Calling all LED nerds!

[subsea]

For anyone wondering whether or not LED's are worth the cost, I have found a calculation page that will help you decide. I did not create it.

Reef LED Aquarium Light Calculator

Interesting. If I were to switch to a reefbreeders or an evergrow 36" controllable fixture that would replace my aquatic life 4 bulb T5HO if would cost around $500, and with bulb changes and electricity factored in it would take me 10 years to recoup the cost of the new fixture. Aside from a bit more par, doesn't seem worth the cost. Better fixtures would likely nevr be recouped as they would be obselete by the time I made tha money back. Lol. Now...I know many of us are in the hobby to keep healthy and amazing looking livestock, not to save money. Which is why a lot of people still use MH. Just an interesting tidbit that kind of negates the "cost saving" argument of switching to LEDs.

In short...if you're gonna switch. Don't do it to save money, because by the time you will have saved that money, you'll be looking to buy something new long before that. Do it for better performance

No one has shown me better performance with LED. When enough research is done to show specific spectrum required to grow macro and coral then I would expect performance enhancement. Because LED are mono specific with respect to spectrum, the need to crowd in many different colors arises. Few scientist, even fewer hobbiest, are knowledgable enough about the complexities of different coral spectrum requirement at different phases in the growth of coral. In the greenhouse industry, much money is spent on research and development to light spectrum. Not so in our hobby.

My choice to use LED on some tanks is a combination of heat reduction and a streamlined appearance to the top of the tank. From the perspective of covering all spectrum that may be required by different corals and macro, T5 can not be touched. During the winter time with reduced sunlight in greenhouse grow out tanks, I use MH on moving rails. My objection to MH was large percentage of heat given off. During winter in my outside greenhouse, I need this heat at night to offset heat loss to the night time. The traveling rails eliminate the need for many single point light source fixtures. If you can stand the heat and the extra electrical consumption, MH provide extraordinary lighting effects and growth.

Viva la difference,

Patrick

[Bpb]

Had to check again. I forgot to submit the modified kwh. I'm paying $0.12. So, for the cheapest option to light my tank with dimmable LEDs capable of growing sps anywhere in the tank, it would take 4 years to pay it off and would save me $1,400 if I ran them the full 50,000 hours. Significantly better but still not good enough to take the plunge. That's roughly $10 a month in savings. Not enough to notice in the long run. Not knocking LEDs. They look fantastic for the most part and I love how controllable they are and how cool they run. If money was no issue I'd go MH, then led, then t5.

[victoly]

For anyone wondering whether or not LED's are worth the cost, I have found a calculation page that will help you decide. I did not create it.

Reef LED Aquarium Light Calculator

Interesting. If I were to switch to a reefbreeders or an evergrow 36" controllable fixture that would replace my aquatic life 4 bulb T5HO if would cost around $500, and with bulb changes and electricity factored in it would take me 10 years to recoup the cost of the new fixture. Aside from a bit more par, doesn't seem worth the cost. Better fixtures would likely nevr be recouped as they would be obselete by the time I made tha money back. Lol. Now...I know many of us are in the hobby to keep healthy and amazing looking livestock, not to save money. Which is why a lot of people still use MH. Just an interesting tidbit that kind of negates the "cost saving" argument of switching to LEDs.

In short...if you're gonna switch. Don't do it to save money, because by the time you will have saved that money, you'll be looking to buy something new long before that. Do it for better performance

No one has shown me better performance with LED. When enough research is done to show specific spectrum required to grow macro and coral then I would expect performance enhancement. Because LED are mono specific with respect to spectrum, the need to crowd in many different colors arises. Few scientist, even fewer hobbiest, are knowledgable enough about the complexities of different coral spectrum requirement at different phases in the growth of coral. In the greenhouse industry, much money is spent on research and development to light spectrum. Not so in our hobby.

My choice to use LED on some tanks is a combination of heat reduction and a streamlined appearance to the top of the tank. From the perspective of covering all spectrum that may be required by different corals and macro, T5 can not be touched. During the winter time with reduced sunlight in greenhouse grow out tanks, I use MH on moving rails. My objection to MH was large percentage of heat given off. During winter in my outside greenhouse, I need this heat at night to offset heat loss to the night time. The traveling rails eliminate the need for many single point light source fixtures. If you can stand the heat and the extra electrical consumption, MH provide extraordinary lighting effects and growth.

Viva la difference,

Patrick

Agree. The best you can hope for with LEDs is to approximate T-5/MH (which are slightly superior for growth/coloration IMO) at lower energy consumption and heat creation rate.

[lenver]

I had the same realization, I currently have a quad T5 setup in my 150 tall tank, when I get more into SPS I know I need to get more lighting in there, I was thinking of buying a strip of LED's from Build my LED, and then in a few months getting a second one, but that's $600 dlls, and if I just buy another dual T5 is about $60, and as it is right now I got 2 SPS corals one is an ORA green birdsnest I think and all it's polyps are out and it looks awesome, the other one looks nice and seems to be happy.

So I will most likely just buy another dual T5 and if needed I'll just get a refrigeration unit for the tank.

[Sascha D.]

I'm in the situation where I need to upgrade in order to keep the corals that I want and need to figure out which lighting system is the most effective.

Jmvanness and I have the same size tank:

150g (48x24x31)

I have an enclosed wooden canopy, so heat is a consideration. Not sure about Jm.

We need a lighting combination ranging from 200w of LED's to 400w of T5's and MH.

BMLED 70w are $275 each. Three are recommended.

Coralife 4x54w HO T5 fixture is $227 on sale. Replacement bulbs are $60 per year.

Hamilton 250w MH pendant fixture is $225 on sale. Replacement bulbs are $45 each or $90 per year.

Valid Combinations IMO:

Three LED strips = 210w for $825 and no replacement bulb price

One LED strip + One T5 fixture = 286w for $502 and $60 per year

One LED strip + MH = 220w for $525 and $90 per year

Two T5's = 432w for $454 and $120 per year

One T5 + MH = 466w for $452 and $150 per year

The problem is I don't know how to compare them besides looking at the wattage and price.

[lenver]

There is a display tank in Aquadome that's I believe a 150 tall also and it has a T5 fixture with 8 bulbs, this is the same that was tested by BML on their video but I did see that the T5's were not actually replaced, that tank looks awesome and right now I think for me that's the way I'm going with.

[victoly]

I'm in the situation where I need to upgrade in order to keep the corals that I want and need to figure out which lighting system is the most effective.

Jmvanness and I have the same size tank:

150g (48x24x31)

I have an enclosed wooden canopy, so heat is a consideration. Not sure about Jm.

We need a lighting combination ranging from 200w of LED's to 400w of T5's and MH.

BMLED 70w are $275 each. Three are recommended.

Coralife 4x54w HO T5 fixture is $227 on sale. Replacement bulbs are $60 per year.

Hamilton 250w MH pendant fixture is $225 on sale. Replacement bulbs are $45 each or $90 per year.

Valid Combinations IMO:

Three LED strips = 210w for $825 and no replacement bulb price

One LED strip + One T5 fixture = 286w for $502 and $60 per year

One LED strip + MH = 220w for $525 and $90 per year

Two T5's = 432w for $454 and $120 per year

One T5 + MH = 466w for $452 and $150 per year

The problem is I don't know how to compare them besides looking at the wattage and price.

Wattage is going to be a pretty crummy comparison (unless you're talking about total consumption of energy vs light output).LEDs out out much more light per energy consumed, which is amplified by less heat output. A better metric would be par/$ at your desired depth (assuming you get the rest of the items you might desire: color spectrum, controllability, etc.). There needs to be a light rental place online where you can try out lights before you buy them.

[Sascha D.]

Wattage is going to be a pretty crummy comparison (unless you're talking about total consumption of energy vs light output).LEDs out out much more light per energy consumed, which is amplified by less heat output. A better metric would be par/$ at your desired depth (assuming you get the rest of the items you might desire: color spectrum, controllability, etc.). There needs to be a light rental place online where you can try out lights before you buy them.

How can I tell what the par would be for a particular lighting system? I mean besides buying them and then measuring with a nifty gadget.

[subsea]

Wattage is going to be a pretty crummy comparison (unless you're talking about total consumption of energy vs light output).LEDs out out much more light per energy consumed, which is amplified by less heat output. A better metric would be par/$ at your desired depth (assuming you get the rest of the items you might desire: color spectrum, controllability, etc.). There needs to be a light rental place online where you can try out lights before you buy them.

How can I tell what the par would be for a particular lighting system? I mean besides buying them and then measuring with a nifty gadget.

Sascha,

I have the same footprint tank as your 150G. My 135G lagoon is 2" shorter. I use an eight bulb T5 greenhouse fixture that cost less than $200 shipped. This included growlight bulbs. I can purchase 4' T5 lamps at $5 each. Spectrum available is 5400, 6400, 10K and UV-A Plus. I replaced four grow light bulbs with actinic bulbs. On my eight bulb T5 fixture, I now have four actinic, two UV-A Plus, and two 6400 kelvin bulbs. I will get PAR numbers later today. From recollection, the lowest PAR was 150. To interpolate data that I took on my 20G 16" tank using 2' rule, if you were to use the 1' for gallon rule then you would need 15' of lamp to produce the same photon density. With the proposed 12', I suggest that the lighting on your tank will be, at best, equivalent in PAR to my readings by a reduced ratio of 12/15. That will give you a definite PAR number that is an approximation for your system.

Patrick

PS. Surface PAR reading is 370

Middle PAR reading is 150

Bottom PAR reading is 100

[victoly]

Wattage is going to be a pretty crummy comparison (unless you're talking about total consumption of energy vs light output).LEDs out out much more light per energy consumed, which is amplified by less heat output. A better metric would be par/$ at your desired depth (assuming you get the rest of the items you might desire: color spectrum, controllability, etc.). There needs to be a light rental place online where you can try out lights before you buy them.

How can I tell what the par would be for a particular lighting system? I mean besides buying them and then measuring with a nifty gadget.

Like you suggested, the only way to actually know is a par meter, or finding someone with similar tank depth and light layout that has posted a measurement.

[subsea]

Glass will be cleaned later.

[lildodoo]

Evergrow makes the reefbreeders lights. I just got in on a group buy for two of the ITO2060's. google evergrow and the item no for specs. Its also available in 36". I posted a link for the group buy thread on here and that also has the specs.

That's more in my price range for sure and they're controllable which I like. How do you like them Janelle?

I have 2 of the Reef Breeders, 32" fixtures over my 150g (36x36x27) and love them them. If you want to swing by to take a look let me know, I am 5 min from RCA.

[subsea]

I have three 4' LED lamps AT 12K on different tanks. If you provide the labor, you can use my PAR meter and get measurements on my 135G lagoon.

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-SlimStar-4-Foot-8-Lamp-High-Output-T5-Fluorescent.asp

This site has much info. This price is 20% higher than when I bought it nine months ago.

This is a superb value. Bulbs cost $5 each.

Patrick

[Sascha D.]

I have three 4' LED lamps AT 12K on different tanks. If you provide the labor, you can use my PAR meter and get measurements on my 135G lagoon.

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-SlimStar-4-Foot-8-Lamp-High-Output-T5-Fluorescent.asp

This site has much info. This price is 20% higher than when I bought it nine months ago.

This is a superb value. Bulbs cost $5 each.

Patrick

That is an excellent resource Patrick!

I was comparing 4x54w fixtures over $300 and I think this beats them out and you get twice the output! I just one one question, what is a 3000k bulb? I would like to achieve a 50/50 look of four 6500k or 10000k bulbs with four actinics.

[victoly]

I have three 4' LED lamps AT 12K on different tanks. If you provide the labor, you can use my PAR meter and get measurements on my 135G lagoon.

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-SlimStar-4-Foot-8-Lamp-High-Output-T5-Fluorescent.asp

This site has much info. This price is 20% higher than when I bought it nine months ago.

This is a superb value. Bulbs cost $5 each.

Patrick

That is an excellent resource Patrick!

I was comparing 4x54w fixtures over $300 and I think this beats them out and you get twice the output! I just one one question, what is a 3000k bulb? I would like to achieve a 50/50 look of four 6500k or 10000k bulbs with four actinics.

3k is yellow yellow yellow starting to head into the reds.

[subsea]

When I tested 6400 kelvin against 3000 kelvin, the PAR value was doubled with the 3K bulb. It is still considered photosynthic active.

Patrick

[Sascha D.]

When I tested 6400 kelvin against 3000 kelvin, the PAR value was doubled with the 3K bulb. It is still considered photosynthic active.

Patrick

I noticed that they don't sell actinics. Are they standard bulbs that I can get from a pet retailer or do I have to special order?

[subsea]

When I tested 6400 kelvin against 3000 kelvin, the PAR value was doubled with the 3K bulb. It is still considered photosynthic active.

Patrick

I noticed that they don't sell actinics. Are they standard bulbs that I can get from a pet retailer or do I have to special order?

I usually get mail order from the doctors foster & smith at $15 each.

[Sascha D.]

When I tested 6400 kelvin against 3000 kelvin, the PAR value was doubled with the 3K bulb. It is still considered photosynthic active.

Patrick

I noticed that they don't sell actinics. Are they standard bulbs that I can get from a pet retailer or do I have to special order?

I usually get mail order from the doctors foster & smith at $15 each.

Thanks. That was what I was thinking as well.