ph help

[madsalt]

So I have been running my tank for quite sometime now and have been doing pretty good. I recently started adding corals, softies, LPS and SPS. I had my water tested and was told my ph was too low. My ph has been around 7.8-7.9 with no problems. I was told that I needed to raise it along with alk and calcium because I am now starting to keep corals. Well it turns out that the only change I made was raising my ph and now I have fish loss. I have seen all the articles and preaching about ph higher.

My question is if my tank is ok at the 7.8-7.9 range will I be ok with my corals? I am very sad about losing some of fish based on LFS advice.

current ph 8.2, alk 10, calcium 450 no ammonia, or nitrites, nitrate about 10

Thanks

[victoly]

How were raising the pH.

[jestep]

I am pretty much completely against messing with ph unless you are doing it in a way that changes it permanently/continuously. Are you dosing anything? Also, how are you performing water changes, and what is the ph of the change water.

At 7.8, I wouldn't do anything unless you are going to start dosing something on a schedule. It's not perfect, but you're better off with something stable IMO than trying to fight ph up to any arbitrary level.

Secondly, ph is going to change throughout the day. As algae are exposed to light, they will consume CO2, which is going to cause the ph to rise. At night the ph is going to go down. It's not uncommon to have measurable swings from day to night. This is another reason why chasing ph is often futile, especially when using a refugium or if you have a lot of CO2 consuming algae.

[madsalt]

I'm dosing powder, well mixed through my sump.

[victoly]

I'm going to echo what jestep said. I would *not* mess with pH. 90% of the time, there is going to be a very normal daily swing in pH of up to 0.3 units. My pH sits around 7.8-7.9 on the low end of the daily swing, and everything is fine. Which store recommended you do this?

Here's a little light reading on pH by the preeminent reef chemistry guy.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/

[Neon Reefer]

A pH of 7.8 IMO is just fine. It is more important to keep your Alkalinity stable and within normal range than it is to chase pH numbers. It is unfortunate that someone gave you some misleading info on the need to raise your pH. pH is best stabilized at 8.1 - 8.2, and this is sometimes accomplished utilizing products like Seachem Reef Builder w/ raises the Alk without raising the pH; however, over time will usually stabilize your pH @ ~ 8.1 -8.2. Seachem also makes a product called Reef Buffer which will raise Alk and pH both. But again this is only a temporary fix and pH is only truly raised by increasing the CO2 exchange. This can be accomplished sometimes as easily as opening a window or by directing the flow of return nozzles or power heads to create tension or ripples across the surface of the DT display tank. In addition the use of a skimmer can greatly increase your CO2 exchange by pulling fresh air into the water. And remember your pH does change during the day / night time activity of the tank. Your pH will be lowest right before the lights come on during the day, and will be highest right before they go off in the evening. Therefore the best way to get a feel of what the pH range of the DT is to take a reading at both times to get the high and the low. It is not uncommon for the pH range of a DT to be as high and low as a point 3 - 4 difference (IE) 7.8 – 8.2. Also when buffering your pH as it seems you were directed to do, be careful not to raise it quickly as this can cause difficulty w/ livestock.

NEON REEFER

[+dapettit]

I would like to address the fish loss. Did you gradually raise the ph overtime or all at once?

Dave-

[madsalt]

I was raising it gradually, reduced the recommended amount by half as well, after testing it seemed like the ph was too high so I watched, the next day it was back down but the fish werent acting right. so I watched them, they seemd very lethargic. I lost 2 female square anthias, scribble rabbit, strawberry pseudochromis and my dragon goby and powder blue tang do not look good. My maroon clowns, yellow watchman goby, coral beauty and scooter blenny all look fine. I was using the seachem reef buffer.

After reading the posts so far, I have to agree that if it isn't broke don't fix it. very sad to have lost the fish, I will stick to making sure my alk and calcium are good, will test ph but not focus on the others unless I see a true reason to mess with the other parameters.

[jestep]

I wouldn't think ph changes would cause this so quickly, but that's a horrible loss. Are the coral all ok?

[madsalt]

well the ph is the only thing I changed, hell the corals look amazing lol. I am going to let my ph stabilize where it decides to stay and then go from there, of course as long as it isn't crazy low or high

[Neon Reefer]

Only suggestion I can make at this point is to switch from Seachem Reef Buffer to Seachem Reef Builder. I have had good luck using this to raise my ALK W/O raising my pH; however, the long term affect is a more stable pH around the 8.1 point. I have found that 1/4 teaspoon per 25 gals will raise dKH by 1/2 poin. So I don't know the capacity of your sump but w/ a DT of 90 G I would imagine you are 100 G+. Therefore 1 teaspoon mixed in a little RODI and slowly added into high flow area should raise your dKH by ~ point five. Before raising dKH make sure your Mg level is at patram as well. I always like to keep at or above 1300ppm, to prevent Alk / Ca precept.