer and return would be more effective. <---not the best sentence ever written!

You could also try to incorporate a bubble tower for the drain from the tank.

My gut feeling is you have some great ideas and nice implantation, but just need a larger space in which to work. If you took your basic design increase the size by 2 or 3 times and put in some bubble traps I think you would be happy.

I have to say nice skimmer!

Can this sump take the water needed when you turn of your return?

[classclownfish]

I know when working on my 29g sump I went very simple. I used to do wet/dry and decided going all wet with a good skimmer worked just as well for me. I didn't use a sponge (they can be a nit factory if not maintained so to min maintanance I just kept it from the equation), and no bubble traps. I'm not against bubble traps. In fact when I set up my 280g I'm sure I'll use them on the big sump for that. But since I was converting an old tank I wanted to conserve space and also I'm not quite the master DIY yet. After a couple errors while trying to sillicone and hold in the bubble trap baffles I decided to go with my gut and put mirrored toothed baffles (with a split flow going to each side and the return pump in the middle chamber) and with a conservative (but not too low) flow rate through the tank. I haven't had any issues with microbubbles though if I did, a sponge filter over the intake of the return filter should fix that (at least in my setup), YMMV. I'll be posting pictures soon becuase I'll be re-doing my setup a bit since my current sump/fuge got cracked when I moved :-(

Is that whole where the return pump goes? If so I would go with a much bigger return area. Evaporation, is going to empty that pretty fast. I see you have an ATO, but if something goes wrong with it, it doesn't leave much room for error.

Also, a three baffle bubble trap instead of the section with what I think is a sponge shelf in between the skimmer and return would be more effective. <---not the best sentence ever written!

You could also try to incorporate a bubble tower for the drain from the tank.

My gut feeling is you have some great ideas and nice implantation, but just need a larger space in which to work. If you took your basic design increase the size by 2 or 3 times and put in some bubble traps I think you would be happy.

I have to say nice skimmer!

Can this sump take the water needed when you turn of your return?

[ckimble]

YGPM

[bananags]

thank guys/gals for all the suggestion and comment.

I agree that I should get a bigger sump anyway. the existing sump can handle power outage with about 2-3 gal volume to spare. But space is so tight now. no room for error or time for the bubble to free itself to the surface.

I also checked with Craig on making a new sump (a bigger one), hopefully, he will get back with me soon.

for now, I'll try to switch the pump out to get a lower flow rate first, see if that can work.

I need to think about a new design for the sump, I know I wanted an option to run sponge at least, to keep the water clean. For me,

clean or replace the sponge is much easier than a filter sock.

But other than that I hate micro bubble

time for me to research on what are the best sump with refugium set up =)

Edited February 1, 2008 by bananags